Will this just about kill off the catholic church in Australia?

 
  LamontCranston Chief Commissioner


Someone will know this:- Can a priest, who knows that another one has abused children, and fails to report it to police, be charged with being an Accessory after the Fact?
"Valvegear"


Sadly, no. That's not even describing what being an accessory actually is. If said priest took some step(s) to conceal the events that occurred, then I would hope so yes, but I doubt it'd ever happen.
"Aaron"

It apparently has happened and quite regularly that once informed thehierachy would simply transfer the offender to another location/interstate/abroad.
Its difficult to accept the minority taking advantage/a few rotten apples defence when the offenders are being shielded and their wrong doing concealed.

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I am atheist in every sense of the word, many seculars use the word to suggest that they have no religion, but I truly believe that there are no deities.

From what I know of the Catholic Church, which is not much, (I think that's both a lucky thing for both myself and the Church) they seem to be real big on changing the rules to suit themselves. Catholics from 'the west' seem to have this notion of celibacy which does not seem to be followed right throughout the world, infact from what I know it was not even thought of pre Pope Casalitius (or something 1000 odd years ago). It's only vaguely interesting to me that marriage for Catholic Priests seemed to be okay for 1000 odd years, then suddenly some bloke decided that it had to change, one could only assume that it might have had something to do with his lack of interest in women...
"Aaron"

No, no, no, and no. This is not a thread on the whys and wherefores of celibacy in the Roman Catholic Church, may I politely suggest that you do some research on the topic before espousing views like that.
Glossing over the issue, celibacy was introduced because priests centuries ago were rooting around, and doing naughty things with women, and ignoring their Godly duties. That's why Very Happy
"xxxxlbear"


That may well be the case, as I admitted I know very little about Churches in general, but if what you assert is true, and I have no doubt that it may well have been that way, why a vow of chastity? Why not a more easy to follow vow of monogamy, or better yet, a vow to not 'root around'?

As an interesting aside, why does this 'generalised kiddie fiddling' not appear in more (what I from the outside might consider) progressive churches around the world, and the eastern churches and religions? Which again to me at least do not appear to have the rigid rules of the Catholic Church in the west.
"Aaron"


Forcing celebacy to stop them "rooting around" doesn't work, look at prisons. It would appear such an issue that in middle east where in some countries homosexuality is rewarded with death penalty they drug the food to keep the guys limp. So go to a church where a guy can never get easily involved with a female and unfortunately some overtime do things they may have not normally done. My view anyway.

Its probably true that the celebacy bit may have been introduced by a man not interested i women. Or just some hard liner thinking not having sex will keep their mind on the job. Science actually proves otherwise. Have a quicky with misses in morning, then lead pray a few hours later with a lower hormone level. More likely to be focusing on job than farmer Joe's 18yr old daughter in front row deliberately flirting knowing you won't have an option for relief. (May explain why Muslims don't have women in a mosque and know this does not make it the girls fault.)

I think th RC church let the world know it wasn't interested in change including this issue with child abusers when they voted for the last pope, an 80 year old hard liner. Option was available for a younger more modern Sth American who would have probably tackled the contraception issue that is killing parts of Sth America and maybe moved on the celebacy issue. One thing for an 80 year old guy to say no sex, but for someone in their 20's tossing up a choice of no sex for life, no touch of a female or someone close to talk to and no children or having a career, relationship and children and attending on Sunday's. You can see in this century, the later is going to win out more and more.

The RC church is dying, the child abuse issue is the icing on the cake, straw on the camels back etc. Continued ecomonic developement in Sth America, their last major stronghold will continue the trend unless they can shake off the bad and moderise and the longer they leave it, the faster change will need to be.
  whiteknight Locomotive Fireman

Location: Kings Park.N.S.W. 2148.
 As a christian guy, i am not a Catholic, but do have beliefs and morals of my own.As a young man growing up i was taught right from wrong.The case of the Catholic Church at present needs to be Full on and a Complete review of their church rules and laws.And it needs to be changed.

