Boat People - where to now!

 
  Carnot Minister for Railways

OK...

- the pull is all Labor's fault

- they're mostly economic refugees

- the global refugee situation is the same as 2007

Once the word gets out that the LNP is in, the boats will stop (is stopping them still the party line?)

... if they still come, then what?
cootanee
They're mostly not economic refugees, and I doubt things will get any better.  Just have a look at the Middle East, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc atm.

So the LNP come to power.  They say they'll turn the boats back to Indonesia.  But will that work?  Probably not.  It may deter or delay some of the 40000 in Indonesia right now who intend on coming anyway.  So what about processing them in Indonesia?  Indo Govt says "nope, too hard - give us $$$$$ and we might think about it".

Perhaps Australia might tear up their signed agreement to the UN Refugee convention.  That would look great while we sit on the UN Security Council....

To be honest, maybe the best solution is the partitioning of some of these countries between Sunni/Shi'a, create an Assyrian/Christian homeland in the Middle East, etc etc.  But governments in those areas are utterly resistant to do so.  But then again there was East Timor circa 1999....

Sponsored advertisement

  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Agree with you... up to a point.

When people turn up (plane, boat or UFO) by all means send them back (every one of them). No problem if that's our policy. How that sits with peoples conscience and if Christian how they reconcile that with their god?

As for speaking English (Australian !) as your first barrier to acceptance as an immigrant. What are the assumptions behind that - they are all uneducated, won't assimilate and are incapable of learning English. You would have precluded most of non UK WW2 migration.
cootanee
I was more targetting to help those who are at least trying. While in a dention centre or even prior to leaving their home land. My grandfather studied english on the boat to Australia from Holland in 1946, I'm sure others in the 21st century can manage. I'm not saying be able to pass Year 12 top level english, but have something. I was able to survive in India with a Hindi vocab of about 100 words and numbers,
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
But we're not.
Greece has to deal with over 130000 per year!
http://www.migrationinformation.org/Profiles/display.cfm?ID=884

Italy are likewise struggling with massive numbers arriving by boat from North Africa and the Middle East:
http://www.euronews.com/2013/06/16/hundreds-of-migrants-try-to-enter-italy-by-boat/

I'm not denying Australia has a problem with IMAs, but we're not alone.
Carnot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee

those countries will have much higher numbers due to their location. One think to ride a boat across the Mediterrain Sea and another to sail from Sub-cont to Australia in an aging fishing boat past numerous sources of pirates.

Many of the countries taking more than us also have bigger domestic populations and in case of Europe much lower birth rates. Basically each country needs to do what it can with the resources it has. However there must be a deteriant to prevent this getting more out of hand than it already is. If we simply opened the door, how many do we think we would get. Probably millions from Indo alone.

LNP are wrong when they say will turn boats around, around to where? I don't see why they cannot be processed in Australia, but if people think they are going to be housed in downtown Sydney suburbia, they should think again. Their accommdation needs to be humane and better than prison standards, but it cannot be in the public domain. Once processed and approved and this should be done within 2 years, intergration into society needs to be managed. But the process can start in the "camp". ie learning English, way of live, even things like who sells what. Job options and potential training.

Australia has abotu 22m people, I would have though 20,000 to 50,000 a year is probably the most we could absorb.

Regards
Shane
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Now it's becoming a bit more sensible a discussion. Smile

As I've said several times I'd love the boats to stop, I don't think they will stop, I wouldn't be surprised if they increase once Afghanistan starts to go the way I suspect it will - and Iraq?

Once they get here surely you can't treat them worst than we treat 'real' crims here. They need proper camps under humane conditions until they can be processed. It costs money yes - but in the scheme of things.

What goes around... if one day Australia has some great misfortune how do we want the rest of the world to treat us.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
What goes around... if one day Australia has some great misfortune how do we want the rest of the world to treat us.
cootanee

Well, you won't find this little black duck hopping on a boat to Indonesia, hell I wouldn't do it first class by air Rolling Eyes
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Well, you won't find this little black duck hopping on a boat to Indonesia, hell I wouldn't do it first class by air Rolling Eyes
TheBlacksmith
+1!
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
The interaction between Australia and Indonesia may be very interesting in the next few decades.

Indonesia's economy is taking off, a growing middle class and the largest proportion of Muslims of an country in the world. Recent statements suggest they are looking to grow their military capability to reflect their status in the world and Australia got a mention.

Forget the shock-jocks' reds under the bed or Jul####... if Indonesia goes pop Exclamation
  PaulAustin Locomotive Fireman

Does anyone remember those ads put out by the refugee supporters?

