melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
At the current time it cost the taxpayer :2.6 billion per year in subsidy to run public transport in Victoria.

Revenue from public transport is about: 600 million or 0.6 million

That question here - should we just  dump the ticket system (myki) and just pay 3.2 billion dollars per year to make  public transport for free and get increase demand from 20% to 30%

sources: 3aw

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  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
At the current time it cost the taxpayer :2.6 billion per year in subsidy to run public transport in Victoria.

Revenue from public transport is about: 600 million or 0.6 million

That question here - should we just  dump the ticket system (myki) and just pay 3.2 billion dollars per year to make  public transport for free and get increase demand from 20% to 30%

sources: 3aw
melbtrip

No chance.
There are people here who simply detest that idea, and will argue ad nauseum against it.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with people paying through the tax system a minimal amount per week contribution to public transport to fund a ticketless public transport system. Amount paid can be based on the postcode of where a tax payer lives....someone living in the Melbourne suburban area pays slightly more than, say, a Mildura resident.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Fare-free travel is a nice idea but I just don't think it will ever get off the ground - the public would get too shirty I feel.

Myki was a really good concept but like nearly everything to do with public transport in Victoria, it's been subject to political interference and progressively 'down-scaled' so as to become the giant pile of poop that it is now.  The removal of key aspects of the functionality such as temporary ticketing, the refusal to take cash, genuine 'one ticket' use on V/Line and the general unreliability of the system have all wreaked what could have otherwise been a good system.  I think it's also obvious to the casual observer that the wrong contractor was picked to install and operate the system - it just won't run the way it's supposed to. Why on earth Bachelor picked a group with no previous experience in installing or operating such systems is still a mystery.

There's other things wrong too like a seeming inability of bus drivers to fix faulty validators, validators constantly dropping in and out on trams, wreaked screens through vandalism or weathering making it unreadable, delayed top-ups through the automated system etc that the government either refuses to acknowledge or blames on third parties (or the user).  However, as I've said before, we have a State government with little to nil interest in improving the public transport network so I think we just have to put up with the system as it is and resolve as individuals to try and make it work in our favour... somehow.
  Gauntlet Chief Commissioner

Location:
So, if I board a Vline train at Sunshine for Ardeer, I will be charged for a trip to BENDIGO unless the conductor does his job properly.
Calgully
You'll get charged a zone 2-8  peak fare if the conductor checks your myki otherwise it'll be zone 1&2 fare.
If it's an H-set to Bacchus Marsh I'm wondering if conductors still check mykis.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
You'll get charged a zone 2-8  peak fare if the conductor checks your myki otherwise it'll be zone 1&2 fare.
If it's an H-set to Bacchus Marsh I'm wondering if conductors still check mykis.
Gauntlet
I would like to point out  - if you're on a peak train and touch on at Sunshine and travel to Ballarat  - and then you touch of at Ballarat  - you get charged a off-peak fare (zone 2 -  8 )


Here is off-peak fare rule.

Off-peak fares apply to all trips of at least three zones, except where you touch off in Zone 1 before 9 am on a weekday, or touch on in Zone 1 between 4 and 6 pm on a weekday. With myki, off-peak fares apply to concession passengers on weekends.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
I would like to point out  - if you're on a peak train and touch on at Sunshine and travel to Bendigo  - and then you touch of at Bendigo - you get charged a off-peak fare (zone 2 -  8 )


Here is off-peak fare rule.

Off-peak fares apply to all trips of at least three zones, except where you touch off in Zone 1 before 9 am on a weekday, or touch on in Zone 1 between 4 and 6 pm on a weekday. With myki, off-peak fares apply to concession passengers on weekends.
melbtrip

That's interesting, as V/Line fares have always been peak fares for concession riders on the weeked (not sure about full fare as I only ever buy conc. fares).
  Gauntlet Chief Commissioner

Location:
I think I get it now.
You catch a Ballarat train to go to Ardeer, not a Bendigo one.
Bendigo trains don't stop at Sunshine anyway.
Bendigo is in zone 13, Ballarat is in zone 8.
Calgully may have been assuming that the default fare on all lines is the fare to Bendigo, it may not have been a typo that nobody noticed.

When a default fare is charged is it always a peak fare?

And what are the chances that the conductor programs the wrong line so people who don't touch off on the Geelong line get charged a fare to Traralgon?
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
I think I get it now.
You catch a Ballarat train to go to Ardeer, not a Bendigo one.
Bendigo trains don't stop at Sunshine anyway.
Bendigo is in zone 13, Ballarat is in zone 8.
Calgully may have been assuming that the default fare on all lines is the fare to Bendigo, it may not have been a typo that nobody noticed.

When a default fare is charged is it always a peak fare?