  When a person who feels that they have sinned,and need to confess about it.It should be done -not on a 1 to 1 basis.But having 2 Priests or Holy Fathers sitting in judgement-with the person who is confessing the sin that they have committed.The Priest conducting the discussion has the other Priest as a Witness to what is said,and what action the sinner needs to take,to repent of their sin.Not someone talking behind a cloth,to someone who cannot see you.

  Why do the Mormon Missionaries go about their religion dressed in suits and in pairs.So that 1 is a witness to the other.And these young men study their scriptures and can repeat them off by heart. In the Mormon Church,if you have something to confess,it is done in privacy with the Bishop[local minister] and 1 or 2 of his Councillors act as a witness.And nobody really finds out where 'joe so and so' is because its none of their business.You can still go to church,but depending on the serious nature of whatever you have done, is judged by the Bishop and his other witnesses his Councillors.But you may not be able to carry out certain functions within the church,until your time of Repentance is up.Some matters take time.

  And within the Church, those members who have any responsibilities in dealing with children have to sign a Government Declaration,declaring that you are a worthy person with no criminal record, etc.and a Person of Trust.At any time the Government can do a check up and disqualify any member to be worthy to hold a position within the local church organisation-when it involves your dealing with children.They need to be protected from the wickness of the world we live in.NO CHILD deserves to be violated by any MAN OR WOMAN-For their own Gratification.And the Catholic Church should be condemned for what it has done to the lives of young children.It has been a well known and long term knowledge of what the Catholic Clergy have been up to.And now is the time for everything to be brought out into the open and cleaned up once and for all.

  There are many religions in the world today.And they too need to clean up their acts in the way that they treat young children and woman.Everyone deserves to be treated with RESPECT for what they believe in.And simply do the right thing.Praying on young children for your own pleasure is not the right way to go about it.If you need to relieve yourself,take it in your own hands and do so in the shower.Or go to a brothel and pay for it.

 When you go to church,and partake of the Sacrament-do so with a clear mind and concious and say to yourself.Please forgive me ,for what i have done to so and so, and ask for forgiveness quietly.But dont go out and do it all over again.If that is the case you need to speak to your Religious Leader.

  We are a Country that alows us to worship who we wish.And as you drive around many of the churchs are closing down.And many others are overflowing ,as people return to religion -especially those who seek to know which church is the only true church on the earth today.Attend church dressed in your Sunday best,not jeans and a casual top.Go dressed in a suit and tie.And ladies dress in your favourite outfit.Show that you really care about what we were taught as young children in the scriptures.6 days shalt thou labour,but on the 7th day i give you rest.

  I hope that my remarks will be viewed in the manner in which i have given them.Once this matter with the Catholic Church and the behaviour of its Ministry Leaders  is cleaned up, the better off we will all be.

  written by the whiteknight.





 
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA

Someone will know this:- Can a priest, who knows that another one has abused children, and fails to report it to police, be charged with being an Accessory after the Fact?
"Valvegear"


Sadly, no. That's not even describing what being an accessory actually is. If said priest took some step(s) to conceal the events that occurred, then I would hope so yes, but I doubt it'd ever happen.
"Aaron"

It apparently has happened and quite regularly that once informed thehierachy would simply transfer the offender to another location/interstate/abroad.
Its difficult to accept the minority taking advantage/a few rotten apples defence when the offenders are being shielded and their wrong doing concealed.

"LamontCranston"


I should have perhaps been more clear, without doubt, cover ups have clearly been the done thing. What I doubt would ever happen is a prosecution of the coverer... (Which should happen).

