Newcastle Rail Line: Announcements

 
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Speedbird, you are PARTLY correct. IF we must have this Developers Interchange, call it one of these: Wickham Terminus, Wickham-Newcastle Terminus, Wickham(Newcastle) Terminus.

Their is already a "Newcastle Interchange". Page 2 of this PDF: http://tinyurl.com/zd5ez3w

Dictator Baird, transport & planning ministers should realise that the GNB hasn't even given approval for the name yet.
I know that attacking "greedy developers" gives you some solace, but try to get your facts straight.

How is the interchange the "Developers interchange"? When the NSW Government went out for community consultation on the location for the interchange and light rail route, both the Property Council and Hunter Business Chamber backed an interchange at Broadmeadow, not Wickham. When the Labor Government did a scientifi survey on Wickham Interchange, over 70% of respondents supported it. To say it is what developers asked for is factually incorrect. It has been favored by both sides of government and nearly 3/4 of the community. The PCA and HBC have been the odd ones out in NOT supporting it.

The Wickham Interchange was put forward by Professor Steffen Lehmann, then head of Architecture at Newcastle University and [color=#006fa6][size=3][font=Arial, sans-serif]UNESCO Chair in Sustainable Urban Development for Asia and the Pacific[/font][/size][/color]. He is one of the most experienced academics on the planet when it comes to sustainable design. Hardly a "greedy developer". The Wickham option was picked up by the Labor government and considerable design work was done before they were defeated in the 2011 election.

Now that that is proven to be BS, let's move to the RMS version of "Newcastle Interchange". In that case, it is nothing but a couple of signs (maybe three) at the junction of motorways 20km west of the CBD. It is not offical in any way and not a reason not to give this obvious name to what will be the interchange that is in Newcastle West and a short walk from Newcastle itself (based on postcode boundaries).

As far as "Dictator Baird" is concerned, this would apply to every single government in the world. Governments make decisions on behalf of those who elected them. You don't like one decision the current government has made, but that's democracy. In this case, they have done what over 70% of the community told the Labor Government should be done.
Northern Flyer

The problem is the government never actually does proper community consultation. There are projects like the cselr, the metro and westconnex that I am glad are going ahead but the government doesn't consult with the community. The consultation is with developers only, they never listen to anybody about these projects and while there may be some lunatic fringes that need to be ignored they also don't seem to be interested in taking advice from people with better ideas for these projects unless they are a buddy developer.

This government should roll the 2019 election but because of these communist decisions they may just lose the next election. The greyhound and council merger issues are going to be huge negatives in that election

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  Showtime Chief Train Controller

Now that the Fuhrer is gone, can we have our rail line back now?
  Mufreight Train Controller

Location: North Ipswich
Now that the Fuhrer is gone, can we have our rail line back now?
Showtime
With the right of way now cleared it would be a good time to reinstate the line in a cut and cover trench, there are some now highly experienced construction firms from Melbourne who could do the job.
  Mad Panda Station Master

Location: NSW Australia
Now that the Fuhrer is gone, can we have our rail line back now?
Showtime

No.

Its fine as it is.  I thoroughly enjoy my stroll from Honeysuckle to Marketown  Smile
  c3526blue Deputy Commissioner

Location: in the cuckoos nest
Now that the Fuhrer is gone, can we have our rail line back now?

No.

Its fine as it is.  I thoroughly enjoy my stroll from Honeysuckle to Marketown  Smile
Mad Panda
No, No.  The government has done such an excellent job of vandalising the route so that it cannot be reinstated.  Get used to walking!

