New CityRail bathurst service starting soon

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R44 Chief Commissioner

Location: Moving paper



All they have to do to transform an Endeavour to an Xplorer is to replace the external livery?

- thadocta

 NSW is a world leader in using paint to transform public transport. Cool

- tonyp




Laughing Thats a good one.

 
jedimasterc Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned

Less we forget there were day return services form Bathurst/Orange not that long ago. Both were discontinued due to lack of patronage and the preference by intending passengers to use the quicker bus service between Bathurst and Lithgow. 24/12/1987 WE32 Up Bathurst day service at Rydal

Cheers

- WayneTedrow



people these days don't want to travel on old smeggy carriages. give people wifi, atm and drinks and I'm sure it will be well patronised. a more comfortable ride with the ability to work will always win out over smeggy old carriages and buses.

 
tonyp Chief Commissioner

Location: Shoalhaven



people these days don't want to travel on old smeggy carriages. give people wifi, atm and drinks and I'm sure it will be well patronised. a more comfortable ride with the ability to work will always win out over smeggy old carriages and buses.

- jedimasterc


I don't think WayneTedrow was advocating the use of old carriages, merely showing an example of a former service.

I don't whether you're old enough to remember, but it's worth pointing out that the old smeggy carriages (and buses to a degree) were/are more comfortable than some of the new smeggy carriages. I think we need to introduce some new non-smegs. Smile

 
WayneTedrow Junior Train Controller

Thanks Tony,

I was showing a picture of a service that was provided and rarely used. Keep in mind when this pic was taken (1987) that the GWH was still a narrow winding two lane road from at least Mnt Lambie to Marangaroo. Even then the "smeggy" bus was the preferred option for passengers from Bathurst to Lithgow.

Since 1987 the road has had major upgrades and is now "freeway" conditions from Lithgow to near Bathurst.

The perception at least is that road journey is quicker because it travels in a relatively straight line from Bathurst to Lithgow/ Mnt Victoria rather than spending "hours" going around every hill and tree  along the way.

So we might have an Endeavour service, once again it will be rarely used and the Government of the day can say "Well we tried but nobody wants it"

What is wrong with spoke (bus/coach) and hub (Lithgow/Mnt Vic) any way. The airlines do it all the time.

John

 
jedimasterc Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned



people these days don't want to travel on old smeggy carriages. give people wifi, atm and drinks and I'm sure it will be well patronised. a more comfortable ride with the ability to work will always win out over smeggy old carriages and buses.

- jedimasterc


I don't think WayneTedrow was advocating the use of old carriages, merely showing an example of a former service.

I don't whether you're old enough to remember, but it's worth pointing out that the old smeggy carriages (and buses to a degree) were/are more comfortable than some of the new smeggy carriages. I think we need to introduce some new non-smegs. Smile

- tonyp



that's what I'm getting at. the old service was probabably old and smeggy and didn't have the conveniences that we now take for granted or expect on such a trip.

I agree with your last paragraph and agree we need new non smeggy carriages to encourage the takeup of this service if it is to go ahead.

 
jedimasterc Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned

Thanks Tony, I was showing a picture of a service that was provided and rarely used. Keep in mind when this pic was taken (1987) that the GWH was still a narrow winding two lane road from at least Mnt Lambie to Marangaroo. Even then the "smeggy" bus was the preferred option for passengers from Bathurst to Lithgow. Since 1987 the road has had major upgrades and is now "freeway" conditions from Lithgow to near Bathurst. The perception at least is that road journey is quicker because it travels in a relatively straight line from Bathurst to Lithgow/ Mnt Victoria rather than spending "hours" going around every hill and tree along the way. So we might have an Endeavour service, once again it will be rarely used and the Government of the day can say "Well we tried but nobody wants it" What is wrong with spoke (bus/coach) and hub (Lithgow/Mnt Vic) any way. The airlines do it all the time. John

- WayneTedrow



I agree that line straightening needs to take place to speed up this service for it to succeed longterm. the same is needed for the southern highlands service.

 
djf01 Chief Commissioner



 if the voters want a train and you promised a train in the election a train it shall be.
- RTT_Rules

 

Sitting on an Endeavour for 4 or 5 hours will soon quell their interest in trains.

A direct train will have to be something of Xplorer/Vlocity standard for that length of journey.

- tonyp



Personally I'm not that worried about the seats on the Endeavours for those longer trips.  The Explorer seats aren't any great improvement IMHO.  In an uncrowded train, you can lie down on the 3 across Endeavour seats, and having the choice of seat closer to or away from the neighbours of your choice is a definite advantage.

 
bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on an L90



 if the voters want a train and you promised a train in the election a train it shall be.
- RTT_Rules

 

Sitting on an Endeavour for 4 or 5 hours will soon quell their interest in trains.