Ouch! There will be questions to be answered here:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/allegations-church-kept-priest-sex-files/story-fn3dxiwe-1226518514215
  Sir Thomas Bent Minister for Railways

Location: Banned
This:
Any investigation needs to go much deeper than the Catholic Church. I hope we have the guts to look deeply into other hallowed institutions and even our own extended families.
"Oldfart"

And especially this:
Finally, being as how the Royal Commission is meant to cover all kinds of groups in Australia, gunzels might look closer to their rail related hobby for paedophilia (and the consequent exposure of same). It seems mostly the catholic church but it aint all.
"parkeshub"


Let's be honest.  I can name five tourist and heritage organisations off the top of my head in Victoria that I know for a fact that they at one stage had known convicted paedophiles active in their organisation.  

Two did something straight away and booted them out and never to darken their doors again as soon as the conviction was known: one I am not sure of and two left it go; one of which only took action after it was published in print media.
One values a powervan over having a convicted child rapist whose sentence and conviction is less than ten years old remained a member at least until a couple of years ago.


This, folks, is serious s**t.

Let's be honest about the overall demographic of railfans.  A goodly proportion are, to be blunt, have intellectual disabilities or at least diagnosable mental conditions.  Not all are, but I'd bet that any railfan trip, or preservation society, has a few kids around who are a bit simple.
These people are prime targets for rockspiders.  Kids who will come back to someone's house to "look at a slide collection" or invited for cabrides or to do late night work in the workshops, or to sleep over in the carriages...

This has happened.  Children have been sexually abused while on tours or in the premises of preservation groups.  And a blind eye is turned in the past as they have mechanical skills, or a massive archive of rare photos, or are friends with the management committee...
I've had victims approach me saying "XYZ person did this to me on a tour" etc. 

Again, this is serious s**t.

Any organisation, be it the Micks or the old orphanages, the Scouts or, closer to home, preservation groups, better make sure that they do something now if they haven't already.

  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Someone will know this:- Can a priest, who knows that another one has abused children, and fails to report it to police, be charged with being an Accessory after the Fact?
"Valvegear"


Sadly, no. That's not even describing what being an accessory actually is. If said priest took some step(s) to conceal the events that occurred, then I would hope so yes, but I doubt it'd ever happen.
"Aaron"

It apparently has happened and quite regularly that once informed thehierachy would simply transfer the offender to another location/interstate/abroad.
Its difficult to accept the minority taking advantage/a few rotten apples defence when the offenders are being shielded and their wrong doing concealed.
"LamontCranston"


I should have perhaps been more clear, without doubt, cover ups have clearly been the done thing. What I doubt would ever happen is a prosecution of the coverer... (Which should happen).

Ouch! There will be questions to be answered here:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/allegations-church-kept-priest-sex-files/story-fn3dxiwe-1226518514215
"Aaron"


The only way forward if for the church to come clean and make all its books fully open. If it loses half its clergy, so be it, from this it can potentially review its practices and policies that drive this behaviour and change. These abuses were also not limited to the church but still sanctioned by the church including domestic abuse of wives.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Let's be honest. I can name five tourist and heritage organisations off the top of my head in Victoria that I know for a fact that they at one stage had known convicted paedophiles active in their organisation.

Two did something straight away and booted them out and never to darken their doors again as soon as the conviction was known: one I am not sure of and two left it go; one of which only took action after it was published in print media.
One values a powervan over having a convicted child rapist whose sentence and conviction is less than ten years old remained a member at least until a couple of years ago.


This, folks, is serious s**t.

Let's be honest about the overall demographic of railfans. A goodly proportion are, to be blunt, have intellectual disabilities or at least diagnosable mental conditions. Not all are, but I'd bet that any railfan trip, or preservation society, has a few kids around who are a bit simple.
These people are prime targets for rockspiders. Kids who will come back to someone's house to "look at a slide collection" or invited for cabrides or to do late night work in the workshops, or to sleep over in the carriages...

This has happened. Children have been sexually abused while on tours or in the premises of preservation groups. And a blind eye is turned in the past as they have mechanical skills, or a massive archive of rare photos, or are friends with the management committee...
I've had victims approach me saying "XYZ person did this to me on a tour" etc.

Again, this is serious s**t.