Happy picnicking,

John
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
Now that the Fuhrer is gone, can we have our rail line back now?
Showtime
Gladys Berejecklin looks like the next to take the chair, not gunna get much better
  Northern Flyer Train Controller

Claims that Hunter Street will die following truncation appear to be unfounded. http://www.theherald.com.au/story/4420675/hunter-streets-surging-market/?cs=305
  Northern Flyer Train Controller

Now that the Fuhrer is gone, can we have our rail line back now?
With the right of way now cleared it would be a good time to reinstate the line in a cut and cover trench, there are some now highly experienced construction firms from Melbourne who could do the job.
Mufreight
and where will the billion dollars plus come from?
  Northern Flyer Train Controller

Now that the Fuhrer is gone, can we have our rail line back now?
Showtime
So everybody who does something that you don't agree with is a "Fuhrer". Do you actually understand how democracy works.
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
Now that the Fuhrer is gone, can we have our rail line back now?
So everybody who does something that you don't agree with is a "Fuhrer". Do you actually understand how democracy works.
Northern Flyer
Well if your VISA card gets hacked and the bank cancels the card you cannot top up your OPAL card and use Transport, if you do you will get a fat fine and a day in Court, basically the electronic ticket system is not feasible for the average Joe, tourists or one of users, she has basically said every citizen must have an OPAL, this is ignorant.
Ignorance will not win an election.
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

Now that the Fuhrer is gone, can we have our rail line back now?
So everybody who does something that you don't agree with is a "Fuhrer". Do you actually understand how democracy works.
Northern Flyer
No Flyer, my designation of Baird as a tyrant fits the description entirely.
He flatly refused to listen to public opinion regarding the rail and other issues in Newcastle, and appeared to actually go out of his way to screw the region over.
He used back door arrangements to get the rail line closed and then changed the law when the lobbying got too big so as to send SOR broke.
As well a destroying the existing and fully functioning rail system, he then decided to destroy the road traffic system as well by installing a pie in the sky light rail down Hunter Street, but still ignored the remaining Stewart Avenue bottle neck
He sold/leased off the profitable Port of Newcastle whilst syphoning off the majority of the funds for his Sydney projects.
He removed the position of Minister for the Hunter and replaced it with a secretarial position.
He denied funding for the much needed Glendale Interchange
He has put Newcastle, Lake Macquarie and Port Stephens Councils though hell with his proposed mergers.
He catastrophically affected the Greyhound racing industry

All of these ludicrous decisions were made against public opinion
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

Now that the Fuhrer is gone, can we have our rail line back now?
With the right of way now cleared it would be a good time to reinstate the line in a cut and cover trench, there are some now highly experienced construction firms from Melbourne who could do the job.
Mufreight
There is no need to spend millions on cut and cover.
If the rail line is not to be reinstated, and that appears to be wholly unlikely, then the light rail should go straight back on the existing corridor.
The major arguments for supporting the removing of the heavy rail were so that half a dozen people could walk over to the water side and buy a pie at Harrys.
This can still be the case as the light rail is designed to not be a barrier. Pie eaters of all political denominations would still be able to safely cross the light rails tracks and engage in whatever activities they desired.
There is no need to shut down Hunter street to single lane traffic and remove the already difficult to access parking.

A real political party would have listened to the public, looked at the costs in both dollars and how the public will be disadvantaged, weighed up the advantages, and then thought through any decisions before implementing them.
  Northern Flyer Train Controller

Now that the Fuhrer is gone, can we have our rail line back now?
With the right of way now cleared it would be a good time to reinstate the line in a cut and cover trench, there are some now highly experienced construction firms from Melbourne who could do the job.
There is no need to spend millions on cut and cover.
If the rail line is not to be reinstated, and that appears to be wholly unlikely, then the light rail should go straight back on the existing corridor.
The major arguments for supporting the removing of the heavy rail were so that half a dozen people could walk over to the water side and buy a pie at Harrys.
This can still be the case as the light rail is designed to not be a barrier. Pie eaters of all political denominations would still be able to safely cross the light rails tracks and engage in whatever activities they desired.
There is no need to shut down Hunter street to single lane traffic and remove the already difficult to access parking.

