It's the Tony Abbott Show!

 
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
You're insinuating that illegal maritime arrivals are of the Islamic faith.
michaelgm

I am not insinuating at all; I am clearly stating the facts.

Young man/lady, all I can ask is that you put the welfare of your own country and country people first and foremost.  You sound like you have adopted this crazy convoluted ideology that you can solve the world's problems via the Australian Government.

Not everyone in the world has good intentions and is automatically deserving of entry into our country; if you want an open door policy like you are advocating, then it will come with consequences; if suicide bombers blow up a train that you or your family and friends are travelling on will you change your beliefs?  One only has to look at what is happening in certain parts of Sydney to realise that past immigration policies have dramatically failed us and if we keep going down this path of having an open door policy we will pay for it dearly in the future.

Socialists shoot themselves in the foot believing that their enemies are their friends and that their virtues will save the day.

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  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
A better analogy is this: buy a house in a strata, want paint it green?... Nope can't do that, you have work within this range of strata approved colours, boring brown, red and cream.
"Aaron"
Not quite.  Nobody makes you live in a strata; nobody makes any country join the UN. They're both matters of choice. But, when you choose to join anything, be it the UN or the Golf Club, you will find rules and/or requests/suggestions et al.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Not quite.  Nobody makes you live in a strata; nobody makes any country join the UN. They're both matters of choice. But, when you choose to join anything, be it the UN or the Golf Club, you will find rules and/or requests/suggestions et al.
Valvegear
And somebody made you live in your street? We should just strike our signature off the 1951 convention, just being a member of the UN does NOT mean we have to agree with and abide by EVERY ideology and Convention they host.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Johnny Howard debated leaving the Refugee Convention as part of his own 'stop the boats' but ultimately baulked at it. There's a lot of people in this country who would be very upset about it and it might surprise people like 2301 to learn that not all of them are Gremlins from the Kremlin.  The Jewish Community for one; for some reason they get upset about any moves to arbitrarily turn back refugees who might be escaping persecution.

Personally I think rather than mucking around any longer we should probably just leave.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Maybe time the convention on refugees got re-written, after all it is over 50 years old and the ways of the world have changed since then.

Most legislation has been redone or had amendments made in the last 50 years.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
not all of them are Gremlins from the Kremlin.
don_dunstan
Ironically, our Gremlins from the Kremlin around here probably would complain, yet the real Kremlin are not signatories.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
To get back on track, I wonder why Joe Hockey is baulking at being loaned an extra $100 billion; why he insisted on the limit being extended by $200 billion?  If there was going to be a USA-style shut down it wouldn't occur for a long time would it, not unless they planned on spending their credit card increase overnight?

And please don't say "It's Labor's fault".  The adults are in charge now, parliament is sitting - they can choose to stop the debt increasing any time they wish to. Instead they wish to expand it by 67% and got grumpy when an extra $100 billion was offered as a compromise.  It seems really weird to me that they campaigned really hard on a 'budget emergency' only to deliberately make the situation worse once elected.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
they can choose to stop the debt increasing any time they wish to.
That's not strictly true, interest accrues until debts are paid down, and expenses under current contract have to still be paid, even breaking an existing contract still generates a cost.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
The debts have been locked in but the payments and interest keeps mounting and have to be paid back.   How many more hand grenades are hiding in the cupboard I wonder?    Put the ceiling up to $500b to cover all possibilities instead of having to go through the same process in a couple of years.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
That's not strictly true, interest accrues until debts are paid down, and expenses under current contract have to still be paid, even breaking an existing contract still generates a cost.
Aaron
Well they can stop accruing new debts.  And Joe Hockey threatening to shut down the government over the compromise offer of $400 billion - well that's just plain hysteria.  Hockey himself voted against extending the ceiling to the current $300b in opposition, declaring that the Labor party were economic vandals.  Now they're making the same claim about their refusal to jack it up to $500b? It's a huge amount of money; this is the complete opposite of what I was expecting prior to Abbott's election. I felt there was going to be a really traditionally dry Tory agenda with lots of fiscal discipline but there's still no sign of that... yet.