Any organisation, be it the Micks or the old orphanages, the Scouts or, closer to home, preservation groups, better make sure that they do something now if they haven't already.
"Sir Thomas Bent"


Hence the call by Pell asking not to make the Catholic Church a scapegoat, yet everyone crusified him for saying so.
  ParkesHub Chief Commissioner

Pell was actually stating a position that was simply untrue. For that, he was quite reasonably taken to task. Crucified is too strong a word, he wasn't. Now, some of those highly critical of Pell were fellow priests and bishops from within the church. The reason the church is heavily implicated in all of this is simply that this is where a large number of paedophiles have operated.

Now, understand this, the barrage of criticism levelled at the church is not that these people abused (not only sexual but physical and emotional too) those in their care but the pathetic manner in which the church dealt with it. Moving clergy, denial, half asred processes to compensate. These are only some of the issues the church faces. And so they should face them.....without fear, favour and intensely.

All organisations that have dealings with children should also be scrutinised. All of them....not just the catholic church.


Edit...add more
  johnboy Chief Commissioner

Location: Up the road from Gulgong
If we can kill off ALL religions, the world would be a better place.
  Grantham Minister for Railways

Location: I'm with stupid!

This:
Any investigation needs to go much deeper than the Catholic Church. I hope we have the guts to look deeply into other hallowed institutions and even our own extended families.
"Oldfart"

And especially this:
Finally, being as how the Royal Commission is meant to cover all kinds of groups in Australia, gunzels might look closer to their rail related hobby for paedophilia (and the consequent exposure of same). It seems mostly the catholic church but it aint all.
"parkeshub"


Let's be honest. I can name five tourist and heritage organisations off the top of my head in Victoria that I know for a fact that they at one stage had known convicted paedophiles active in their organisation.

Two did something straight away and booted them out and never to darken their doors again as soon as the conviction was known: one I am not sure of and two left it go; one of which only took action after it was published in print media.
One values a powervan over having a convicted child rapist whose sentence and conviction is less than ten years old remained a member at least until a couple of years ago.


This, folks, is serious s**t.

Let's be honest about the overall demographic of railfans. A goodly proportion are, to be blunt, have intellectual disabilities or at least diagnosable mental conditions. Not all are, but I'd bet that any railfan trip, or preservation society, has a few kids around who are a bit simple.
These people are prime targets for rockspiders. Kids who will come back to someone's house to "look at a slide collection" or invited for cabrides or to do late night work in the workshops, or to sleep over in the carriages...

This has happened. Children have been sexually abused while on tours or in the premises of preservation groups. And a blind eye is turned in the past as they have mechanical skills, or a massive archive of rare photos, or are friends with the management committee...
I've had victims approach me saying "XYZ person did this to me on a tour" etc.

Again, this is serious s**t.

Any organisation, be it the Micks or the old orphanages, the Scouts or, closer to home, preservation groups, better make sure that they do something now if they haven't already.
"Sir Thomas Bent"


Thank you, STB, for pointing out the direct comparisons with this corner of the rail industy. Bringing the discussion uncomfortably close to home tells us that we should possibly fix our own problems with poedophiles before we tell other organistions how to deal with theirs.

 

There is nothing like the mention of specific religions to bring out prejudices that blur the discussion very quickly. Especially as for comments such as blaming the dark ages on the Roman Catholics!

M

  Dungog Diesel Junior Train Controller

If we can kill off ALL religions, the world would be a better place.
"johnboy"


As it happens I agree with you. But perhaps we could keep more extreme views like this off this forum? I think the world probably would be a better place without religion, but I also believe that people should be free to choose who/what they believe in, even if I believe something completely different.

As an aside, most religious people I know (Catholics included) are likable, honest, peaceful, sensible people who have strong morals and values (often much stronger than mine). So long as they're not abusing children or covering for those who do, they can believe whatever they want as far as I'm concerned... from God to Allah, or from teapots orbiting the sun to Santa Claus.