A real political party would have listened to the public, looked at the costs in both dollars and how the public will be disadvantaged, weighed up the advantages, and then thought through any decisions before implementing them.
Showtime
You have a choice. You run the tram at normal speed in which case you need barriers with crossings only at protected designated points in which case it will be a barrier or you have no barriers and run the trams at 10km/h. Which is it to be? Of course, you can stick it in the middle of the road where it can run at the same speed as the traffic and the old corridor can be used for public domain.
  Northern Flyer Train Controller

Now that the Fuhrer is gone, can we have our rail line back now?
So everybody who does something that you don't agree with is a "Fuhrer". Do you actually understand how democracy works.
No Flyer, my designation of Baird as a tyrant fits the description entirely.
He flatly refused to listen to public opinion regarding the rail and other issues in Newcastle, and appeared to actually go out of his way to screw the region over.
He used back door arrangements to get the rail line closed and then changed the law when the lobbying got too big so as to send SOR broke.
As well a destroying the existing and fully functioning rail system, he then decided to destroy the road traffic system as well by installing a pie in the sky light rail down Hunter Street, but still ignored the remaining Stewart Avenue bottle neck
He sold/leased off the profitable Port of Newcastle whilst syphoning off the majority of the funds for his Sydney projects.
He removed the position of Minister for the Hunter and replaced it with a secretarial position.
He denied funding for the much needed Glendale Interchange
He has put Newcastle, Lake Macquarie and Port Stephens Councils though hell with his proposed mergers.
He catastrophically affected the Greyhound racing industry

All of these ludicrous decisions were made against public opinion
Showtime
"Flatly refused" Mike Baird and every premier in the last 30 years has listened to public opinion about heavy rail in Newcastle. He listened to lots of people. There has been 50 reports on the issue in the last thirty years. He just made a decision that YOU and a minority of people in the Hunter didn't like.

Hi "backdoor method" was later found to be valid by the courts. He wanted to get on with the Transport Interchange for a start. If SOR had not delayed the work by 9 months with their court case, the new interchange would be open by now.

He consulted on the Light Rail route in 2014. Trouble is, the likes of SOR were outside demanding the heavy railway be restored. In the end, the two routes on offer were split around 50/50. In the end they settled on a hybrid route that was a combination of both. Sounds like consultation to me.

If he screwed the region over, the people are showing their anger in an odd way. Business and investment is booming. Billions are being spent in Newcastle. Developments are selling out off the plan. Doesn't sound like a place that has been screwed over.

Have you been in Hunter Street? It is a four lane road that could be half the width without a problem.

So where should the money from the sale of the port be spent? Carrington? 2300 postcode, Newcastle LGA, Lower Hunter, Hunter Valley, should we include the Central Coast. Care to specify the line? For that matter, where should the money from selling Port Botany go? What about selling Mount Piper Power Station? They are all NSW assets and the proceeds should be distribute over NSW.

Glendale Interchange? What funding was removed? A pre-election promise from the ALP in 2011 when they threw money around that doesn't exist is not funding. Stage 1 is well underway and has joint funding from Federal, State and Local Governments.

Care to define "public opinion". Does that mean he has to gain 100% support before he does everything? Does he have to gain your support before he does anything. Like any government, they consult (and Newcastle Railway has been consulted to death) listen to different views and make a decision. Sometimes support will be 80%, sometimes 50%, sometimes it will be less than 50%. That's how things work in a democracy.

The railway has gone, the public are, on balance, happy and the Newcastle CBD is growing at an unprecedented rate. It's gone, get over it.
  Northern Flyer Train Controller

Now that the Fuhrer is gone, can we have our rail line back now?
So everybody who does something that you don't agree with is a "Fuhrer". Do you actually understand how democracy works.
Well if your VISA card gets hacked and the bank cancels the card you cannot top up your OPAL card and use Transport, if you do you will get a fat fine and a day in Court, basically the electronic ticket system is not feasible for the average Joe, tourists or one of users, she has basically said every citizen must have an OPAL, this is ignorant.
Ignorance will not win an election.
Junction box
That would be the Opal Card that was started by the ALP and after 10 years had cost hundreds of millions and still wasn't working.
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