Some of the things they've done so far are kind-of silly too.  Reversing FBT changes on salary packaging; I've had salary packaged cars before and in my experience all they do is encourage you to waste petrol and never use public transport or your feet.  Removing means testing on the 30% private health insurance rebate; I mean c'mon, if you earn those sorts of figures you don't need subsidies or welfare.  Abolishing the carbon tax but keeping the carbon tax compensation; that's another no-brainer.

Maybe it will all change when the Audit Commission reports early next year?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The debts have been locked in but the payments and interest keeps mounting and have to be paid back.   How many more hand grenades are hiding in the cupboard I wonder?    Put the ceiling up to $500b to cover all possibilities instead of having to go through the same process in a couple of years.
Donald
Yeah but if there's $200b worth of Joe Hockey's 'spiders in the cupboard', why haven't they been identified? If there's an urgent requirement for that kind of spending could they at least tell us what it will be needed for?  I agree with the contingency argument but all the same, it seems a bit rich to me to cry 'economic vandals' and vote against an increase to $300b and then make the same accusation over a refusal to allow it to stretch out to half a trillion.

EDIT: Why not just let them carry through with their threat to hit the debt ceiling and shut the government down?  It might be the only thing that brings down our dollar to something more manageable around the US $0.70 mark.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

I am not insinuating at all; I am clearly stating the facts.

Young man/lady, all I can ask is that you put the welfare of your own country and country people first and foremost.  You sound like you have adopted this crazy convoluted ideology that you can solve the world's problems via the Australian Government.

Not everyone in the world has good intentions and is automatically deserving of entry into our country; if you want an open door policy like you are advocating, then it will come with consequences; if suicide bombers blow up a train that you or your family and friends are travelling on will you change your beliefs?  One only has to look at what is happening in certain parts of Sydney to realise that past immigration policies have dramatically failed us and if we keep going down this path of having an open door policy we will pay for it dearly in the future.

Socialists shoot themselves in the foot believing that their enemies are their friends and that their virtues will save the day.
2301
Probably should be in the Boat People thread, but will respond, here.

While, the boat people, may the catalyst, the straw that broke the camels back, if you will. You appear to have an issue with immigration, in general. Both, past, and present.
Several of my friends have, similar views to your own. And that's ok. Variety of opinion is, an important thing.

I find my friends, to be intelligent, articulate, and principled, citizens. People who stand by their convictions.
Not simply those who talk the talk.
Where do you stand on this, sport?

For example;

Do you drive an imported vehicle?

Where is the shirt your wearing right, now, manufactured?

Have you eaten fried rice, or a doner kebab, recently?

Do tell.

Post Script: not such a young man/lady, these days.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
While, the boat people, may the catalyst, the straw that broke the camels back, if you will. You appear to have an issue with immigration, in general. Both, past, and present.
michaelgm
I think that's the problem, it appears to be straight out xenophobia.  You only have to look at how well previous generations of 'boat people' have integrated and contributed to Aussie society to know that the same thing will also happen with the current lot.  I think the one important thing is that we should make it clear to new entrants that the rule of law always comes first in this country; if you come here to start a new life you also need to understand that you can't have cultural or religious practices that are illegal here - as long as they understand that then we'll all get along just fine.

I see the new US Federal Reserve Chairman Janet Yellen is saying today she's going to keep the money presses cranked up so that's really bad news for our already high dollar.  I really hope Tony and Joe come up with some policy soon to get the dollar down, our farmers and manufacturers urgently need it.
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
You only have to look at how well previous generations of 'boat people' have integrated and contributed to Aussie society to know that the same thing will also happen with the current lot.  
don_dunstan
There is a big difference between the boat people that came here a few decades ago and the current ones; they were fleeing for their lives where as the current bunch are just country shopping.  Just look at how refreshed the current bunch are when they step off their boats; complete with designer sunglasses and clothing - it's an absolute joke!