I don't think the entirety of organised religion should be tarred with the same brush as those in the church who commit disgustingly repugnant acts, and those in the church hierarchy whose 'efforts' to deal with them is so pitifully inadequate.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Again, it's not religion that is at fault, it is the human factor within that is.

If only humanity took on some of the principles of Christianity, then the world would be a better place, but then again, that is not the topic of this thread.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
If we can kill off ALL religions, the world would be a better place.
"johnboy"
As it happens I agree with you. But perhaps we could keep more extreme views like this off this forum? I think the world probably would be a better place without religion, but I also believe that people should be free to choose who/what they believe in, even if I believe something completely different. As an aside, most religious people I know (Catholics included) are likable, honest, peaceful, sensible people who have strong morals and values (often much stronger than mine). So long as they're not abusing children or covering for those who do, they can believe whatever they want as far as I'm concerned... from God to Allah, or from teapots orbiting the sun to Santa Claus.I don't think the entirety of organised religion should be tarred with the same brush as those in the church who commit disgustingly repugnant acts, and those in the church hierarchy whose 'efforts' to deal with them is so pitifully inadequate.
"Dungog Diesel"


Yes, its probably true, but I wonder if religion battles such as middle east would just get replaced with something else.

We can say religion doesn't start wars, people do. But guns don't kill either, people do and we are banning guns. However I don't want to be the person telling someone else what they can and cannot believe in, this is like reverse missionary work.

Few weeks ago I watched a CNN interview with girls in Israel Uni and then with Palistine side. My wife and I just looked at each other and said these two cultures will never get along, ever and it wasn't about what they were talking about. It was simply their dress and the way the girls expressed themselves verbally (not content, manerisim).

We live in Dubai so we see all angles where we are and I've certainly learnt alot about muslims and have a greater appreciation than before. Its not what you see on TV. Note: I'm not signing up for it either, just understand better how they are.


  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
However I don't want to be the person telling someone else what they can and cannot believe in, this is like reverse missionary work.
"RTT_Rules"


I don't think the reverse missionary position is a viable one either, as it violates the idea that people should be allowed to believe what they want to.

But none of this changes the fact that the abuses happen, and have got to stop. To borrow Sir Thomas Bent's phrase, this is serious s***.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE


But none of this changes the fact that the abuses happen, and have got to stop. To borrow Sir Thomas Bent's phrase, this is serious s***.
"Watson374"


Agree and continues to happens outside the church.
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
This won't kill off the RC church. This has been around for decades - whatever happened to Father so and so?...

Many aussie catholics are fairly pragmatic - there's a reason why some of our best comedians have an RC background.

Looking around at other 'Christian' denominations there is a common element of  do as I say not do as I do. With some US christian faiths it seems you can do whatever you like as long as you ask for forgiveness - I suspect JC ain't that gullible Smile

Oh yes...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EprQGmZ3Imw
 
  tezza Chief Commissioner

However I don't want to be the person telling someone else what they can and cannot believe in, this is like reverse missionary work.
"RTT_Rules"


I don't think the reverse missionary position is a viable one either, as it violates the idea that people should be allowed to believe what they want to.

But none of this changes the fact that the abuses happen, and have got to stop. To borrow Sir Thomas Bent's phrase, this is serious s***.
"Watson374"



If the reverse missionary position isn't a viable one Watson374, you should seriously consider giving the reverse cowgirl position a go
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
However I don't want to be the person telling someone else what they can and cannot believe in, this is like reverse missionary work.
"RTT_Rules"


I don't think the reverse missionary position is a viable one either, as it violates the idea that people should be allowed to believe what they want to.

But none of this changes the fact that the abuses happen, and have got to stop. To borrow Sir Thomas Bent's phrase, this is serious s***.
"Watson374"



If the reverse missionary position isn't a viable one Watson374, you should seriously consider giving the reverse cowgirl position a go
"tezza"


...wait what Shocked

Oh God, why.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
However I don't want to be the person telling someone else what they can and cannot believe in, this is like reverse missionary work.
"RTT_Rules"


I don't think the reverse missionary position is a viable one either, as it violates the idea that people should be allowed to believe what they want to.