Now that the Fuhrer is gone, can we have our rail line back now?
So everybody who does something that you don't agree with is a "Fuhrer". Do you actually understand how democracy works.
No Flyer, my designation of Baird as a tyrant fits the description entirely.
He flatly refused to listen to public opinion regarding the rail and other issues in Newcastle, and appeared to actually go out of his way to screw the region over.
He used back door arrangements to get the rail line closed and then changed the law when the lobbying got too big so as to send SOR broke.
As well a destroying the existing and fully functioning rail system, he then decided to destroy the road traffic system as well by installing a pie in the sky light rail down Hunter Street, but still ignored the remaining Stewart Avenue bottle neck
He sold/leased off the profitable Port of Newcastle whilst syphoning off the majority of the funds for his Sydney projects.
He removed the position of Minister for the Hunter and replaced it with a secretarial position.
He denied funding for the much needed Glendale Interchange
He has put Newcastle, Lake Macquarie and Port Stephens Councils though hell with his proposed mergers.
He catastrophically affected the Greyhound racing industry

All of these ludicrous decisions were made against public opinion
"Flatly refused" Mike Baird and every premier in the last 30 years has listened to public opinion about heavy rail in Newcastle. He listened to lots of people. There has been 50 reports on the issue in the last thirty years. He just made a decision that YOU and a minority of people in the Hunter didn't like.

Hi "backdoor method" was later found to be valid by the courts. He wanted to get on with the Transport Interchange for a start. If SOR had not delayed the work by 9 months with their court case, the new interchange would be open by now.

He consulted on the Light Rail route in 2014. Trouble is, the likes of SOR were outside demanding the heavy railway be restored. In the end, the two routes on offer were split around 50/50. In the end they settled on a hybrid route that was a combination of both. Sounds like consultation to me.

If he screwed the region over, the people are showing their anger in an odd way. Business and investment is booming. Billions are being spent in Newcastle. Developments are selling out off the plan. Doesn't sound like a place that has been screwed over.

Have you been in Hunter Street? It is a four lane road that could be half the width without a problem.

So where should the money from the sale of the port be spent? Carrington? 2300 postcode, Newcastle LGA, Lower Hunter, Hunter Valley, should we include the Central Coast. Care to specify the line? For that matter, where should the money from selling Port Botany go? What about selling Mount Piper Power Station? They are all NSW assets and the proceeds should be distribute over NSW.

Glendale Interchange? What funding was removed? A pre-election promise from the ALP in 2011 when they threw money around that doesn't exist is not funding. Stage 1 is well underway and has joint funding from Federal, State and Local Governments.

Care to define "public opinion". Does that mean he has to gain 100% support before he does everything? Does he have to gain your support before he does anything. Like any government, they consult (and Newcastle Railway has been consulted to death) listen to different views and make a decision. Sometimes support will be 80%, sometimes 50%, sometimes it will be less than 50%. That's how things work in a democracy.

The railway has gone, the public are, on balance, happy and the Newcastle CBD is growing at an unprecedented rate. It's gone, get over it.
Northern Flyer
Dear Flyer
I can always rely on you to support the great love of your life, Herr Baird.
Can you really, honestly and with true conviction say that Newcastle has been treated fairly by this government?
You continue to waffle on about the millions of dollars in development happening in Newcastle because thye ALiberals are bunch of good blokes, but really, these buildings would have happened anyway under any party leadership because it is prime real,estate and anytime an investor can score this property they will snap it up and build another office block with accommodation.
What I am not seeing is true infrastructure development being supported by the Liberal government.
I will agree there is carport being built at Wickham station, but at what cost to the rest of the transport system.
Where are the real projects that I have mentioned already , as well as some I haven't mentioned like a Cruise ship terminal that is a not a paddock at the back of Carrington, where is the New Lambton bypass, how are things progressing at Adamstown gates?
Newcastle is not Sydney so Newcastle can do without the improvements that it really needs.
We should all shut up and be thankful for the crumbs they thew our way. What a bunch of ungrateful bastards we are for not being happy with nothing.
Sorry Flyer, your continued support for the disruption and destruction of Newcastle's transport system still leaves me bewildered
  Junction box Chief Commissioner