A direct train will have to be something of Xplorer/Vlocity standard for that length of journey.

- tonyp



Personally I'm not that worried about the seats on the Endeavours for those longer trips.  The Explorer seats aren't any great improvement IMHO.  In an uncrowded train, you can lie down on the 3 across Endeavour seats, and having the choice of seat closer to or away from the neighbours of your choice is a definite advantage.

- djf01

I disagree, the "no feet on seats" rule might make getting yourself comfy on an Endeavour a bit hard. Also, if it's just 1 direct service to and from Bathurst and Central then it'll be too full to make yourself at home anyway IMHO.

 
handyandy Junior Train Controller

A V/Line VL would be much more comfortable.........

 
RTT_Rules Minister for Railways

Location: Dubai UAE

"Express" in Australian rail context means doesn't stop.

If an Xplorer cannot climb the spiral, apart from Giffith, how does it get to Lithgow, Cowan Bank etc? Which are far longer banks.

Road, ok they will get an even better road, fly over or something.

 
5814 Chief Train Controller



I agree that line straightening needs to take place to speed up this service for it to succeed longterm. the same is needed for the southern highlands service.

- jedimasterc

 

Earth to Jedi: any idea how much your recommended line straightening Bathurst-Lithgow would cost?  Feel free to pay for it , but don't expect the rest of us to. 

Southern Highlands is a different case - justifiable for fast freight and faster if not very fast pax - but straightening would of course bypass many of the places where southern highlands commuter pax would want to come from!  

Picton in particular shows, 150 years on, the enduring damage done to decent transport planning by catering for selfish local interests.     

 
rrroLLa Chief Train Controller



Earth to Jedi: any idea how much your recommended line straightening Bathurst-Lithgow would cost?  Feel free to pay for it , but don't expect the rest of us to. 

Southern Highlands is a different case - justifiable for fast freight and faster if not very fast pax - but straightening would of course bypass many of the places where southern highlands commuter pax would want to come from!  

Picton in particular shows, 150 years on, the enduring damage done to decent transport planning by catering for selfish local interests.     

- 5814



Read what he said again,



I agree that line straightening needs to take place to speed up this service for it to succeed longterm.

- jedimasterc
 
jedimasterc Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned





I agree that line straightening needs to take place to speed up this service for it to succeed longterm. the same is needed for the southern highlands service.
- jedimasterc

 

Earth to Jedi: any idea how much your recommended line straightening Bathurst-Lithgow would cost?  Feel free to pay for it , but don't expect the rest of us to. 

Southern Highlands is a different case - justifiable for fast freight and faster if not very fast pax - but straightening would of course bypass many of the places where southern highlands commuter pax would want to come from!  

Picton in particular shows, 150 years on, the enduring damage done to decent transport planning by catering for selfish local interests.     

- 5814




thanks for the backup watson but I'll handle this one.

Why shouldn't we pay for the upgrade. This state has had a lack of forsight and planning in regards to infrastructure for so long it isn't funny. Rail infrastructure in particular has suffered at the hands of the powerful road and trucking movements. These are projects that we should be looking to pay for to make our state more productive and efficient to fight off the overseas threat to our food and grain industries.

What are you so scared of straightening the line to bathurst or to goulburn. I say lets go into debt to get this infrastructure built so that we can benefit in reduced food prices and greater profits for farmers. So that passengers can enjoy a quick, comforatble and fast trip from the country into the city. So we can get coal to the ports quicker.

What do we have to lose. Our lives if we continue to allow trucks to do long haul trips on our roads.

your mentality is exactly the sort of thing that many politicians have suffered from. Too afraid to do the things that need to be done. the she'll be right attitude. well it won't be right. We need this infrastructure upgraded and the sooner the better for our backwards heading state.

If it costs us money then so be it. we and our progeny will be the beneficaries of foresight if only someone is brave enough to do it.

 
RTT_Rules Minister for Railways

Location: Dubai UAE

The whole Mountains to Bathurst leg could do with some moderisation. Often hear comments of what they did in Vic on RFR, ok thats flat, the mountains line isn't but it can be improved. There are some freights that use the line so there is some benefit for them as well. The benefit for NSW govt and taxpayers is that the trains services would run faster, potentially use less rollingstock and less hours by staff, less wear and tear to both train and track and more full far ticket users. At the same time fix the width issue. So there is a return on investment, how much ? And yes of course the comunity return as well and effectively increases the practical commutable distance.