But none of this changes the fact that the abuses happen, and have got to stop. To borrow Sir Thomas Bent's phrase, this is serious s***.
"Watson374"



If the reverse missionary position isn't a viable one Watson374, you should seriously consider giving the reverse cowgirl position a go
"tezza"


...wait what Shocked

Oh God, why.
"Watson374"


Well the missionary position is one of the most used sex positions used, so a reverse one would more than likely be the same. The cow girl position is interesting as well if you have a willing partner.  LaughingLaughing
  tezza Chief Commissioner

At this very minute Watson374 is madly googling away
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".

At this very minute Watson374 is madly googling away
"tezza"


 

Hahahahahaha, more than likely.

  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
At this very minute Watson374 is madly googling away
"tezza"

Hahahahahaha, more than likely.

"David Peters"

Oh dear, I'd lost track of this thread.

In all honesty, I was deliberately exploiting RTT_Rules's use of 'reverse missionary', and I'm not surprised you two discovered it pretty sharpish.

As they say, 'teehee'.
  LamontCranston Chief Commissioner

This:
Any investigation needs to go much deeper than the Catholic Church. I hope we have the guts to look deeply into other hallowed institutions and even our own extended families.
"Oldfart"

And especially this:
Finally, being as how the Royal Commission is meant to cover all kinds of groups in Australia, gunzels might look closer to their rail related hobby for paedophilia (and the consequent exposure of same). It seems mostly the catholic church but it aint all.
"parkeshub"


Let's be honest. I can name five tourist and heritage organisations off the top of my head in Victoria that I know for a fact that they at one stage had known convicted paedophiles active in their organisation.

Two did something straight away and booted them out and never to darken their doors again as soon as the conviction was known: one I am not sure of and two left it go; one of which only took action after it was published in print media.
One values a powervan over having a convicted child rapist whose sentence and conviction is less than ten years old remained a member at least until a couple of years ago.


This, folks, is serious s**t.

Let's be honest about the overall demographic of railfans. A goodly proportion are, to be blunt, have intellectual disabilities or at least diagnosable mental conditions. Not all are, but I'd bet that any railfan trip, or preservation society, has a few kids around who are a bit simple.
These people are prime targets for rockspiders. Kids who will come back to someone's house to "look at a slide collection" or invited for cabrides or to do late night work in the workshops, or to sleep over in the carriages...

This has happened. Children have been sexually abused while on tours or in the premises of preservation groups. And a blind eye is turned in the past as they have mechanical skills, or a massive archive of rare photos, or are friends with the management committee...
I've had victims approach me saying "XYZ person did this to me on a tour" etc.

Again, this is serious s**t.

Any organisation, be it the Micks or the old orphanages, the Scouts or, closer to home, preservation groups, better make sure that they do something now if they haven't already.
"Sir Thomas Bent"

Might as well add business too, work gossip has it a guy at mine got booted not long before I started for making some of the underage female staff uncomfortable.
Have to wonder how prevalent it could it be in the industries with a lot of teenagers: supermarkets, fastfood, etc who are new and inexperienced and under the supervision of an adult they have to defer to. Some can be thorough in their background checks+training staff on rights and responsibilities, some not.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
This developing story from the Royal Commission underway presently in Ballarat is just Shocking.  The Church has left a terrible trail of destruction in people lives and this must now not go unpunished.

George Pell should be made to come back to Australia and face the music the coward.

https://www.change.org/p/pope-francis-send-cardinal-pell-back-to-australia-to-appear-at-the-royal-commission-into-institutional-child-sexual-abuse?utm_source=action_alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=312981&alert_id=BKUZCUWwqR_YgXuCAHWvNHLisUlGXs66euP080zx59Vg%2B204ceM%2BIGIi6fOTfILN1hxghoDov%2Fg

I am just appalled at what has transpired.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
If Pell told me that the sun would rise tomorrow morning, I'd want a second opinion.

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