It must be said though that we are still paying the price for not being discerning when it came to selecting who was admitted; take for example the drug problem in Cabramatta and the middle eastern crime gangs in western Sydney.
  grrr17 Deputy Commissioner

There is a big difference between the boat people that came here a few decades ago and the current ones; they were fleeing for their lives where as the current bunch are just country shopping.  Just look at how refreshed the current bunch are when they step off their boats; complete with designer sunglasses and clothing - it's an absolute joke!

It must be said though that we are still paying the price for not being discerning when it came to selecting who was admitted; take for example the drug problem in Cabramatta and the middle eastern crime gangs in western Sydney.
2301
Because fleeing the likes of Al Qaeda/repressive religious extremist governments in the Middle East of today is just so different to fleeing the likes of the Viet Cong/repressive communist governments in South East Asia in the 70's.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
You only have to look at how well previous generations of 'boat people' have integrated and contributed to Aussie society to know that the same thing will also happen with the current lot.
don_dunstan
And suppose we look at the UK as an example as to how well an excess of African and sub continental migration works...
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
And suppose we look at the UK as an example as to how well an excess of African and sub continental migration works...
Aaron
You've pulled the irrelevent card when I presented figures for the amount of refugees arriving in other countries, compared with Australia, and I'm doing that now with your comparison. We're not the UK. If you really wanted to use the UK as a comparison, I could mention the VAT, and how it has increased since it's introduction. No GST, never ever...I'm waiting for Abbott to increase it to 17% or more.

How do you know it won't work?
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
You've pulled the irrelevent card when I presented figures for the amount of refugees arriving in other countries, compared with Australia, and I'm doing that now with your comparison. We're not the UK. If you really wanted to use the UK as a comparison, I could mention the VAT, and how it has increased since it's introduction. No GST, never ever...I'm waiting for Abbott to increase it to 17% or more.

How do you know it won't work?
Barrington Womble
Talk about irrelevant! Aaron is referring to the ethnic mix of immigrants and you raise the VAT/GST. Yet another thing you have learned from your Labor mates, how to drag a smelly herring across a trail.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
This was a good topic before xenophobia and name-calling took over.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
You've pulled the irrelevent card when I presented figures for the amount of refugees arriving in other countries, compared with Australia, and I'm doing that now with your comparison. We're not the UK. If you really wanted to use the UK as a comparison, I could mention the VAT, and how it has increased since it's introduction. No GST, never ever...I'm waiting for Abbott to increase it to 17% or more.

How do you know it won't work?
"Barrington Womble"
That is just not intelligent.
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
That is just not intelligent.
Aaron
Thanks. I think the same of your post.
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
Talk about irrelevant! Aaron is referring to the ethnic mix of immigrants and you raise the VAT/GST. Yet another thing you have learned from your Labor mates, how to drag a smelly herring across a trail.
TheBlacksmith
Ignore the drunken (yes, I had had a few when I typed that...I do apologise) stuff about the VAT/GST for a moment, and try answering the question at the end: how do you know it won't work?
We're not the UK, and it (vietnamese refugees) has worked in this country before as has been pointed out previously. Why wouldn't it work this time? What is different this time to last time?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
This was a good topic before xenophobia and name-calling took over.
Valvegear
And the persistent paranoid delusions.

On the topic of craziness; I once read a book about the life and times of L Ron Hubbard, a bit of a 20th century PT Barnum really. There was one quote from him that was quite interesting; a journalist once asked him if he was mad and he collapsed into gales of laughter and responded "Oh, yes, the mad man is usually the last one to know he's mad."
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Ignore the drunken (yes, I had had a few when I typed that...I do apologise) stuff about the VAT/GST for a moment, and try answering the question at the end: how do you know it won't work?
We're not the UK, and it (vietnamese refugees) has worked in this country before as has been pointed out previously. Why wouldn't it work this time? What is different this time to last time?
"Barrington Womble"
Culture Rolling Eyes
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
Culture Rolling Eyes
Aaron
Sorry son, one word doesn't cut it. Please explain.

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