Shrike Models

 
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang
I have been trying since 18 November 2015 without success. Back in December 2015, I did get a reply from someone who signed off the email as "Michael Hope (oldest son)" but nothing since then. Also nothing at all from Geoff Hope himself. Why the wall of silence?

All I won't is an acknowledgement of my request for a refund and the refund itself. Not too much to ask.
Bob K
If you haven't already, contact the relevant fair trading department in your state.  In theory, the more of us that point out the issue the more likely they are to chase it up.  I only hope the government has more success than we've been having in getting through.

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  sydneyshortnorth Junior Train Controller

Location:
I have no skin in this particular game but someone who does might want to explore ASIC's website which as of this morning (24 February) still reports "Strike-Off Action in Progress" on Shrike's Registry page.

In its helpful information pages ASIC's website contains provisions whereby:

"a third party can ask to defer a company from being deregistered if:

  • legal proceedings are underway against the company, or
  • there is an intention to issue legal proceedings against the company."

If the strike-off proceeds without intervention it'll happen two months from the date the proposed action was first notified to the company. After that things might get a bit more complicated for those seeking redress.

Steve
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Anyone been able to contact Shrike?

Phone either unavailable or unanswered, emails not replied.

Rod, better get your mate to talk to his 'customers'...

Paul
FirstStopCentral
I am having no better luck than anybody else. I have been told that he has been ordered to stay silent until certain things have come to pass. Anyone who knows Geoff, knows staying silent is almost impossible. I gather its not all medical, and lawyers may be involved.
I also believe Strike paid the registration fees on Feb 5 2015. Geoff moved house to house sit for friends, and then into his new house at that time. The renewal forms remained separated from the Company folder because of  the move and as a result the renewal was missed.
ASIC allow 12 months before starting proceedings to de-register a company due to non payment of fees.
Rod Young
  railmod Chief Train Controller

Anyone been able to contact Shrike?

Phone either unavailable or unanswered, emails not replied.

Rod, better get your mate to talk to his 'customers'...

Paul
I am having no better luck than anybody else. I have been told that he has been ordered to stay silent until certain things have come to pass. Anyone who knows Geoff, knows staying silent is almost impossible. I gather its not all medical, and lawyers may be involved.
I also believe Strike paid the registration fees on Feb 5 2015. Geoff moved house to house sit for friends, and then into his new house at that time. The renewal forms remained separated from the Company folder because of  the move and as a result the renewal was missed.
ASIC allow 12 months before starting proceedings to de-register a company due to non payment of fees.
Rod Young
comtrain
Hi Rod,
Thanks for the update, I don't suppose you know approximately when Geoff might be able to say anything (a day, a month, a year)? probably won't make too much difference, but it would be nice to know.
Cheers Alex.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Hi Rod,
Thanks for the update, I don't suppose you know approximately when Geoff might be able to say anything (a day, a month, a year)? probably won't make too much difference, but it would be nice to know.
Cheers Alex.
railmod
Absolutely no conversations at all. However two text messages from his sons phone did arrive saying he had no access to his computer, and second one said he was on the mend again.
Cheers
Rod
  railmod Chief Train Controller

Hi Rod,
Thanks for the update, I don't suppose you know approximately when Geoff might be able to say anything (a day, a month, a year)? probably won't make too much difference, but it would be nice to know.
Cheers Alex.
Absolutely no conversations at all. However two text messages from his sons phone did arrive saying he had no access to his computer, and second one said he was on the mend again.
Cheers
Rod
comtrain
Thanks Rod,
I wish all the best for him.
Cheers Alex.
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

" arrive saying he had no access to his computer"
That is not correct. He has been active on Facebook on and off over the last few days even deleting unfavourable comments.

Staying uncontactable will only make things worse. Better that he fronts his customers and comes out with the truth. Ixion might do well to do the same.