"My only choice was to put my son on a boat"
most people i know here in TAS found the voice actress hillarious and over-the-top rather than heart string tugging.
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
Three boats arrived yesterday. If the trend continues this won't do the country's finances any good.  As it stands the debt ceiling looks like it may have to be lifted above $320 billion if things continue to go from bad to worse and meanwhile Juliar just sits back and couldn't give a damn.
  Grantham Minister for Railways

Location: I'm with stupid!
Wow, the whole "boat people" discussion is incredibly condescending, as though refugees are primitive peoples, who only come from third world countries in leaky boats, or economic refugees who are greedy bludgers, or rubbish like that.

I suppose nobody can think of a time when there were refugees from first world countries? Half (only a slight exaggeration!) the population of a first world continent were refugees not that long ago (70 years or so) and we are too arrogant to think it will ever happen to us. We were lucky last time and the time before. Anyone who thinks all that is over is having themselves on.  

Hands up: who wants to reap what you sow?

M
  Speed Minister for Railways

They are Indonesian boats with Indonesian captains leaving Indonesian waters and unable to account for the cargo on board. They belong to Indonesia.
"Donald"
When Australia intercepts them, they're in Australian territorial waters. Australia has been intercepting boats in its waters and forbidding unworthy vessels from entering Australian waters for years. Smugglers have reacted by sabotaging the boats so that they are sinking when Australian authorities arrive and the passengers need to be rescued immediately.

When Abbott has gone beyond the "stop the boats" slogan, he has used the words "tow the boats back to Indonesia" (although not as often as "when it's safe to do so"). That means that an Australian naval ship, or other government vessel, needs to sail into an Indonesian harbour. That is something that can't be done without the assent of the Indonesian government, its national customs service and its local port authorities.

People at both ends of the argument argue that Australia should disregard Indonesian territorial sovereignty to achieve their end ie either collecting people on sinking smugglers' boats or battling smugglers' boats back. Without government consent, either type of impingement is unnecessary and would just anger Indonesian Government and many Indonesian voters.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
When Australia intercepts them, they're in Australian territorial waters. Australia has been intercepting boats in its waters and forbidding unworthy vessels from entering Australian waters for years. Smugglers have reacted by sabotaging the boats so that they are sinking when Australian authorities arrive and the passengers need to be rescued immediately.

When Abbott has gone beyond the "stop the boats" slogan, he has used the words "tow the boats back to Indonesia" (although not as often as "when it's safe to do so"). That means that an Australian naval ship, or other government vessel, needs to sail into an Indonesian harbour. That is something that can't be done without the assent of the Indonesian government, its national customs service and its local port authorities.

People at both ends of the argument argue that Australia should disregard Indonesian territorial sovereignty to achieve their end ie either collecting people on sinking smugglers' boats or battling smugglers' boats back. Without government consent, either type of impingement is unnecessary and would just anger Indonesian Government and many Indonesian voters.
Speed

Rosemary Mathlin at the Refugee Review Tribunal granted a complimentary (Clayton's) visa to an Iraqi taxi-driver who committed adultery with one of his passengers, and was in well-founded fear for his life from that agrieved passenger's husband (and his gun).

Rosemary will soon be dealing with visas for 500,000 workers in Bangladesh working in collapsible factory, where they have a well-founded fear for their lives.

Rosemary might also study the latest collapsible building in Mumbai:

See: http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=881808

These people are clearly persecuted, and are not in the slightest "economic migrants".
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Three boats arrived yesterday. If the trend continues this won't do the country's finances any good.  As it stands the debt ceiling looks like it may have to be lifted above $320 billion if things continue to go from bad to worse and meanwhile Juliar just sits back and couldn't give a damn.
2301

Yep... boat people will drive the country broke Laughing

So who told you the PM doesn't give a damn???

P.S. Can't you do better than parrot the nasty name calling. If you think it strengthens your 'case'. Rolling Eyes
  Albert Chief Commissioner

If Howard stopped the boats, why was there a need for him to tow them back?
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Boat People concerns = Redneck fears.
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
Three boats arrived yesterday. If the trend continues this won't do the country's finances any good.  As it stands the debt ceiling looks like it may have to be lifted above $320 billion if things continue to go from bad to worse and meanwhile Juliar just sits back and couldn't give a damn.
2301
And?

Boat people will continue to arrive no matter who is in power. There are boats arriving every week that you don't hear about, and have been for years (even during, and before Little Johnny's reign - remember the "Tampa" fiasco?). Perhaps it might pay to actually think about who is feeding you this information, and why. If it is Channel 7, and the Herald Sun, then I rest my case. How does blaming Julia Gillard help matters? She wasn't the one who told them to get on a boat, and come out here. The fact that the issue of boat people seems to only really pop up when a federal election is on the horizon, should send off alarm bells in one's head.

