http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoiG6CVIeNM&feature=youtu.be

Gladys: ah, we are not focused on what these things cost, but what it means for the customer experience.

In other words, the latest restructure cost rather a lot and I don't wan't to tell you because I fear your reaction after you realise not much has changed for commuters.

Gladys: ah, we are not focused on what these things cost, but what it means for the customer experience.

In other words, the latest restructure cost rather a lot and I don't wan't to tell you because I fear your reaction after you realise not much has changed for commuters.

In other words the costs doesn't justify the results.

In other words the costs doesn't justify the results.

Precisely.

I'm quite amused to see everyone passing judgement so early on in the piece. These things cannot simply be fixed overnight...

I'm sorry, but I don't see how wasting copious amounts of money on re-branding (removing and putting up new logos on train), redesigning of station signage, changing uniforms will fix anything. It may improve customer service, but that's about it. They should have left the branding alone and spent it elsewhere. As for dividing the company into two... what's the bet that they will be combined again?

If something is funded by tax payers then the government should show how much of the tax payers' money was spent on it. One need not focus on it to show it.

The new uniforms look cheap and tacky on real railstaff. Ill-fitting orange polyester  shirts and baggy trousers do not inspire confidence or improve customer service. What were they thinking?....

I'm quite amused to see everyone passing judgement so early on in the piece. These things cannot simply be fixed overnight...

But what they are fixing doesn't need to be fixed IMHO and to everyday commuters I have spoken to.
They want, clean,safe,reliable,on time services, clean stations and to feel secure on them etc.

Heard on the radio today that the "Hop" logo has been deemed too close to the Tennis Australia logo and has to be changed.

Anyone heard any more on this?

Nothing online I can see to that affect, but if/when that day comes a lot of taxpayer $$$ to be spent removing the logo, and then designing/implementing a new one.

But what they are fixing doesn't need to be fixed IMHO and to everyday commuters I have spoken to.
They want, clean,safe,reliable,on time services, clean stations and to feel secure on them etc.

Mmmmmm indeed... but instead we have a bit of plastic surgery and possibly somewhat improved services, not that we actually needed a complete rebranding to satisfy any of those real customer demands. Oh, how I love it when politicians try to fool me with paintjobs and propaganda.

Nothing online I can see to that affect, but if/when that day comes a lot of taxpayer $$$ to be spent removing the logo, and then designing/implementing a new one.

As for dividing the company into two... what's the bet that they will be combined again?

I think we can be fairly confident that the logo change will happen again at some point, anyway, because despite the talk of "this time it's really different", I don't see how. And structure? Either it will be re-amalgamated or privatisation of the railways will resume. We can easily dig up the politicians spinning us BS about past restructures and what benefits they would provide, then check the stats, reports, ask the customers and staff (some of whom date back to the pre PTC era). The SRA went through about 3-4 major phases from 1980 to 2004 with 3 logos excluding CityRail and Countrylink. RailCorp had 2-3 major phases and 2-3 logos in 9 years with minimal changes for passengers and cost blowouts for taxpayers despite staff cuts, TNSW became TfNSW in a couple of years and is a ballooning bureaucratic empire in itself, hiding some of the bureaucratic fat that used to be in RailCorp/SRA/RIC/TIDC as if it no longer existed. I'd be surprised if Sydney Trains wasn't affected by the same disease, not terminal but chronic. That's the background we're working with here and it has not changed, not that I think Sydney's rail network is bad by all measures; changing things that don't need changing is the problem.

ZordmakerIt needs to be darker. Oh yes, and it needs to cover the whole train. And the train needs to be single deck, and the windows need to open. And if possible, get rid of the doors too... ZM

I'll take one of them, thank you.

But what they are fixing doesn't need to be fixed IMHO and to everyday commuters I have spoken to.
They want, clean,safe,reliable,on time services, clean stations and to feel secure on them etc.

They're not just rebranding it and continuing with "business as usual", there's a lot going on behind the scenes too.

It could work out really well in the long run.

It could fall down in a heap.

Only history can judge that - all of the experts rushing in now with their limited data and preconceived anti-CityRail/anti-Liberal/anti-anything standpoints are just shooting from the hip without actually waiting to see what happens.