Paul
  TheMeddlingMonk Deputy Commissioner

Location: The Time Vortex near Melbourne, Australia
" arrive saying he had no access to his computer"
That is not correct. He has been active on Facebook on and off over the last few days even deleting unfavourable comments.
FirstStopCentral
You're assuming that's actually him logged into Facebook and not one of his relatives managing the page for him in the mean time.
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

I'd still like to know what, if any agreement Shrike had with the mystery third party buyer in relation to honouring the pre-paid orders.
  brissim Chief Train Controller

I really don't understand this fascination some people seem to have with the identity of the third party and the details of the "acquisition" of the C30T tooling from Shrike. Who ever the third party is - and even if its a company associated with Geoff Hope - why on earth would they besides buying the tooling off Shrike (if indeed Shrike ever actually owned the tooling in the first place), also take on the liability of the paid deposits? It doesn't make any logical sense. The liability of refunds has and will always remain with Shrike and Geoff Hope and no one else.

Tony
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

I really don't understand this fascination some people seem to have with the identity of the third party and the details of the "acquisition" of the C30T tooling from Shrike. Who ever the third party is - and even if its a company associated with Geoff Hope - why on earth would they besides buying the tooling off Shrike (if indeed Shrike ever actually owned the tooling in the first place), also take on the liability of the paid deposits? It doesn't make any logical sense. The liability of refunds has and will always remain with Shrike and Geoff Hope and no one else.

Tony
brissim
Just speculating, maybe the negotiated and agreed price for the sale of the tooling to the mystery third party reflected the cost of honouring the pre-paid orders and in response to a comment on their Facebook page on February 11 that read "Will the order be honoured by Ixion models, or is the sale still through Shrike?", the reply was "We have that agreement, I am not going to say more. Legal requirements preclude it."

Unless you specifically know what was written into that agreement you are just as much in the dark as I am on what was agreed when the sale of the tooling was negotiated.
  railmod Chief Train Controller

I really don't understand this fascination some people seem to have with the identity of the third party and the details of the "acquisition" of the C30T tooling from Shrike. Who ever the third party is - and even if its a company associated with Geoff Hope - why on earth would they besides buying the tooling off Shrike (if indeed Shrike ever actually owned the tooling in the first place), also take on the liability of the paid deposits? It doesn't make any logical sense. The liability of refunds has and will always remain with Shrike and Geoff Hope and no one else.

Tony
brissim
Tony,
Not trying to sound like an apologist for Shrike, only an interested person as I have a 30T on order, it would be nice to know what happened, its also a possibility that the third party has nothing to do with Shrike.
To me the interesting thing is that if my memory is correct that Geoff/Shrike posted on the Shrike FB & Web sites that monies had been paid to the Chinese factory and that production will start, initially with the 6 wheel tender, he also had large ads in AMRM stating they are here (or words to that effect), it begs the question why place those sort of ads unless one is confident the models would have arrived as expected, so what happened for that not to occur, and then the post by Ixion, followed by Shrike that the 30T had been pushed back in the production slot to allow the Ixion 32 to be produced before it.

Also as mentioned in another reply by kingfisher Shrike say "we have that agreement" - though I'm not sure what the agreement is as that reply is ambiguous (will Shrike honour the sale or Ixion - that response doesn't really spell it out), but I take it as Geoff/Shrike expected that the pre-pays would be fully honoured with no further payment required - but it doesn't really say anything.

I think thats why it would be nice to know what is going on.

Cheers Alex.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
" arrive saying he had no access to his computer"
That is not correct. He has been active on Facebook on and off over the last few days even deleting unfavourable comments.

Staying uncontactable will only make things worse. Better that he fronts his customers and comes out with the truth. Ixion might do well to do the same.

Paul
FirstStopCentral
Paul
he created a  moderator to run his three sites. (simply allowed one other to use his p/w for now)
Cheers
Rod
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Jim, you don't understand the questions over who the third party was? Legally there are some huge reasons it would be nice to know who it was, and what the contract said.

Here's a question for you, of the people who have paid a deposit (or worse in full), how many do you suppose will want to repay their deposit and an increased retail? Why would a third party pay full market for the tooling and risk a reduced production run when some, half or most (your guess is as good as the third party's) of the original market might just well say 'Eff it, $200 + $600+ is too much, and not order?

