Tram air-conditioning

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don_dunstan Chief Commissioner

Location: Melbourne

I'm not normally one who would start a thread but I felt compelled to after travelling around the inner-East on public transport today on one of the hottest days we've had in Melbourne this summer.  Most of our tram fleet still isn't air-conditioned - however every vehicle from the B-class onwards has been fitted with air-con.  My gripe is that it varies enormously in effectiveness as I noticed today.  

The best (by far) that I travelled on today was a B-class on route 75 - it was practically icy inside and very comfortable despite the heat.  I had a C-class Alstom on route 109 that was 'okay' but not nearly as good at the B (maybe because of the large windows capturing more of the sun).  The worst (by far) were the Siemens D class - I travelled on at least three today and each and every one was unbearably hot inside... almost no noticeable difference between inside and outside of the trams and the worst part is that unlike a Z-class you can't even open a window to get a breeze going as it travels along.  National Express and Siemens obviously didn't do any design modifications for Melbourne summers when they bought them over - disgraceful that for the millions spent on the fleet they wilt in the heat.

How is it that a 20+ year old tram has the best air con by far and the most modern ones are dreadful? 

 
Westernport Assistant Commissioner

Location: Not In Service

The answer is fairly simple actually.

B2s were designed for Melbourne, and the rest of them are overseas rubbish designed to a uniform spec sheet. 

 
pointbar72 Beginner

Location: Emerald Vic

As I driver at Camberwell there is nothing worse than a tram that blows hot air through the A/C units. Passengers rightly complain but I have to roast for up to four hours at a time and the drivers cabin can be more than 10 degrees hotter than it is outside. After many tram sign offs the problem is MONEY. The depot mechanics cant fix them without the inverters that come from overseas and are specific to crappy units that were bought at the lowest price many years ago. When the units start to blow HOT air on a HOT day there is no air circulation on the B's because the windows are locked shut. I now run the tram in if I can't get a change over. Not fair for the service but the only way to get certain individuals to spend the money on the inverters. 

 
bramt Deputy Commissioner

As I driver at Camberwell there is nothing worse than a tram that blows hot air through the A/C units. Passengers rightly complain but I have to roast for up to four hours at a time and the drivers cabin can be more than 10 degrees hotter than it is outside. After many tram sign offs the problem is MONEY. The depot mechanics cant fix them without the inverters that come from overseas and are specific to smeggy units that were bought at the lowest price many years ago. When the units start to blow HOT air on a HOT day there is no air circulation on the B's because the windows are locked shut. I now run the tram in if I can't get a change over. Not fair for the service but the only way to get certain individuals to spend the money on the inverters. 

- pointbar72



Are you talking about Bs only? 

 
pointbar72 Beginner

Location: Emerald Vic

At Camberwell we only have B's and A's. They have recently installed A/C units directly above the drivers cabins in the A's that work so good that your almost pass out from frostbite or not at all. You can open the saloon windows in the A's to get some air circulation for the passengers, better than nothing. I cant tell you anything about the others but some of the drivers at Camberwell are transfers from other depots and the C's apparently have good A/C. Every tram has its pro's and con's. I put good A/C higher than anything. 

 
Chrono Detector Assistant Commissioner

Location: Tram 57/59

Its pretty unacceptable a modern tram can't provide adequate airconditioning, don't get me started with the Siemens D trams, they are nothing but trouble. Even a B2 which is 20 years old is more comfortable and its a joke. Glad the next trams coming aren't imported by Siemens or any overseas manufacturer hopefully.

 
tonyp Chief Commissioner

Location: Shoalhaven

Is the new aircon in the Adelaide Flexitys up to the job? How about the Citadis?

 
Pressman Minister for Railways

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me

Is the new aircon in the Adelaide Flexitys up to the job? How about the Citadis?

