Victorian Budget - 2014 BLOG

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
It seems as though the government is adamant the only way to avoid digging up Swanston St is by taking this ridiculous route, which as other have identified is clearly not so.
railblogger


Railway stations at Fishermans Bend and Domain.  How is that going to solve the overcrowding of trams on St Kilda Road which is at chronic levels?

We need 2 railway stations on St Kilda Road. For workers and students.

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  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
funding of $22 million to build and operate the new train station at Grovedale Station;
funding of $10 million for the improvement of the Warrnambool to Geelong rail link;
investigating the viability of rail services between South Geelong to Drysdale and Grovedale to Torquay. - A user

So are they finely going to build a modern station at Grovedale (after miss naming planed Marshal and Waurn Ponds stations as Grovedale)

So will any more loops be built between South Geelong and Waurn Ponds, so there can be a user friendly frequency (Instead of only a handful of services proceeding beyond South Geelong)
  blowfish Junior Train Controller

In my opinion the two alignments for the Metro system, as indicated, are a question of whether to rip up Swanston St now or later. Logically you'd expect the Doncaster line or a new South Morang/Mernda alignment to go underground and service Fitzroy/Carlton/Parville.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Regarding Grovedale the plan which has been discussed on Railpage is for a length of double track south of the Geelong tunnel.

The unresolved question is how far should the double track extend ?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
It's purely to kow-tow to property developers in the new Fisherman's Bend development but they really should finish filling up Docklands before they try and extend the CBD to Docklands. Arden Street and Parkville (Melbourne Uni, the terminus of almost all south-eastern trams) as identified in Eddingtunnel is a much more sensible idea, even though I still don't support it as a priority. Apart from that the only other (new) good idea presented in the budget was the through-routing of all lines - which has already been progressing in the last six or seven years anyway - but it would be good to see it completed.

I'm not sure of their capacity to actually win in November anyway - Napthine at war with factions in his own party about pre-selection, Geoff Shaw threatening supply... things don't look good for winning an election even with this enormous last-minute cash-splash.
don_dunstan

Compounded by the east-west truck sewer.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Even just looking at the Geelong region. brand new big hospital in northern Geelong as well as Waurn Ponds Community hospital.

Several shiny new schools in the area including one at bannockburn, another at Torquay and a Special development school in Northern Geelong (yes, that's a very safe Labour electorate.)

And somehow I think a rail line to Tulla will be a lot more useful to a lot more people than a line to Avalon which (sadly) has declining passenger numbers.
Bogong

NO new hospital in North Geelong just an enhanced  Health facility to handle Emergency Department issues.

NO new Public Hospital in Southern Suburbs,  20  chartered public beds in a new Epworth Private hospital .

Only further money for Avalon is to reserve the route for any future rail link . Don't get excited.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

that pdf that lists quite a bit of whats happening. transport wise lists on page 30 these ones, some of which we already know about that i noted



perhaps the first time a rail trail has been reclaimed for rail if the line to torquay ever happens?

what needs doing on the warrnabool line? or would this just be mainternance?

Expensive rail station at 22 million. would hope it includes stabling facilities at that price.
Galron

This list is what has been completed or currently in hand.
Drysdale & Torquay rail restoration study due out soon . (It will be based on a Rolls Royce gold plated option and immediately filed as Government has/had no intention of really doing anything here.)

The $ 10m was for the recently commissioned 900km long crossing loop at Warncoort just on the Down side of Birregurra.

Grovedale station is over engineered like all stations these days . Includes sealed car park, extension of 2 position signalling and control from Geelong signal panel. Also includes a long stabling siding located on the Down side of the mainline just on the Down side of the Anglesea Road Overpass .l
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

So are they finely going to build a modern station at Grovedale (after miss naming planed Marshal and Waurn Ponds stations as Grovedale)

So will any more loops be built between South Geelong and Waurn Ponds, so there can be a user friendly frequency (Instead of only a handful of services proceeding beyond South Geelong)
Nightfire

There is a proposal to convert the existing long No.2 Road at South Geelong into a crossing loop .  It is also proposed to add a second platform on the existing loop at Marshall .  Grovedale will ultimately become a two platform terminal station .