Location: newy
Yesterday an up Telarah was diverted into Broadmeadow because of congestion at Hamilton, no alternative arrangements were made and Hamilton passengers had to wait 40 minutes for the up Interurban.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Yesterday an up Telarah was diverted into Broadmeadow because of congestion at Hamilton
Junction box
Junction box, see my post here about the related delays: http://tinyurl.com/zcfhw2n.

But Junction Box, yesterday at Hornsby, the CityRail website (oh okay PCB Sydney Trains) said that "All Hunter Line trains are starting/terminating at Broadmeadow due to urgent track repairs at Hamilton."

I'm entitled at the moment to believe you, as our train went to Hamilton. IF it was due to track repair, I'm sure the Central - Hamilton & vv trains would've also started/terminated at Broadmeadow.

And besides how can an "urgent track repair" at Hamilton affect JUST the Hunter Line trains, not both lines?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

No Flyer, my designation of Baird as a tyrant fits the description entirely.
He flatly refused to listen to public opinion regarding the rail and other issues in Newcastle, and appeared to actually go out of his way to screw the region over.
He used back door arrangements to get the rail line closed and then changed the law when the lobbying got too big so as to send SOR broke.
As well a destroying the existing and fully functioning rail system, he then decided to destroy the road traffic system as well by installing a pie in the sky light rail down Hunter Street, but still ignored the remaining Stewart Avenue bottle neck
He sold/leased off the profitable Port of Newcastle whilst syphoning off the majority of the funds for his Sydney projects.
He removed the position of Minister for the Hunter and replaced it with a secretarial position.
He denied funding for the much needed Glendale Interchange
He has put Newcastle, Lake Macquarie and Port Stephens Councils though hell with his proposed mergers.
He catastrophically affected the Greyhound racing industry

All of these ludicrous decisions were made against public opinion
Showtime

I agree with everything bar the greyhound industry. The bunch of idiots in that industry are still performing criminal behaviour after having being given a reprieve. Baird is looking better on that one now.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

That would be the Opal Card that was started by the ALP and after 10 years had cost hundreds of millions and still wasn't working.
Northern Flyer

Opal is a libs thing. The labor farce you are thinking of is the T-Card. I do believe there are now single opal tickets available in any case and Opal cards can be bought and topped up at a vast variety of shopping centres, newsagents, service stations and corner stores and it doesn't require a visa card.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Will this be the world's smallest tram/light rail system?  Given walking pace on flat terrain is 5-6 kmph, and therefore 2km can be walked in 20-25 mins, will the tram be quicker? Wouldn't double-decker or articulated buses plus the existing buses do the job a lot cheaper? How are 6 trams going to be crammed into such a short route?
  TomBTR Chief Train Controller

Location: near Sydney
Will this be the world's smallest tram/light rail system?  Given walking pace on flat terrain is 5-6 kmph, and therefore 2km can be walked in 20-25 mins, will the tram be quicker? Wouldn't double-decker or articulated buses plus the existing buses do the job a lot cheaper? How are 6 trams going to be crammed into such a short route?
"kitchgp"


Some of the English cliff railways perform a tram-like service and they are quite short.

If the frequency is good enough the tram journey will be faster. As in Sydney where if you arrive at Central to get to the markets and there is no tram waiting then it is quicker to walk, but if there is a tram waiting then it will beat walking.

Buses are usually cheaper, and usually slower.

Six trams: one being overhauled and five giving a frequent service. The old saying about a good tram service "always a tram in sight". This is not how the inner west light rail works, but how it should.