The network was a real mess from 2003-2005. It was a disgrace. It's steadily been improving ever since. It takes time, is it not possible that, with a bit more time, things can get even better? Certainly the first half of 2013 has seen a backslide in reliability. Nobody can deny that. Why are people so quick to judge the future? Too many experts here, not enough people willing to just sit back and see what happens before shooting their keyboards off with negativity. It seems that, as a movement, rail enthusiasts have been brainwashed by years of negative reporting in the Telegraph, and can no longer think for themselves. Forums like these have become less about enthusiasm for the railways, and more about "everything they do is wrong, bring back 3801 hauled suburban trains, I remember in my day, people pissed money and the railways ran on time every day and every train was super comfortable and I got a lapdance in the afternoon peak".

It's old.

Nothing online I can see to that affect, but if/when that day comes a lot of taxpayer $$$ to be spent removing the logo, and then designing/implementing a new one.

No need to use tax payer money; just start fining all the station platform smokers and the money will roll right in.

They're not just rebranding it and continuing with "business as usual", there's a lot going on behind the scenes too.

It could work out really well in the long run.

Yes and I hope it does work out really well, but it probably won't have anything to do with the rebranding, plastic surgery or the break ups.

Why are people so quick to judge the future? Too many experts here, not enough people willing to just sit back and see what happens before shooting their keyboards off with negativity. It seems that, as a movement, rail enthusiasts have been brainwashed by years of negative reporting in the Telegraph, and can no longer think for themselves.

I wish it was only a case of bad reporting in The Daily Telegraph, not that what they say is necessarily true, but who needs them when you know what is going on behind the scenes? Forget about the bloody Telegraph...

Forums like these have become less about enthusiasm for the railways, and more about "everything they do is wrong, bring back 3801 hauled suburban trains, I remember in my day, people pissed money and the railways ran on time every day and every train was super comfortable and I got a lapdance in the afternoon peak".

That was the best thing I've read all year.

I've come to the conclusion that this isn't supposed to be a small change, an edit to the usual, or even an "enhancement". This is supposed to be a game-changing moment, the biggest thing since the breakup of the PTC, whatever. I don't know how big it really is, but even though much of it could well just be hype, the fact is that we're seeing change. Big change.

Will it be a change for the better, heralding a glorious new era? Or will it be a complete and utter disaster, plunging us into deeper depths than Granville? I don't know - I'm going to wait and see. If it works out, great. If not, "mistakes were made" and we can scorn it in the history books.

Railfans are complaining that this is all hype and marketing. I'll be honest here - the biggest over-hyping is coming from us railfans ourselves, especially when we whinge and whine about how we should bring back wing-backed chairs and wood stoves.

Will it be a change for the better, heralding a glorious new era? Or will it be a complete and utter disaster, plunging us into deeper depths than Granville?

I don't think there will be many extremes - good or bad - arising from the latest restructure; I have not seen much serious suggestion that we are headed for disaster because of it and don't believe that myself. The government is saying that "the future of rail in NSW has never been so exciting" and I just don't see it at the moment.

Aside from the minister's propaganda and think tank plans for the future there is evidence that "Sydney Trains" is simply being plastered over "RailCorp", which was itself plastered over SRA, on official paperwork written by mostly the same people with a few different job titles but running much the same organisation, the same people being shuffled around SRA/RailCorp/TfNSW and now Sydney Trains, new faces mainly right at the top or in non operational roles who may, Howard Collins perhaps excepted, depend on the existing structures beneath them to get their job done, and a lot of undervalued knowledge and experience being lost through redundancies and retirement, never to return. It's still early days, so those factors might not mean anything, but maybe they do.

Given the number of people working on it, it's reasonable to expect modest improvements like better communication with customers - always welcome, but RailCorp was heading down that path anyway and we didn't need rebranding to achieve it. SRA/RIC/RailCorp already lost planning functions to TIDC/TCA/TfNSW supposedly to improve organizational focus etc. The puzzle has been rearranged but many of the pieces are the same; cash is still needed to make drastic changes, government decides where to send that money and whether to rob Peter to pay Paul in the process - whether Peter and Paul are now in different entities may not matter. We can't escape the fact that NSW is a large area to look after with high costs, low population, limited resources and dysfunctional government. The results are probably never going to be out of this world.

In any case, bitching about logos, uniforms, signs and bureaucratic disease as many have done is not the same as condemning the whole network to dismal failure, and I don't mean to do that. There are a lot of good people doing a good job and I truly wish the Sydney rail network all the best for the future.

Fixing the trains? How about fixing the *passengers or politely educating them with mass marketing campaigns across all forms of media.
I would like to see food and drinks banned from Sydney Trains. Obviously that can't be done just yet because not all of the fleet is air-conditioned in regards to summer. NSW trains would be a different story because of the distance and time spent traveling.