One can run a 30 minute Off Peak frequency on the existing infrastructure as far as Marshall, and every hour to Grovedale.
A twenty minute off peak frequency to Geelong will work with alternate trains terminating at South Geelong & Grovedale.

Currently all Off peak hourly services run to Marshall .
  mickamious Junior Train Controller

They took the alternative route because of how much it was going to cost to go the other way.. and to be honest, it's not going to be worth digging up Swanston street even in the long term. Every commuter would suffer for 5+ years if Swanston Street was to be dug up.
I think the way there going about it is pretty good to be honest.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
They took the alternative route because of how much it was going to cost to go the other way.. and to be honest, it's not going to be worth digging up Swanston street even in the long term. Every commuter would suffer for 5+ years if Swanston Street was to be dug up.
I think the way there going about it is pretty good to be honest.
Grosso

No need to dig up Swanston Street, TBM's can do the job, digging up the street Is just scare mongering.

Funny how this Governments plan for a Fishermen's Bend station, Is actuary some distance from the real Fishermen's Bend and Is only really South Melbourne / Southbank (near the light rail station of Montague)
  RustyRick Chief Commissioner

Location: South West Vic
No need to dig up Swanston Street, TBM's can do the job, digging up the street Is just scare mongering.

Funny how this Governments plan for a Fishermen's Bend station, Is actuary some distance from the real Fishermen's Bend and Is only really South Melbourne / Southbank (near the light rail station of Montague)
Nightfire

Cut and cover is way cheaper, which is why the Gov chose it to rip up Royal Park instead of going most of the way underground. The MURL was built using TBM's and more conventional digging techniques 40 years ago. Ground conditions are the same now as they were then.

If there was time for a real tender process I'm sure there would be some innovative and cost effective alternatives, but you know, the election waits for no one.....

Rick
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Pants on head retarded.
They don't care about transport - all this is is an attempt to ramp up the value of their pet redevelopment project at Port Melbourne.

(In the cheapest, most moronic, unproductive, inefficient way.)

The great wall of Swanston St stuff is BS, and demonstrates how mind numbingly insular Australians can be.
  blowfish Junior Train Controller

Wasn't the whole reason they were avoiding the TBM method, was due to the depth at which it would be done? Once entering the CBD it would have to be done either over or under the existing loop tunnels. Access to platforms would require lengthy escalators etc. for the latter
  Travelling Hooker Locomotive Driver

Location: Follows the weather up and down the coast
I'm no apologist for the Victorian Government but at least they are doing something. It's infrastructure and it's a bit like the desal plant. Right now everyone whinges and bitches about it but the next time there's a prolonged drought the guy who pushed it through will be considered a visionary genius. So too with railway lines. People are always going to squibble over the placement of stations and the like and it's inconvenient while they're being built but once they are up and running, it's like, "oh, this is quite handy".

The airport link in particular is a good idea. I use Tullamarine on a weekly basis and there's enough inbound and outbound pax to sustain fast and frequent trains into the CBD. Running the line through Sunshine and Footscray is the obvious idea. The key words here are fast, frequent and price competitive. Few people will pay fifteen bucks one way for a forty five minute run into the CBD with the next train in 25 minutes. Taxi ..... Run it every ten minutes, keep travel time under thirty minutes and ten bucks and the Government is probably on a winner. Keeping it as a normal zone 2(????) station would be even better.