So if you had a $1B to drop in curve easing over 160km, surely this would make some sort of difference. Perhaps a few sigle track section after Mt Vic where traffic is lighter where a big improvement on curve speed can be obtained.

South main, yes $2-3B to align Campbelltown to Albury over 5 years. Stations on main south commuters, I'm sure if they had 20-30min wipped off their commute time they would complain having station moved. Potentially one or two stations could be merged also thus saving more.

Regards

Shane

 
PhilChorusch Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned



Yeah cityrail needs to probably have 5 or 6 new Hunter railcars so the 3 Endeavours you say can be used for the lithgow- Bathurst runs so probably 2 sets and bring the third Endeavour down the southern highlands and could possibly help if they want to extend cityrail services to Canberra

- A78



So, there are 6 Endeavours on the Southern Highlands, 2 on the south coast and 3 in the hunter.  That's 11 out of a fleet of 14.  So where are the remaining 3?   Rotated out?  Under repair?

- djf01



You will find the remaining 3 Endeavours sitting in the Xplorer shed at Eveleigh, these are normally used for back up trains to Goulburn or used for the Countrylink Xplorer or they have to do is unscew the sides and replace them with the Xplorer skin sheets and scew it back up for either an Amidale/Moree, Griffith, or Canberra service take your pick

- PhilChorusch

 

Please tell me you are kidding.

 

All they have to do to transform an Endeavour to an Xplorer is to replace the external livery?

 

What are you smoking?

 

I noticed that a user has suggested an Xplorer service to Wagga, well this would be a terrific idea but... The Xplorer will not be able to climb the Bethungra spiral so I was told as this is the UP MAIN line, this is why they put them into freight trains to be hauled to Melbourne for refurbishments including the Endeavours

- A user

 

Have fun explaining the Griffith-Sydney Xplorer on Sundays, which goes via Junee, and goes up the Bethungra spiral.

Any more immature childish drivel you wish to share with us?

 

Dave

- thadocta



Hi Dave,

I'm not smoking anything mate, but as I said I was told what do you think I said when this person told me that the Xplorer trains couldn't go up the Bethungra spiral??? I laugh at them, and told them to explain to me why on earth is there a service from Griffith every Sunday as you said in your post, I receieved no answer from the person just a dirty look

By the way, I didn't finish my post last night because this new RP3 is terrible with dial-up meaning it freezes, and crashes so I didn't finish it but it allowed me to click submit and I couldn't get back onto RP to fix up my post so I would have included more details when I was ready

As for the part where I said about the Endeavour to Xplorer sides being unscewed to use as either an Xplorer or back to Endeavour train this would most likely be right because how else are they to convet the set?? Just add paint?? Well it wouldn't be that easy, at the Eveleigh Xploer shed they would have to have extra side fittings of an Xploer or Endeavour to do it for the conversion as I would assume

 
tonyp Chief Commissioner

Location: Shoalhaven



Why shouldn't we pay for the upgrade.

- jedimasterc


It would be ideal but you have to face reality - politically it won't happen. On the Brisbane-Melbourne corridor there's a faint chance but on this one, no chance. So we have to solve it with the vehicles. In the Czech Republic, which has similar alignment issues dues to hilly terrain I was very impressed with the ability of the Pendolinos to chop sizable chunks off the journey times. The tilt trains in Queensland do similar. These are expensive trains but a fraction of the cost of realigning a railway. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

 
rrroLLa Chief Train Controller

You can even speed it up with just a slight speed limit increase.  Apparently up to a 10 minute saving can be safely made between Penrith and Springwood alone. although this does depend on the condition of the track

 
5814 Chief Train Controller


Why shouldn't we pay for the upgrade. This state has had a lack of forsight and planning in regards to infrastructure for so long it isn't funny. Rail infrastructure in particular has suffered at the hands of the powerful road and trucking movements. These are projects that we should be looking to pay for to make our state more productive and efficient to fight off the overseas threat to our food and grain industries.

What are you so scared of straightening the line to bathurst or to goulburn. I say lets go into debt to get this infrastructure built so that we can benefit in reduced food prices and greater profits for farmers. So that passengers can enjoy a quick, comforatble and fast trip from the country into the city. So we can get coal to the ports quicker.

What do we have to lose. Our lives if we continue to allow trucks to do long haul trips on our roads.

your mentality is exactly the sort of thing that many politicians have suffered from. Too afraid to do the things that need to be done. the she'll be right attitude. well it won't be right. We need this infrastructure upgraded and the sooner the better for our backwards heading state.