And what are the chances that the conductor programs the wrong line so people who don't touch off on the Geelong line get charged a fare to Traralgon?
Gauntlet
I made a mistake on the location - some how I when I copy and paste, it paste Bendigo instead of Ballarat

When a default fare is charged is it always a peak fare? yes - to make sure peope touch off

And what are the chances that the conductor programs the wrong line so people who don't touch off on the Geelong line get charged a fare to Traralgon?  it depends how the data is enter to the system
  g00r Locomotive Fireman

I for one am all for public transport, but given how many people complain about crush loads now, imagine the situation when everyone weighs up the cost of petrol vs free ride.

Myki is installed, paid for and is working (relatively) well so may as well leave it in place to collect revenue.  Perhaps it is an argument closer to it's end of life.

What I don't understand is why V/Line are about to start recruiting for ticket office staff at SCS shortly.  Surely people using Myki cards would reduce the need for V/Line tickets.  But, it is the bottomless pit of cash V/Line we're (well, I) are talking about
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
That's interesting, as V/Line fares have always been peak fares for concession riders on the weeked (not sure about full fare as I only ever buy conc. fares).
xxxxlbear
Concession users never got off-peak on the weekend unless if it was on public hoilday


Before 2006 - there was no off peak for anyone on the Inter city between Firday and Monday

Inter-City Off-Peak services
The Inter-City area includes all areas outside the Inter-Urban area and some within southern New South Wales. Inter-City Off-Peak Savers are available on all services departing Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday and the overnight coach departing Mildura on Mondays.
Special conditions
V/Line reserves the right to restrict the use of Off Peak Saver tickets on any date or service. This fare will not be available on the following days:
  • Monday 8th March 2004
  • Wednesday 7th April 2004
  • Thursday 8th April 2004
  • Friday 9th April 2004
  • Monday 12th April 2004
  • Tuesday 13th April 2004
  • Monday 14th June 2004
  • Thursday 23rd December 2004
  • Friday 24th December 2004
  • Saturday 1st January 2005
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I for one am all for public transport, but given how many people complain about crush loads now, imagine the situation when everyone weighs up the cost of petrol vs free ride.

Myki is installed, paid for and is working (relatively) well so may as well leave it in place to collect revenue.  Perhaps it is an argument closer to it's end of life.

What I don't understand is why V/Line are about to start recruiting for ticket office staff at SCS shortly.  Surely people using Myki cards would reduce the need for V/Line tickets.  But, it is the bottomless pit of cash V/Line we're (well, I) are talking about
g00r
Is the ticket office a top-up place?
  dean65 Locomotive Driver

Location: Ballarat
Is the ticket office a top-up place?
railblogger
Yes it is.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
I made a mistake on the location - some how I when I copy and paste, it paste Bendigo instead of Ballarat

When a default fare is charged is it always a peak fare? yes - to make sure peope touch off

And what are the chances that the conductor programs the wrong line so people who don't touch off on the Geelong line get charged a fare to Traralgon?  it depends how the data is enter to the system
melbtrip

Another interesting 'what if'.
There are some trains from Marshall/Sth Geelong/Geelong that regularly run through to Traralgon, and vice versa.
As an example, what about passengers who are travelling through from Geelong to, say, Traralgon.
Q1: Are they expected to leave the train, dash to a touchy feely machine at Southern Cross, touch off, then touch back on again, and madly dash back to Platorm 8South (I think it is) and (hopefully) reclaim their seats?
Q2: How would Myki charge the passenger if the passenger from Geelong stayed on the Traralgon bound train at Southern Cross (or merely left the train and stayed on the platform if requested to leave the train for cleaning purposes) and not touched off and on again?
Q3: If a conductor forgets his/her ticket checking duties, does that mean that a passenger may actually get a free ride on the 2nd sector of their rather long trip if he or she doesn't leave the Southern Cross platform to touch off, then on again?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Another interesting 'what if'.
There are some trains from Marshall/Sth Geelong/Geelong that regularly run through to Traralgon, and vice versa.
As an example, what about passengers who are travelling through from Geelong to, say, Traralgon.
Q1: Are they expected to leave the train, dash to a touchy feely machine at Southern Cross, touch off, then touch back on again, and madly dash back to Platorm 8South (I think it is) and (hopefully) reclaim their seats?
Q2: How would Myki charge the passenger if the passenger from Geelong stayed on the Traralgon bound train at Southern Cross (or merely left the train and stayed on the platform if requested to leave the train for cleaning purposes) and not touched off and on again?
Q3: If a conductor forgets his/her ticket checking duties, does that mean that a passenger may actually get a free ride on the 2nd sector of their rather long trip if he or she doesn't leave the Southern Cross platform to touch off, then on again?
xxxxlbear
1) I'm sure they wouldn't need to. It would be just like changing trains.
2)Apparently when using it on the metro network it is smart enough to work out that a trip from Sunbury to South Morang by train would require travel through Zone 1. I'm assuming it would be the same on V/Line.
3) The fare from Geelong would have covered Zones 1 to 4, so I'd say the free trip would apply to those not covered.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Thanks railblogger. I can see where you are coming from.
I think that I may have read too much into my point re Geelong-Traralgon. Sign of too much coffee perhaps Rolling EyesLaughing
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
http://www.sydneytrains.info/tickets/which/mymulti_day

So that's about $22 for a my multi day ticket.

http://ptv.vic.gov.au/tickets/myki/myki-visitor-pack/
Revenue
And that $22 ticket covers you everywhere, Dungog, Scone, Bathurst, Goulburn and Nowra. So the Victorian equivalent would be to Traralgon, Seymour, Bendigo, Ballarat and Geelong  The weekly version of that $22 Daypass is only $61, an absolute BARGAIN for tourists!