It does not make sense that a person in business would do this. What would happen is that you would pay the original owner the market value of the tool less the prepaid amounts, less some extra margin and retain the pre existing customers to keep the production run as large as possible.
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

" arrive saying he had no access to his computer"
That is not correct. He has been active on Facebook on and off over the last few days even deleting unfavourable comments.

Staying uncontactable will only make things worse. Better that he fronts his customers and comes out with the truth. Ixion might do well to do the same.

Paul
Paul
he created a  moderator to run his three sites. (simply allowed one other to use his p/w for now)
Cheers
Rod
comtrain
Rod, you don't actually believe what you just wrote, and neither does anybody else.

Maybe he can get his 'moderator' to answer his phone.

If he's playing games like that, then the 'moderator' is acting on behalf of Shrike and that doesn't change a thing.

Maybe we should badger Ixion to identify the mystery third person? Then we might all know what is really going on...


Paul
  TheFish Chief Train Controller

Location: Pyongyang
The following are extracts of the response I have just received from the NSW Department of Fair Trading.  Without revealing the personal details given in the letter it implies that the response from Geoff's son is that due to his hospitalisation:

"he is unable to access the order data base and therefore unable to process a refund. Mr Hope has stated that Ixion Model Railways Ltd are now in charge of the 30 class project and suggested that you contact them regarding your order."

The letter went on to say:




"Shrike Models Pty Ltd is currently in strike off action through the Australian Securities and Investment Commission.

If you wish to pursue the matter further, you have the option of lodging a claim with the NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal. Information, including an application form and fee schedule, can be obtained from the tribunal website at http://www.ncat.nsw.gov.au/Pages/cc/Divisions/consumer_claims.aspx."

Upon further investigation it seems such a claim would require an application fee of $47.

Normally I would accept paying the additional amount with Ixion to receive my order.  My reasoning for pursuing a refund and only a refund is because my personal circumstances have changed and by the time the models are delivered I won't be living in Australia and will have no need for the model.  

It does seem that with the time and expense of pursuing Shrike further the best option for those like me seeking their money back may well be to buy the model from Ixion for the extra fee and then sell the model as new but second hand below the Ixion price to someone that does want it.  For everyone that wants a model its probably pointless pursuing Shrike at all.  

I want to give Shrike more time to repay my money but neither do I want to have spent it and walk away with nothing.  

As for where the prepayments have actually gone, we may never know.  If Shrike ceases to be in the future then I would assume it lost through this unfortunate affair.  If however Shrike continues as a company, for example with the Rx project, serious questions would have to be raised.  
  Bob K Station Master

Location: East of Port Pirie
"he is unable to access the order data base and therefore unable to process a refund."

I was told this by his son in December when asking for a refund.

Obviously nothing has changed. Looks like it is going to be a long game.

Bob
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I suspect all the recent activity, the deletion of facebook messages, the phone silence etc is simply the family who have no interest in the  "toy train business" and want Geoff to get well. It is doing the "firm" irreparable harm.  

While Geoff  seems to have seruious medical concerns that has  affected all the issues over the last month, I also aknolwdge people are owed money, want refunds and want answers NOW. I cannot see this sorted out nicely no matter what way it goes.

I think Ixion have done well, they have communicated to us, they have tried to get a handle on it. Like the modeller they too are probally scratching their heads to what is happening.

Regards,
David Head
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
David, Ixion are not scratching their heads as to what's happened, they KNOW what's happened, be real mate.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Geoff's need to access the order database is false, there is no need for access to such a database for a refund. The only evidence any company should need for refund is proof of payment to them.

If you can provide proof of payment, usually by something like receipt or bank statement then a refund must be issued in timely manner.

If/when this reaches the civil action in a court level of action the court will not require access to the order database, they will only require proof of payment from the claimant.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
I really don't understand this fascination some people seem to have with the identity of the third party and the details of the "acquisition" of the C30T tooling from Shrike. Who ever the third party is - and even if its a company associated with Geoff Hope - why on earth would they besides buying the tooling off Shrike (if indeed Shrike ever actually owned the tooling in the first place), also take on the liability of the paid deposits? It doesn't make any logical sense. The liability of refunds has and will always remain with Shrike and Geoff Hope and no one else.