If it costs us money then so be it. we and our progeny will be the beneficaries of foresight if only someone is brave enough to do it.

- jedimasterc



Dont verbal me sonny, I didnt oppose upgrading to Goulburn.

But as for the rest:

"Overseas threat to our food and grain industries" - are you kidding? The only "threat" going on is that overseas interests want to buy into more of our farm industries than they already have because they see a bright future for them. Same as the billions being invested in coal and other mining here.

I grew up in the Mountains and still visit family there regularly. So I know there is lots of coal on the rails behind quad 82s and the like, rather than fleets of coal trucks on the roads.

Spending money on a Bathurst passenger service that lots of people say they want but very few will use makes sense as a pork barrel but not as transport policy. Spend the money on upgrades that benefit fast freight and that really take trucks off the roads. You dont need to have a "shee'll be right attitude " to take this view, just to have grown up.

 
jedimasterc Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned

I don't know what you have done with the quotes tags but I was not just talking about spending the money for a passenger service. I was proposing spending the money to straighten the line for all sorts of rail transport including freight, coal and produce transport. The lines need modernising for all types of services.

 
jedimasterc Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned



Dont verbal me sonny, I didnt oppose upgrading to Goulburn.


- 5814




I can't believe you called me sonny. how 19th century of you. Who do you think your talking to a teenager. I turned 36 the other day.

You belittled my idea on the mistaken thought that I was proposing this for passenger service only. I would never propose a line upgrade outside of sydney for anything other then multiple purposes. The only exception being a high speed service between the capitals that would most likely not even stop at many country areas.

You talk as if others have no idea what happens outside sydney, well I have family at dubbo, bathurst and orange to the west. Port Macquarrie, walcha, armidale, macksville, bowraville, casino, kyogle, coffs harbour, south west rocks and brisbane to the north. My grandmother used to live at taree and before that gladstone nsw. I spent my christmas's and new years as guests at my families places, so while I don't pretend to know everything about what living in rural areas is like. I have seen the benefits to these towns when new roads, hospitals and infrastructure is provided.

Some of the things I wrote may be wrong and that is OK. Pick me up on it nicely and explain why I am wrong instead of what you wrote. We can then discuss nicely instead of the provocative way we are doing now. maybe something constructive can come out of it.





 
cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting for the sky to fall, the seas to rise... and to see a train on the SSFL!

Only so much money in government coffers,

Rather than continually hitting the PAYG sucker how about using what this country is made of to build it. Works for our major horse racing and sporting venue sponsors Wink

 
alltrainzfan Chief Commissioner

Location: At Many of Places Yet Nowhere


Hi Dave,

I'm not smoking anything mate, but as I said I was told what do you think I said when this person told me that the Xplorer trains couldn't go up the Bethungra spiral??? I laugh at them, and told them to explain to me why on earth is there a service from Griffith every Sunday as you said in your post, I receieved no answer from the person just a dirty look

By the way, I didn't finish my post last night because this new RP3 is terrible with dial-up meaning it freezes, and crashes so I didn't finish it but it allowed me to click submit and I couldn't get back onto RP to fix up my post so I would have included more details when I was ready

As for the part where I said about the Endeavour to Xplorer sides being unscewed to use as either an Xplorer or back to Endeavour train this would most likely be right because how else are they to convet the set?? Just add paint?? Well it wouldn't be that easy, at the Eveleigh Xploer shed they would have to have extra side fittings of an Xploer or Endeavour to do it for the conversion as I would assume

- PhilChorusch



You can't unscrew and screw on body sides of a train. Rolling Eyes

The interiors are totally different. Seats, curtains, luggage storage racks, booked luggage, toilets, buffet. Is that just adding paint and changing the sides? Laughing

 
Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.


The interiors are totally different. Seats, curtains, luggage storage racks, booked luggage, toilets, buffet. Is that just adding paint and changing the sides? Laughing

- alltrainzfan



Well, if they're all made of paint... Mr. Green

 
5814 Chief Train Controller

how on earth I could have misjudged jedi's age to think he /she is a teenager rather than a 30 something? um, can only refer to published trainspotter posts. Opinion on age retracted of course; opinion on everything else more than reaffirmed.

 
Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.

how on earth I could have misjudged jedi's age to think he /she is a teenager rather than a 30 something? um, can only refer to published trainspotter posts. Opinion on age retracted of course; opinion on everything else more than reaffirmed.

- 5814



Kindly reflame.

 

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