The use of lining pens (Split thread)

 
  allan Chief Commissioner

Will some one please tell me about these lining pens that are not bow pens?

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  anzac1959 Chief Commissioner

Poath what type of paint and ratios did you use to line your pictured first attempt at lining

Why does that thread keep getting locked
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
I see my message about wanting a lining pen is getting thru,the thread got locked because it was in the wrong spot, I reposted, thinking it was going into here but guess where it went? Roachie kindly informed me off my error and how to post here by hitting the reply button, maybe some more info to me about my error admin may have saved some angst?
Lining pens Allan are akin to a pot style of air brush, but gravity allows the paint to flow out of the pot thru a nib to leave a fine line, various size nibs are available for various thickness lines, I hope that explains it.
These are not to be confused to Bow Pens which are akin to a Calligraphy style of pen.
They seem to be hard to get in Australia and certainly are expensive.


Perhaps we can start a thread about "use of lining pens" that doesn't contravene admin rules???

Wayne
hosk1956

Wayne, I bought a pen at Peter Boorman's Workshop today. http://www.peterboormansworkshop.com.au/

Cost was $80 and for that you get four stylus 0.25, 0.5, 0.75 and 1 mm, cleaning wire for each, a handle, instructions and a case to keep it in.  Since I live in Brisbane I went out to Peter's place and he gave me instruction as well as a look around his workshop.  Lots of good stuff there for N scale enthusiasts and a bit for HO.  Peter loves to show people over his gear and talk hobbies so well worth the afternoon.  Better than mail order, especially with the tuition and practical session.

Also bought some Humbrol No 7 buff paint, white spirit, thinner and made a straight edge for the lining task.  All set to put lines on my RUB set.  All I need now is practice before I go near the actual models.

Best regards,
John

PS.  Also bought an HO NSW Overhead Water Tank Accessories kit and only just manged to resist his NSW yard gates.  I know I will buy some before long - they are absolutely irresistible.
  allan Chief Commissioner

The link doesn't work for me...
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Poath what type of paint and ratios did you use to line your pictured first attempt at lining
anzac1959

Humbrol enamel,  straight from the tin. Did a few lines on a piece of scrap styrene, thought "this is too easy!", then tried my luck on the model using a metal ruler as a guide to keep the line straight.

There is an article in issue 1 of "Branchline Modeller" (later issues became the "Australian Journal of Railway Modelling") that shows the pen being used to line an SJM CUB set, that article convinced me to buy the pen.
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
The link doesn't work for me...
allan

Allan,

I just tested it and it worked fine for me.  Give it another attempt please.

Best regards,
John
  Picton Locomotive Driver

Allan,

I just tested it and it worked fine for me. Give it another attempt please.

Best regards,
John
John_Bushell

Gents,
The British modelers rave about Bob Moore lining pens. http://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/cherry-paints/lining-and-masking/bob-moore-pens/craftsman-pen-set.html

Problem is they're 90 quid so they'd want to be good compared with Peter Boormans. The BM pens have a finer nib (.02mm) so that may be a differentiator.

I use Rotring Lining Pens with Exactoscale BR Straw Opaque Lining ink which is sadly no longer available but works a treat for very fine lining. I saw them advertised some time in in 1999 and bought a couple of bottles knowing that I'd need it someday. Just proves to me again that when you see something you need, buy it straight away otherwise it may disappear. You can get red inks and white inks so that may be of use? Not sure how opaque they are though.

Cheers,
Rob
  anzac1959 Chief Commissioner

Humbrol enamel, straight from the tin. Did a few lines on a piece of scrap styrene, thought "this is too easy!", then tried my luck on the model using a metal ruler as a guide to keep the line straight.

There is an article in issue 1 of "Branchline Modeller" (later issues became the "Australian Journal of Railway Modelling") that shows the pen being used to line an SJM CUB set, that article convinced me to buy the pen.
Poath Junction

Thanks Ill try it soon I bought the pen off Roachie received it today ,thanks Bill
ive also got one of those Bob Moore pens I need to try.
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
... The BM pens have a finer nib (.02mm) so that may be a differentiator.
Picton

Doubt it Rob.  The other one has a 0.25mm  nib.  Hang on. 0.02mm?  That is fine!  I wonder if paint would run through it.  Perhaps why they use ink rather than paint.

I model HO so would not need a line that fine.  The buff lines on the NSW carriages are within the range possible with the four options 0.25; 0.5; 0.75 or 1mm.  Perhaps N scalers want a finer nib, but I wonder about paint flowing through a capillary diameter tube.

By the way, does anyone know the width of the two buff lines on NSW cars of the late 1950s early 1960s?  Can't find it in the Coaching Stock reference book.  My guess would be about 2.5" for the lower one and 1.25" for the one above the windows.  Do not treat that as authoritative - my guesstimate only.

Best regards,
John
  Gremlin Assistant Commissioner

Rotring pens.....you have awakened my past as a surveying student in the 70s.

I still have about 10 pens and 15 interchangeable heads/nibs etc.  The question is, what to use for paint/ink?  I have a feeling that paint/ink dilute enough to flow through a fine point may be too thin and tend to run, too thick and it won't flow...but if it did it would stay put!