Sydney's airport line is an example to follow on most points. It's fast, frequent, and well integrated into the wider network. Where it falls down is on price gouging. The station access fee at the domestic and international terminals is ridiculous. It's something the Victorian Government should take care to avoid. It deters patronage and ultimately, I think, adversely affects long term revenue.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The airport link in particular is a good idea. I use Tullamarine on a weekly basis and there's enough inbound and outbound pax to sustain fast and frequent trains into the CBD. Running the line through Sunshine and Footscray is the obvious idea. The key words here are fast, frequent and price competitive. Few people will pay fifteen bucks one way for a forty five minute run into the CBD with the next train in 25 minutes. Taxi ..... Run it every ten minutes, keep travel time under thirty minutes and ten bucks and the Government is probably on a winner. Keeping it as a normal zone 2(????) station would be even better.

Sydney's airport line is an example to follow on most points. It's fast, frequent, and well integrated into the wider network. Where it falls down is on price gouging. The station access fee at the domestic and international terminals is ridiculous. It's something the Victorian Government should take care to avoid. It deters patronage and ultimately, I think, adversely affects long term revenue.
Travelling Hooker


Could not agree more.  If the airport link can be a standard Zone 2 and why should it not be, then it will be a winner beyond any doubt.  Who cares if tourists use it?  Bring them on.  They will see the rumours they hard about Melbourne being a non rail friendly state are false.

As for Sydney, again I agree.  The Sydney train service is brilliant.  I have been a long term user if this service. The only issue in my mind is the price.

Regards
Brian
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Cut and cover is way cheaper, which is why the Gov chose it to rip up Royal Park instead of going most of the way underground. The MURL was built using TBM's and more conventional digging techniques 40 years ago. Ground conditions are the same now as they were then.

If there was time for a real tender process I'm sure there would be some innovative and cost effective alternatives, but you know, the election waits for no one.....

Rick
RustyRick

The tunnels would be way too deep for cut and cover, as they would need to go beneath the Yarra.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia


Will all western suburbs inbound metro trains now be routed through the new tunnel and not the city loop?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The tunnels would be way too deep for cut and cover, as they would need to go beneath the Yarra.
railblogger

Digging up Swanston Street Is a Spin Doctor Napthine myth.
  RustyRick Chief Commissioner

Location: South West Vic
The tunnels would be way too deep for cut and cover, as they would need to go beneath the Yarra
railblogger

So does Citylink. It's not that deep or wide, and yes it is horrible silty muck to dig through, but it's possible given a bit of thought. Flagstaff and Parliament were dug using mining techniques. Technically there's no reason Swanston couldn't be done the same way.

Rick
  gippslander Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland, Vic
Grovedale station is over engineered like all stations these days . Includes sealed car park, extension of 2 position signalling and control from Geelong signal panel.
kuldalai

If Marshall is anything to go by, it will be pretty basic and forbidding. I wonder why a metro station like South Morang gets a fabulous architect designed structure whereas Marshall got a 21st century version of a VR prefab timber station building?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

I'm thinking that Southern Cross will require underground platforms with the new line then splitting underground just north of the station.  i.e. Towards North Melb, and into the loop.

Would the some of the old underground walkways at Southern Cross be used for pedestrian access?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Discussion around social media this morning suggests the new Melbourne metro link is not what people are looking for.



Various important benefits in the initial proposal have been sacrificed in the new proposal for a small few property developers probably attached to the Liberal Party.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Compounded by the east-west truck sewer.
railblogger

The public transport announcements are just a smoke-screen for the real agenda.

Let's judge them on their record.  How many promised public transport/rail proposals got off the ground after the 2010 election? None.

Melbourne is becoming increasingly un-livable and all they can do is build more roads to let more B-doubles and triples into the place. I saw my local (marginal Liberal) member out door-knocking the other day - I can't wait till he comes to my place so I can give him an ear-full.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The public transport announcements are just a smoke-screen for the real agenda.

Let's judge them on their record. How many promised public transport/rail proposals got off the ground after the 2010 election? None.
don_dunstan

There Is no doubt that Napthine's latest dud tunnel (rail) proposal won't get off the ground ether.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
There Is no doubt that Napthine's latest dud tunnel (rail) proposal won't get off the ground ether.
Nightfire


Of all the projects the level crossings, Mildura and the Melbourne airport line are probably the only projects with any chance?

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