*Customers that buy tickets respect the service.
*Passengers that don't buy tickets rubbish the trains.
*Vandals don't buy tickets period!

Even if Sydney trains becomes the envy of railways around the world. The people using the service need to change with it.

But what they are fixing doesn't need to be fixed IMHO and to everyday commuters I have spoken to.
They want, clean,safe,reliable,on time services, clean stations and to feel secure on them etc.

That costs real money...

Restructures - look good on someone's resume

Just changing the subject a little here, I know this is a point of further discussion but I wanted to see what everyone else thinks of this. With some S sets being kept at this stage to help with additional capacity, would the NSW and TfNSW consider developing or modifying the a new fleet of OSCars (which they wouldn't be called that). That have no toilets and new branding on them as a way of creating more air con services and consider making this the replacement of the last remaining S sets??

Just a thought because the OSCars do actually do a heck of a lot of commuter services within the Sydney Trains metro area (even thought they are considered stock for NSW TrainLink). Just an idea and my pure inquisitive mind, but I think this would be a valid consideration for TfNSW

Sorry, I've misled you on the Comeng vehicles originally numbered C3805 - C3857.
Because thses cars were ordered and delivered as painted stock, the normal Budd side fluting was not used on these vehicles.
All other Comeng cars had the standard Budd side fluting.

Fixing the trains? How about fixing the *passengers or politely educating them with mass marketing campaigns across all forms of media.

That's something I'd like to see them work on but I think the real problem is much bigger than the railway itself, it's a broader societal/cultural issue.

The people using the service need to change with it.

They also need to be realistic about what is achievable in a place like NSW lol... As the late Ian Macfarlane said, it should be the best. Once upon a time it was up there with the best. Then what happened? It got left behind, bogged down in politics and red tape, regulation, financial constraints, abused etc. but in some ways it is still pretty good. One day we might not be able to afford a lot of the BS we carry on with now and things might actually work better, even if it's just because our expectations change.

the Comeng vehicles originally numbered C3805 - C3857.
these cars were ordered and delivered as painted stock, the normal Budd side fluting was not used on these vehicles.

The best looking of the DD suburban stock, if you ask me

Heard on the radio today that the "Hop" logo has been deemed too close to the Tennis Australia logo and has to be changed.

Anyone heard any more on this?

Heard some rumblings about this recently.

Why the government didn't use the Waratah logo is beyond me.

Rumblings and logos.
The hop is in trouble. Tennis Australia and a legal thing just went down.
We could see Sydney Trains change the logo again real soon.

anyone heard the latest on Train crew uniform ? What it will be and when it will be issued

I don't think there will be many extremes - good or bad - arising from the latest restructure; I have not seen much serious suggestion that we are headed for disaster because of it and don't believe that myself. The government is saying that "the future of rail in NSW has never been so exciting" and I just don't see it at the moment.

Aside from the minister's propaganda and think tank plans for the future there is evidence that "Sydney Trains" is simply being plastered over "RailCorp", which was itself plastered over SRA, on official paperwork written by mostly the same people with a few different job titles but running much the same organisation, the same people being shuffled around SRA/RailCorp/TfNSW and now Sydney Trains, new faces mainly right at the top or in non operational roles who may, Howard Collins perhaps excepted, depend on the existing structures beneath them to get their job done, and a lot of undervalued knowledge and experience being lost through redundancies and retirement, never to return. It's still early days, so those factors might not mean anything, but maybe they do.

Given the number of people working on it, it's reasonable to expect modest improvements like better communication with customers - always welcome, but RailCorp was heading down that path anyway and we didn't need rebranding to achieve it. SRA/RIC/RailCorp already lost planning functions to TIDC/TCA/TfNSW supposedly to improve organizational focus etc. The puzzle has been rearranged but many of the pieces are the same; cash is still needed to make drastic changes, government decides where to send that money and whether to rob Peter to pay Paul in the process - whether Peter and Paul are now in different entities may not matter. We can't escape the fact that NSW is a large area to look after with high costs, low population, limited resources and dysfunctional government. The results are probably never going to be out of this world.

In any case, bitching about logos, uniforms, signs and bureaucratic disease as many have done is not the same as condemning the whole network to dismal failure, and I don't mean to do that. There are a lot of good people doing a good job and I truly wish the Sydney rail network all the best for the future.

Exactly, the phrase "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic" comes to mind.
I truly hope things change for the better, but when you have basically the same people in the roles and taking away managers where they are needed, it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.