Seriously, nothing they can do will beat the former six-minute train ride. However these two km could be, should be, the nucleus of a bigger system. Many of the older suburbs are on roads wide enough for trams. Some of these used to have a tram service and many never had heavy rail access.
  Xavier Station Master

Location: Newcastle, AU
Will this be the world's smallest tram/light rail system?  Given walking pace on flat terrain is 5-6 kmph, and therefore 2km can be walked in 20-25 mins, will the tram be quicker? Wouldn't double-decker or articulated buses plus the existing buses do the job a lot cheaper? How are 6 trams going to be crammed into such a short route?
kitchgp

The route is actually 2.7kms and will be serviced by 4 operational trams (plus 1 spare) with a proposed frequency of 7.5min in peak times, it will not be crammed at all.

I do agree that it should be the beginnings of a much larger network servicing vital areas such as the stadium, hospitals, schools etc but this is a good start.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Running  4 trams with a 7.5 min peak hour headway gives a round trip time of 30 mins; 15 mins out and 15 mins back. Allowing 3 mins turnaround  results in 12 mins travel  time,  which, over 2.7 km, equates to  an average speed of 13.5 km/h. I doubt buses would be slower. Melbourne trams average 16 km/h, Gold Coast's light rail 23 km/h and Canberra's proposed light rail 30 km/h. It should be called a tram not a light rail. If the average speed was somehow raised to 20km/h then only 3 trams would be needed to maintain the same headway.

It seems the timetable will not be flexible to fit in with train arrivals and departures. This would be difficult to implement. The project website lists  peak hour headway as 7.5 mins ('turn up and go service' as they put it) but doesn't say what peak hours are or what the headway for off-peak will be, so I'm assuming 10 or 15 mins for off-peak. If your train arrival is such that you just miss a tram it will take 19 mins to complete a full-length  journey  (7 mins wait + 12 mins journey) in peak and 21 to 26 mins in off-peak (9  or 14 mins + 12 mins).  When you add the 2 mins required for the extra interchange, this doesn't compare very well with the defunct heavy rail journey.  I'm sure the trams will be full on rainy days but other days?
  Piston Train Controller

Running  4 trams with a 7.5 min peak hour headway gives a round trip time of 30 mins; 15 mins out and 15 mins back. Allowing 3 mins turnaround  results in 12 mins travel  time,  which, over 2.7 km, equates to  an average speed of 13.5 km/h. I doubt buses would be slower. Melbourne trams average 16 km/h, Gold Coast's light rail 23 km/h and Canberra's proposed light rail 30 km/h. It should be called a tram not a light rail. If the average speed was somehow raised to 20km/h then only 3 trams would be needed to maintain the same headway.

It seems the timetable will not be flexible to fit in with train arrivals and departures. This would be difficult to implement. The project website lists  peak hour headway as 7.5 mins ('turn up and go service' as they put it) but doesn't say what peak hours are or what the headway for off-peak will be, so I'm assuming 10 or 15 mins for off-peak. If your train arrival is such that you just miss a tram it will take 19 mins to complete a full-length  journey  (7 mins wait + 12 mins journey) in peak and 21 to 26 mins in off-peak (9  or 14 mins + 12 mins).  When you add the 2 mins required for the extra interchange, this doesn't compare very well with the defunct heavy rail journey.  I'm sure the trams will be full on rainy days but other days?
kitchgp
Your post clearly sets out the stupidity of the closure of the rail line into Newcastle. When the journey from Wickham to Newcastle was around six minutes on the same mode of transport, you now have to get out and wait for your tram to turn up and take you down to Newcastle.
To maintain a regular timetable for the trams there will be no 'hang on five minutes' if the train is running late for a connection.
Or if I am leaving Newcastle for a train connection to Sydney I would not risk getting to Wickham late for the train. So add another extra twenty minutes journey time.

Sad also that with the proposed new intercity fleet expected and with a top speed of 130km/hr, there is no -one in government that is interested in having a two hour trip for the Sydney to Newcastle. With limited stops these trains could have brought back the glory days when the Newcastle Flyer was a prestige train.

Even if they get to Wickham quicker with the new intercitys, the transfer to a tram will negate any saving in time.

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