- tonyp

We no longer get bitches and moan from the Sadvertiser, so either the AC works ok or they have lost interest  Wink

 
Halo Chief Train Controller

11 of the first batch of Flexis had $1,000,000 plus air-con built for each tram as the factory units were useless. That batch is now good, however they have left the dark window tinting on, so during the night you can,t see outside at all, and during the day passengers crash into each other from both sides of the doors when they open, as they also cant see passengers inside. (Yes we still haven't learned how to wait for alighting passengers)

The second batch are "OK" as I suspect the government had a good smeg about the first batch.

The C2s are also "OK" not brilliant, but bearable.

 
tonyp Chief Commissioner

Location: Shoalhaven

11 of the first batch of Flexis had $1,000,000 plus air-con built for each tram as the factory units were useless. That batch is now good, however they have left the dark window tinting on, so during the night you can,t see outside at all, and during the day passengers crash into each other from both sides of the doors when they open, as they also cant see passengers inside. (Yes we still haven't learned how to wait for alighting passengers) The second batch are "OK" as I suspect the government had a good smeg about the first batch. The C2s are also "OK" not brilliant, but bearable.

- Halo


LOL at the Flexis! Spain gets pretty flamin' hot in summer so I would expect the C2s to be better. One thing I notice they do in Europe to keep the aircon environment reasonable inside is have "door open" buttons on the doors so that if not all doors are required at a stop some stay closed. None of the Adelaide ones have this feature do they?

 
nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: Rubber Tyred Vehicle track design office

11 of the first batch of Flexis had $1,000,000 plus air-con built for each tram as the factory units were useless. That batch is now good, however they have left the dark window tinting on, so during the night you can,t see outside at all, and during the day passengers crash into each other from both sides of the doors when they open, as they also cant see passengers inside. (Yes we still haven't learned how to wait for alighting passengers) The second batch are "OK" as I suspect the government had a good smeg about the first batch. The C2s are also "OK" not brilliant, but bearable.

- Halo


LOL at the Flexis! Spain gets pretty flamin' hot in summer so I would expect the C2s to be better. One thing I notice they do in Europe to keep the aircon environment reasonable inside is have "door open" buttons on the doors so that if not all doors are required at a stop some stay closed. None of the Adelaide ones have this feature do they?

- tonyp


Both the Flexity and Citadis trams in Adelaide will not open the door unless the "door open request"  button is touched. Note: that is "touched" not "pressed". This differs from the trains (2000/2100 class and refurbed 3000/3100 class) in that the button does nothing until the tram is stopped whereas the trains can still be in motion when the button is pressed and the doors will open when the train comes to a halt.

 
Halo Chief Train Controller

I was sure the C2s can do this if the driver hits unlock, and the passenger hits a door button before the tram stops, the doors will open the moment the tram comes to a halt.

 
route14 Chief Commissioner

Its pretty unacceptable a modern tram can't provide adequate airconditioning, don't get me started with the Siemens D trams, they are nothing but trouble. Even a B2 which is 20 years old is more comfortable and its a joke. Glad the next trams coming aren't imported by Siemens or any overseas manufacturer hopefully.

- Chrono Detector



Trams do have different "personalities" including in air-conditioning.  Tram 2070 on route 19 blew hot air in hot weather at one stage, and I traveled on one of the D2 class on route 96 which was so cold that I could catch cold if I fell asleep on the tram.

 
ozandrew Beginner

Its pretty unacceptable a modern tram can't provide adequate airconditioning, don't get me started with the Siemens D trams, they are nothing but trouble. Even a B2 which is 20 years old is more comfortable and its a joke. Glad the next trams coming aren't imported by Siemens or any overseas manufacturer hopefully.

- Chrono Detector

Trams do have different "personalities" including in air-conditioning. Tram 2070 on route 19 blew hot air in hot weather at one stage, and I traveled on one of the D2 class on route 96 which was so cold that I could catch cold if I fell asleep on the tram.

- route14



It must have been a coolish day when you took your trip on the 96. D2s are slightly cooler because there are two a/c units for less than double the size of a D1. The a/c on the Combino Plus that was sent out here for a trial had very good a/c. It is clear that off the shelf European a/c was inadequate for our conditions. On a hot day it is pleasure to get onto a B class, providing the a/c is working and well adjusted. Buy cheap, you get cheap.

 

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