Tony
brissim
Tony I can write fiction better than you Smile

I have no idea what happened.  But your mad guess prompts me to write another mad guess Wink

The third Party might not have been a Shrike innovation. It could have been an Ixion innovation to separate Ixion Australia from the contract made between Shrike and the  middle man, no?

This might explain why after refusing refunds that suddenly Ixion changed their mind and offered a $450 discount to anybody who could prove he paid Shrike for a C30T... Are we following my mad guess?

After all 63 birds in the hand makes good business sense, if Shrike were paid out a sum of money to take over the C30T. You have to admit, we all expect that IXION paid a reasonable price for the project, don't we?

Ok Geoff tells me that all requested refunds are paid as of the 9th Feb, and then that does not happen. Why? back to Ixion and Birds in the Bush as against in the Hand. Ixion withholds the Customers money and puts it towards the customers engines, and then because they are great people they discount those customers their own $450 allowing them to get their lovely C30T for only an extra $85 Voila!!    The whole thing is solved. Now we need to know who the middleman was. My guess Phill Badger or second place Ixion England, because they hold the money at this stage. Doing it this way has another additional value for Ixion, and with lawyers involved possibly only on the Ixion side the contract with Geoff does not apply to the final project owner ?? Another good reason for the middle man to remain anonymous?

Another mad guess is Geoff lent money to someone or his bank account was touched up.. Another mad guess prompted by Why did he give up so quickly / Easily??

I upped your bet with mine... NOW WE HAVE TWO (or four) MAD GUESSES Very Happy
Cheers
Rod Young
  Bob K Station Master

Location: East of Port Pirie
Hi Rod,

Your comment "Ok Geoff tells me that all requested refunds are paid as of the 9th Feb," is that far from the truth its not funny.

Read my earlier post. I have been trying since the 18th November 2015 to get a refund. 12 emails later with not the decency of a reply from him. So if Geoff told you that all requested refunds are paid, he is very loose with the truth, to put it as it should be, its a lie.

So next time you talk/text/ email him, ask him where my requested refund of $440 is, that I paid for an SAR Rx loco No 207.  I paid by cheque which my bank tells me was cleared into Shrike Models account 6 days later.

He has my money, he has not refunded me. Why?????

He has my address.

He has my bank account details.

He has my telephone number.

Bob
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop
Bob,

I had to re-read Comtrain's post several times as well......

Its better when you quote / re-read the full sentence in regards to refunds.



Ok Geoff tells me that all requested refunds are paid as of the 9th Feb, and then that does not happen.
comtrain

The kicker is that comtrain goes on to say "and then that does not happen", seems like people who think that they have Shrike's ear....... are getting a bum steer just like the rest of us....

Regards,

Catchpoint
  TedFreeman Locomotive Driver

Location: Toowoomba, Queensland
I have stayed out of this as I have no vested interest like some others that have commented, but I did pose a question on the Shrike Facebook page in relation to free wagons being supplied with the Rx that was going ahead.

Another item that caught my attention was an earlier post with the following comment (Geoff moved house to house sit for friends, and then into his new house at that time.)

By what is meant 'New house', and if it is a 'New house' how was it financed.

My interest in watching this saga unfold results from the Darling Downs Model Railway Club Inc. paying a $10,000.00 Deposit on a building extension with the builder cashing the cheque then declaring bankruptsy, yet was still trading under other similar names with variations added.

The Liquidators received something like $85,000.00 for their trouble, but we lost our $10,000.00 as we were on the last link of the chain.

I am interested , but not surprised, that everyone is being kept in the dark regarding any truth's!

Ted (Teditor) Freeman.
  brissim Chief Train Controller

This really does just get better and better. Requested refunds have been paid? Clearly based on what has been said just in this forum appears not to be correct. And if they have been repaid as requested, doesn't that back up the argument put by myself and others that regardless of the details of the third party or any conspiracy theory etc, that at the end of the day Shrike has the responsibility for the refunds and no-one else.

Why can't Geoff (or those acting on his behalf) simply issue a statement on his website or wherever, clarifying the issue of refunds to those who request them.

Tony

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