Dave
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
And that $22 ticket covers you everywhere, Dungog, Scone, Bathurst, Goulburn and Nowra. So the Victorian equivalent would be to Traralgon, Seymour, Bendigo, Ballarat and Geelong  The weekly version of that $22 Daypass is only $61, an absolute BARGAIN for tourists!

Dave
thadocta
when Opal card is fully roll out it the following:

Opal card
Daily Travel Cap

You can enjoy travel all day for no more than $15 per day from Monday to Saturday.


Sunday $2.50 Travel Cap

On Sunday travel all day on any mode of transport for no more than $2.50.

Opal
(8 journeys = Weekly Travel Reward)


https://www.opal.com.au/en/fare-information/
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Yes it is.
dean65
In that case they would probably require staff for that purpose. Why they are recruiting could be for a variety of reasons.
  dean65 Locomotive Driver

Location: Ballarat
1) I'm sure they wouldn't need to. It would be just like changing trains.
2)Apparently when using it on the metro network it is smart enough to work out that a trip from Sunbury to South Morang by train would require travel through Zone 1. I'm assuming it would be the same on V/Line.
3) The fare from Geelong would have covered Zones 1 to 4, so I'd say the free trip would apply to those not covered.
railblogger
If you leave from Spencer Street Myki has no way of knowing if you are on a country train. The conductor checking your card must be very important to the process. Have noticed on the Ballarat line that the 3G coverage has improved allowing more Myki cards to be checked.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
If you leave from Spencer Street Myki has no way of knowing if you are on a country train. The conductor checking your card must be very important to the process.
dean65
In this case though you would be leaving from Geelong, so you would most likely be charged the Zone 1-4 fare as default.
Have noticed on the Ballarat line that the 3G coverage has improved allowing more Myki cards to be checked.
dean65
3G coverage shouldn't affect conductor duties as the required data is stored on the card.
  dean65 Locomotive Driver

Location: Ballarat

3G coverage shouldn't affect conductor duties as the required data is stored on the card.
railblogger
Was not aware of that factor.
  g00r Locomotive Fireman

Was not aware of that factor.
"dean65"


Your card stores;

Touch on/off status
last 5 transactions
Card type (seniors/adult/staff/concession)
Myki pass details
Balance
And next Saturday's lotto numbers

Transactions on hand holds I assume sync with the master database (Myki HQ) at night just as trams and buses do when they get back to the depot (and are in wifi range)

Conductor units can only touch on, not off.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Your card stores;

Touch on/off status
last 5 transactions
Card type (seniors/adult/staff/concession)
Myki pass details
Balance
And next Saturday's lotto numbersTransactions on hand holds I assume sync with the master database (Myki HQ) at night just as trams and buses do when they get back to the depot (and are in wifi range)

Conductor units can only touch on, not off.
g00r
Next Saturdays lotto numbers ShockedLaughing
Now that is a part of Myki that Revenue hasn't told us about! Very Happy
  v-locity Station Master

Location: The Frankston Line
I had purchased a new card about 3 months ago from 7/11 and last week just wasn't working properly. Yesterday it wouldn't work at all.. The station staff checked it to find it was dead.. I had lost about 7 dollars that was on it so was lucky he issued me a new one but had to top it up and put about 4 dollars on it. Embarassed
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
I had purchased a new card about 3 months ago from 7/11 and last week just wasn't working properly. Yesterday it wouldn't work at all.. The station staff checked it to find it was dead.. I had lost about 7 dollars that was on it so was lucky he issued me a new one but had to top it up and put about 4 dollars on it. Embarassed
v-locity

from ptv website

Replace a myki that has stopped workingIf your myki has stopped working, simply visit a staffed station and they will provide you with a free replacement card of the same type. Your card that is no longer working will be linked to the replacement card and any balance will be transferred as part of the replacement process.
If you had a myki pass, please allow 36 hours for your remaining pass days to be available on your replacement myki.
If you had myki money, please allow up to 7 days for your myki money balance to be available on your replacement myki.
You will need to top up your replacement myki if you need to travel before your balance transfer is available.
If your myki that stopped working was registered, your replacement myki will also be automatically registered.
If you had auto top up on your old myki, this service will not be transferred to your replacement myki. To continue to travel using auto top up, you will need to set up auto top up again.

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