Most of your posts are inflammetry to say the least. They do not provoke any thought, they only show ignorance to the subject you are trying to add your opinion to. Post anymore more of this drivel, 2301, and I will warn you heavily. Your ignorance on this subject is offensive.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Where's the Like button.....
  PaulAustin Locomotive Fireman

You know calling people "rednecks" is a *great* way of not winning hearts and minds!
More proof that the university-educated left-wing elite hate the working class.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
More proof that the university-educated left-wing elite hate the working class.
"PaulAustin"


Another superb example of absolute drivel.  Where do you people get these crackpot ideas?
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Another superb example of absolute drivel.  Where do you people get these crackpot ideas?
Valvegear

Well the LNP is now saying it's a broad church. Wink

Yep... tell people what to fear, who to blame, repeat it often enough and watch the ratings/votes come in. Rolling Eyes
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
What would happen if we tied a large slice of our aid to Indonesia to a reduction in boats from there? Alternatively use that aid to buy the boats direct (for what the owners would get for a single trip to Australia ????) and sink or burn them.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Rosemary Mathlin at the Refugee Review Tribunal granted a complimentary (Clayton's) visa to an Iraqi taxi-driver who committed adultery with one of his passengers, and was in well-founded fear for his life from that agrieved passenger's husband (and his gun).

Rosemary will soon be dealing with visas for 500,000 workers in Bangladesh working in collapsible factories, where they have a well-founded fear for their lives.

Rosemary might also study the latest collapsible building in Mumbai:

See: http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=881808

These people are clearly persecuted, and are not in the slightest "economic migrants".
awsgc24

The SMH reports pleas from Bangladesh to help refugees from collapsible factories to be saved from a cruel and inhuman fate worse than death.

See: http://smh.digitaleditions.com.au/olive/ode/smh_daily/
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
And?

Boat people will continue to arrive no matter who is in power. There are boats arriving every week that you don't hear about, and have been for years (even during, and before Little Johnny's reign - remember the "Tampa" fiasco?). Perhaps it might pay to actually think about who is feeding you this information, and why. If it is Channel 7, and the Herald Sun, then I rest my case. How does blaming Julia Gillard help matters? She wasn't the one who told them to get on a boat, and come out here. The fact that the issue of boat people seems to only really pop up when a federal election is on the horizon, should send off alarm bells in one's head.

Most of your posts are inflammetry to say the least. They do not provoke any thought, they only show ignorance to the subject you are trying to add your opinion to. Post anymore more of this drivel, 2301, and I will warn you heavily. Your ignorance on this subject is offensive.
Barrington Womble

Well, I am blaming Julia AND the Labor party because their policies are clearly contributing to the problem.  They were the ones that got rid of mandatory detention, closed down off shore processing and stopped temporary protection visas and in the process sent the signal to the people smugglers and their customers that Australia is open for business if you have a wad of cash in your pocket.  You say Julia wasn't the one who told them to get on the boats...but, you don't think that their policies aren't having some effect on this crisis? Indonesia keeps telling  Australia to take the sugar off the table.

I believe you are drawing a long bow by saying that this issue is only being brought up because of the election, really.  This issue has been festering for the last few years and why shouldn't it be an election issue, after all it is costing everyone a fortune and has major implications for the country not just financially but also for national security and social cohesion.

I can't see anywhere where I have been inflammetry apart from referring to Julia as Juliar, because she has clearly lied and misled the public numerous times.  If you hold public office you are open to satire and ridicule-an underpinning fundamental of democracy. What about the names people throw at Abbott and Howard?, and why shouldn't anyone who holds public office be subjected to that no matter what party you represent?, especially if they are clearly doing a bad job.  Yes little Johnny.

All I am doing is debating the subject, because everyone has different opinions about this topic and good on them, their entitled to their opinion and I will defend their right to it, but just because you think my ignorance is offensive, well that is subjective to say the least because I could say that about you but I refrain.  Don't you think you are being kind of dictatorial in your attitude?

If you don't want to discuss, talk or debate the issue, well then what is the point of this site?
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
Yep... boat people will drive the country broke Laughing

So who told you the PM doesn't give a damn???

P.S. Can't you do better than parrot the nasty name calling. If you think it strengthens your 'case'. Rolling Eyes
cootanee

Because the Labor party are clearly not governing as they are too busy trying to sort out their problems, but that's probably in my imagination too, or I am watching the media.........OMG I shouldn't watch TV or read a newspaper now should I because at the end of the day that could be mind altering.

You don't think that the border issue is not costing the Government, you, me and all taxpayers any money......really?

I pose a question to you...........How much of your personal income are you prepared to fore go in extra taxation?

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.