It's the Tony Abbott Show!

 
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Time for Mr Abbott to remember he's now the PM representing all Australians, not just the small minded, tight Rsed ones.  Rolling Eyes
Groundrelay

As against the loose a*sed ones?

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  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
First this WTF!

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/abbott-makes-waves-with-republicans/story-fn59nm2j-1226733848003

now this

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbotts-alp-criticism-could-affect-us-links-20131027-2w9lv.html

Time for Mr Abbott to remember he's now the PM representing all Australians, not just the small minded, tight Rsed ones.  Rolling Eyes
Groundrelay

And may I ask you who Gillard/Krudd represented; apart from themselves and their party factions?
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
They weren't representing me that's for sure!
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
fabricator will have no trouble pointing me to a budget paper with the NBN on it I am sure... No, that's right he can't, IT'S NOT BUDGETED!

The NBN is not properly costed, and the $3bn contingency will be less than 10% of what is actually required in contingencies. In August Mike Quigley admitted to needing to make additional payments over those expected of $5bn already.

I am not sure that my 'grossly behind schedule' is a fair representation of the NBN's actual position. Presently, less than 10% of their to date target for connections has been achieved... The half million customers target is in the rear view mirror now, expected in June of this year, the actual number connected when we overtook that target? LESS THAN 30,000! By now we're beyond the 600,000 point now, and the last number of connections I saw was below 50,000.

I have run out of time, so I won't get to further demolish the 'assumptions' (which were actually just typical dumb labor guesses) behind the 'costing' until later today.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Fibre to the home, especially in rural and regional areas, was just going to be way too expensive; maybe it's not a bad thing Labor's NBN is getting junked.  We used to have a history of 'equalisation' that provided equivalent services to people living in the country (think SEC, PMG); now days most people living in the major capitals are blissfully unaware that people actually live beyond the outer suburbs and they certainly weren't interested in spending tens of billions so that said country dwellers can have services like super-fast broadband.  The public wasn't really behind it; the Coalition correctly interpreted the mood.  That's how I see the situation anyway.

Just as an update on something I mentioned on the last page - there is a story in the news tonight about Attorney General George Brandis deciding to uphold the ban on Huawei being involved in any broadband construction in Australia.  The Chinese have already reacted by saying we are using 'national security' as an excuse to lock them out of a lucrative commercial contract; George Brandis wouldn't specify what the advice was other than to say they were backing the previous government's advice, citing 'security concerns'.

No doubt this will be a significant stumbling block to any Free Trade Agreement with the Chinese.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Just as an update on something I mentioned on the last page - there is a story in the news tonight about Attorney General George Brandis deciding to uphold the ban on Huawei being involved in any broadband construction in Australia.
"don_dunstan"
Good!

The Chinese have already reacted by saying we are using 'national security' as an excuse to lock them out of a lucrative commercial contract; George Brandis wouldn't specify what the advice was other than to say they were backing the previous government's advice, citing 'security concerns'.
"don_dunstan"
At least the yanks do their own hard yards with their spying... If the Chinese want to spy on us, good luck to them, I get literally several emails a day that would be rivetingly exciting for them, but they should have to do their own hard work to read all my erectile dysfunction, Nigerian gold, and winning the UK's biggest lottery emails...

No doubt this will be a significant stumbling block to any Free Trade Agreement with the Chinese.
"don_dunstan"
I don't have a problem with that either.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Huawei and the Chinese Government won't be letting us off that easily; the Chinese Foreign Ministry has released a statement saying it's anti-competitive.
I was also surprised to see Huawei have employed some prominent ex-politicians to go in to bat for them including Alexander Downer and John Brumby.  As we were discussing on another thread, if you're a rent-seeking big corporation you need to hire some ex-politicians or you won't get heard - they took all the right steps and still didn't get a result. Maybe the security concerns about Huawei are legitimate but at the same time it's going to be really hard for us, a relatively small resource-based economy, to tell the second-most powerful country on earth what they can and can't do. The Chinese government is a huge autocratic machine, they don't like being told 'no'.

It's the real challenge of the 21st century really isn't it - who's side are you on?  Malcolm Fraser wrote an interesting opinion piece in Fairfax recently saying that Abbott is ultimately going to be wedged by the Chinese over trade and that eventually they'll make us choose between the USA and the People's Republic. The curse of living in interesting times...
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
It's the real challenge of the 21st century really isn't it - who's side are you on?  Malcolm Fraser wrote an interesting opinion piece in Fairfax recently saying that Abbott is ultimately going to be wedged by the Chinese over trade and that eventually they'll make us choose between the USA and the People's Republic. The curse of living in interesting times...
don_dunstan
Does it really matter ? And what can we do about it anyway?