Has anyone experimented with paint/ink/dilution in a Rotring?
  Picton Locomotive Driver

Doubt it Rob. The other one has a 0.25mm nib. Hang on. 0.02mm? That is fine! I wonder if paint would run through it. Perhaps why they use ink rather than paint.

I model HO so would not need a line that fine. The buff lines on the NSW carriages are within the range possible with the four options 0.25; 0.5; 0.75 or 1mm. Perhaps N scalers want a finer nib, but I wonder about paint flowing through a capillary diameter tube.

By the way, does anyone know the width of the two buff lines on NSW cars of the late 1950s early 1960s? Can't find it in the Coaching Stock reference book. My guess would be about 2.5" for the lower one and 1.25" for the one above the windows. Do not treat that as authoritative - my guesstimate only.

Best regards,
John
John_Bushell

John,
Oops, got that one wrong. Should have been 0.2mm for the BM pen. I model 1930's NSWGR in HO so need to represent 5/8" lining. Shocked

Must...check...before....posting.

Cheers
Rob
  Picton Locomotive Driver

Rotring pens.....you have awakened my past as a surveying student in the 70s.

I still have about 10 pens and 15 interchangeable heads/nibs etc. The question is, what to use for paint/ink? I have a feeling that paint/ink dilute enough to flow through a fine point may be too thin and tend to run, too thick and it won't flow...but if it did it would stay put!

Has anyone experimented with paint/ink/dilution in a Rotring?
Gremlin

Hi Gremlin,
I used diluted acrylics in a Rotring before I found the Exactoscale ink but it ruined the pen. More to the point my attempts to clean the pen afterwards were what ruined the pen. It actually worked so if you're prepared to sacrifice a pen in a massive lining session then it might work out. Or find a way to clean the pen that doesn't ruin it.

Cheers
Rob
  Gremlin Assistant Commissioner

Hi Gremlin,
I used diluted acrylics in a Rotring before I found the Exactoscale ink but it ruined the pen. More to the point my attempts to clean the pen afterwards were what ruined the pen. It actually worked so if you're prepared to sacrifice a pen in a massive lining session then it might work out. Or find a way to clean the pen that doesn't ruin it.

Cheers
Rob
Picton

Rob

Did you use the Rotring cleaning solution or some other method?  What was ruined, the barrel, the internal nib or something else?
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
Will some one please tell me about these lining pens that are not bow pens?
"allan"


Hi Allan,

I use a German Pelikan Graphos pen to line my models. I was put on to this vintage pen by Howard Smith while buying a few models off him a few years ago. Howard wrote an article "The Art of Painting Brass Models" and was published in issue 4 of Branchline Modeller. In that article there is a picture of the Graphos pen amongst all the other tools he uses.

http://hans.presto.tripod.com/scan/graphos.html

Many different type of nibs are available, the smallest being a 0.1mm. As explained to me by Howard, I use acrylic paint and only thin it as much as needed. I have found nibs down to about 0.3 can handle humbrol acrylic straight out of the pot. The beauty of the acrylic is that you can quickly wipe it off with water if you make an error. As the paint is loaded into the nib only, cleaning is very easy.

Using a rule/profile template with an undercut edge has proved a must. This stops the paint running under the rule via capillary action.

These pens are quite old. I think they are of 1930-1950 vintage. As soon as I arrived home from my meeting with Howard I bought one off eBay. I can't remember it costing too much and have since bought a spare case of nibs.

Hope that offers another option. Howard was/is a painting and lining magician. Unfortunately for me just using the same tools as he used doesn't correspond to the same quality work ha ha.

I am also going to follow Robs suggestion and buy a rotring pen and give it a go. I think lining is one of those skills where practice makes perfect.

Linton
  Picton Locomotive Driver

Rob

Did you use the Rotring cleaning solution or some other method? What was ruined, the barrel, the internal nib or something else?
Gremlin

Hi Gremlin,
I thought I'd cleaned it properly when I first used it with the paint but when I went to use it again the diaphragm in the nib was stuck solid. So I tried various cleaners (Rotring solution, soaking in alcohol) but nothing worked. In the end, as a last resort seeing as it was unusable, I tried thinners which promptly dissolved the rubber diaphragm to goo. I still think the thinned paint will work but it needs to be cleaned thoroughly otherwise, it'll seize up like mine did. I got another one from the UK for about $30 which was a lot better than the $75 stores were charging in Aus.

Cheers,
Rob
  garratt6042 Beginner



By the way, does anyone know the width of the two buff lines on NSW cars of the late 1950s early 1960s? Can't find it in the Coaching Stock reference book. My guess would be about 2.5" for the lower one and 1.25" for the one above the windows. Do not treat that as authoritative - my guesstimate only.

Best regards,
John
John_Bushell

Hi John -

I have just seen your post, so better late than never for the reply!  I measured a HUB car at Newcastle in the 70's, and your measurements for the buff lines are correct.

Also - the car codes were 2.25", of which 2" was yellow (the rest is the shading)
Numbers were 3 5/16" of which 3" was yellow
"NON SMOKING" was 2.75" of which 2.5" was yellow
"FIRST" was 6" to the bottom of the red shading
"CAR" was 3.5" to the bottom of the red shading.

Hope this helps!

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