For the first half of our existence, Australia was screwed over, trade wise, by the bloody poms, then it was the yanks, now it is Asia. Nothing changes, we just bend over and take it.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Does it really matter ? And what can we do about it anyway?
TheBlacksmith
Agreed but we could start by thinking about these things more strategically instead of kow-towing to foreign powers... it will be hard to do since we're used to selling ourselves out but maybe, just maybe, now is the time.

We should start by looking at these Free-Trade Agreements.  Note how the last refrigerator plant in the country sold up and went to Thailand - any coincidence that we happen to have an FTA with that country?  When that FTA with Thailand was signed we were told that Ford Australia would be exporting more cars to Thailand and (surprise) what happens instead?  Maybe we should start asserting our independence by looking more carefully at who is actually benefiting from these things.  Certainly not Aussie workers or farmers from what I can see.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
It's interesting the more you read about Huawei and the NBN tender. The ABC had an interesting analysis today (albeit written by Michael Danby) about the reasons behind the decision; apparently one of Huawei's problem areas is their capacity to lift information out of systems without that diversion being detected.  It's a primary reason why they were arbitrarily excluded from any US Government work; instances of huge unexplained data dumps and accusations of industrial espionage seem to be associated with the company's US operations and in July a former CIA deputy alleged Huawei was actually a part of the Chinese international intelligence-gathering machine.

It's also apparent that they've worked very, very hard to enamour themselves with our political machine.  Julie Bishop and Andrew Robb have been 'guests' of Huawei in China and have accepted hospitality and gifts from the company (including tablets and phones - not sure if I'd be using them for any government business though!) and there's a lot of internal pressure from the Liberal party to let the Chinese at least tender for work to complete the revised NBN.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Well, now I've seen it all.
On national television last night, the 2013 Science Awards were being presented by Tony Abbott. Yes; Tony Abbott - the only Prime Minister since 1931, when the portfolio was first established, to preside over a Cabinet that does not include a Minister for Science. The same Tony Abbott who famously said that the opinions on climate change by literally thousands of scientists world-wide, is "hogwash".
Having Abbott present Science Awards is about as logical as having Cardinall Pell present the awards at the Atheists' Convention.
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
Well, now I've seen it all.
On national television last night, the 2013 Science Awards were being presented by Tony Abbott. Yes; Tony Abbott - the only Prime Minister since 1931, when the portfolio was first established, to preside over a Cabinet that does not include a Minister for Science. The same Tony Abbott who famously said that the opinions on climate change by literally thousands of scientists world-wide, is "hogwash".
Having Abbott present Science Awards is about as logical as having Cardinall Pell present the awards at the Atheists' Convention.
Valvegear

But it is "hogwash" because all the hypothesis are inconclusive.  Climate change has always been happening and it is only common sense to derive at the conclusion that the climate is an ever changing thing.

Also, how can we mortals take climate change seriously when we have so called experts like Tim Flannery (who ironically does not hold any formal qualifications relating to this particular branch of science) buying a house right on the waterfront when he is always going on about rising sea levels?  It is nothing but climate alarmism used to stifle the economy so certain people can implement their agenda.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

But it is "hogwash" because all the hypothesis are inconclusive.  Climate change has always been happening and it is only common sense to derive at the conclusion that the climate is an ever changing thing.

Also, how can we mortals take climate change seriously when we have so called experts like Tim Flannery (who ironically does not hold any formal qualifications relating to this particular branch of science) buying a house right on the waterfront when he is always going on about rising sea levels?  It is nothing but climate alarmism used to stifle the economy so certain people can implement their agenda.
"2301"


There is no dought, that Tm Flannery and the like, over egged the pudding, in relation to climate change.
On the opposite end, of the spectrum, Tony has described climate change as crap.

I would argue that the truth, lies somewhere in between. I'm not a "greenie" in any way, shape or form, but, I' m totally convinced that mans use of fossil fuels IS having an impact on the climate. The only grey area is how much?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I would argue that the truth, lies somewhere in between. I'm not a "greenie" in any way, shape or form, but, I' m totally convinced that mans use of fossil fuels IS having an impact on the climate. The only grey area is how much?
michaelgm
You can't continue to burn squillions of tons of coal and oil and not expect something to happen.  There has to be consequences for altering the atmospheric balance radically in this way - anyone who thinks it's always going to be 'business as usual' just doesn't understand that our planet is actually a sealed system with finite resources.

I'm with you - I'm somewhere in-between the alarmists and the deniers... I just don't know what the impact will be.  I'm sure we'll find out in our lifetimes though.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
You can't continue to burn squillions of tons of coal and oil and not expect something to happen.  There has to be consequences for altering the atmospheric balance radically in this way - anyone who thinks it's always going to be 'business as usual' just doesn't understand that our planet is actually a sealed system with finite resources.

I'm with you - I'm somewhere in-between the alarmists and the deniers... I just don't know what the impact will be.  I'm sure we'll find out in our lifetimes though.
don_dunstan
Don, it is not actually a sealed system.   Gases can escape from the Earth's system and likewise that big ball of fire 93m km away does have an impact on the system.

What my problem with the global warming settled science is this
Theory - more CO2 = higher temps.
Data - use umpteem thousand computer models to predict what could happen.
Result - It's settled.

Should be  Data - CO2 is going up at extremely high rate.   Temps rising by so small as to be nearly nothing in past 15 years.
Result Maybe high CO2 levels do something else to planet?  

Time to think of new theory.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
You can't continue to burn squillions of tons of coal and oil and not expect something to happen.  There has to be consequences for altering the atmospheric balance radically in this way - anyone who thinks it's always going to be 'business as usual' just doesn't understand that our planet is actually a sealed system with finite resources.

I'm with you - I'm somewhere in-between the alarmists and the deniers... I just don't know what the impact will be.  I'm sure we'll find out in our lifetimes though.
don_dunstan
Don, it is not actually a sealed system.   Gases can escape from the Earth's system and likewise that big ball of fire 93m km away does have an impact on the system.

What my problem with the global warming settled science is this
Theory - more CO2 = higher temps.
Data - use umpteem thousand computer models to predict what could happen.
Result - It's settled.

Should be  Data - CO2 is going up at extremely high rate.   Temps rising by so small as to be nearly nothing in past 15 years.
Result Maybe high CO2 levels do something else to planet?  

Time to think of new theory.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Acidify the oceans?

Maybe temperatures aren't going up because of particulate pollution.  I did read a study once that suggested a cheap way of managing the greenhouse effect would be to pump something into the stratosphere to deflect the sun.  Big volcanic eruptions have the same result; Krakatoa in 1883 was responsible for a global drop in temperatures for at least a year.

I was reading an article about the (non) future of Holden today; as I was speculating earlier they're saying that the Free Trade Agreement with Thailand is killing what's left of our industry; apparently the Thais refused to drop tariffs on our vehicles but we had to drop tariffs on theirs.  Who the hell signed this rotten deal?  Just imagine what will happen when we get an FTA with China... scary.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Don, it is not actually a sealed system.   Gases can escape from the Earth's system and likewise that big ball of fire 93m km away does have an impact on the system.

What my problem with the global warming settled science is this
Theory - more CO2 = higher temps.
Data - use umpteem thousand computer models to predict what could happen.
Result - It's settled.

Should be  Data - CO2 is going up at extremely high rate.   Temps rising by so small as to be nearly nothing in past 15 years.
Result Maybe high CO2 levels do something else to planet?  

Time to think of new theory.
"Donald"
Real scientists are hard to come by, Feynman had it right. He said 'When your model doesn't fit your data, the model is wrong'. And 'All models are wrong, some are useful'.

It's time the climate 'scientists' ditched the CO2 linked temp increases and looked for a better fit of some other substance and temp, or CO2 increasing causing some other effect than increased temp.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
that big ball of fire 93m km away
Donald
The closest "big ball of fire" that I'm aware of is the sun, and it is 149,600,000 km away...
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Just in case anyone else is still keeping score. Illegal boat arrivals Oct 2012: 2,227, Oct 2013: 337... Yeah, Australian Policy makes no difference.
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
....
Also, how can we mortals take climate change seriously ...  It is nothing but climate alarmism used to stifle the economy so certain people can implement their agenda.
2301

So what's the point of this???

"...We will take direct action to reduce carbon emissions  ....
We remain committed to a five per cent reduction in emissions by 2020."

http://www.liberal.org.au/our-plan/environment

Just hot air Rolling Eyes
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
So what's the point of this???

"...We will take direct action to reduce carbon emissions  ....
We remain committed to a five per cent reduction in emissions by 2020."

http://www.liberal.org.au/our-plan/environment

Just hot air Rolling Eyes
cootanee

It is just a token policy to shut the greenie/socialists up.
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
Just in case anyone else is still keeping score. Illegal boat arrivals Oct 2012: 2,227, Oct 2013: 337... Yeah, Australian Policy makes no difference.
Aaron

It just goes to show that Gillard, Krudd et al really were not serious about even attempting to stop this activity.  Kevin's policy turnaround was nothing but a vain attempt at trying to re-elect himself.

Gillard/Krudd and Labor didn't give a damn about the implications for the country when they went all soft; it was all about making themselves look virtuous and unleashing their long term political agendas and ideology on Australia for decades to come.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

It is just a token policy to shut the greenie/socialists up.
"2301"



Exactly.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Just in case anyone else is still keeping score. Illegal boat arrivals Oct 2012: 2,227, Oct 2013: 337... Yeah, Australian Policy makes no difference.
"Aaron"



It's only early days, but credit, where it's due.
Scott Morrisons' smugness and arrogance during his weekly press conferences are really something to behold.

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