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Rowville Rail-line musing

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      don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: Adelaide proud
    The Outer Circle corridor is hundred-year old parkland and is not going to be used for an above-ground railway alignment (elevated or not) at any stage. It's not politically feasible. Your options are a rail over road viaduct or a big tunnel. No ifs, no buts.
    LancedDendrite

    The reservation remains in situ as it does in many places with the Rosstown Railway but I can assure you there would be a lot of upset people if they ever tried to put a railway back along that Malvern East reserve. And can you imagine the screaming masses of NIMBY's if they ever tried to use the Outer Circle reservations for railways again through East Kew and Carlton!

    When I first noticed those spaces I thought "what great foresight to have such wonderful linear parks through the leafy east, I wonder if Hoddle planned that..." but it was only historical accident.
    Posted: 29 Sep 2014 22:46

    Last edited by don_dunstan on 29 Sep 2014 22:49; edited 1 time in total

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      northbritish Chief Train Controller

    Lanced, I have to disagree with the statement "it's not politically feasible".
    Is the stupid East-West Road Tunnel "politically feasible"???
    A huge number of people are against it, the Libs would build it anyway if they can.
    If political party goes to election stating they will build Rowville rail line on old Outer-Circle alignment, and win, then it IS "politically feasible".




    The outer-circle line is 510 metres from western edge of Chadstone Shopping centre.
    Over time the Chadstone Shopping centre could expand westwards towards Waverley Rd Station on the Outer-Circle line.
    There is no doubt a tunnel would provide a more convenient route, but it also costs significantly more.
    tom9876543

    Which is a long way when you are carrying shopping, also it is uphill going to Chadstone. The centre will not expand outwards as the cost of land is to high. It would go up.
    Posted: 30 Sep 2014 09:22
      Plan B Junior Train Controller

    Which is a long way when you are carrying shopping, also it is uphill going to Chadstone. The centre will not expand outwards as the cost of land is to high. It would go up.
    northbritish


    That means when you are loaded up with shopping it will be down-hill to the station.  BUT that still is not viable.

    Could the line be elevated?  take it up the outer circle route at ground level, then raise it as it approaches Dandenong Road. Run an elevated rail above Dandenong Road. An elevated station can link into Chaddy, then the track continue on above the roads to Monash Uni and ultimately Rowville?

    Not the most aesthetic solution but it must be cheaper than tunnelling.
    Posted: 30 Sep 2014 12:22
      ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

    Location: BleakCity
    You're all nuts.

    Unless the station is at Chadstone, there is absolutely no point in building anything
    Posted: 30 Sep 2014 12:40
      gmanning1 Junior Train Controller

    Location: Sydney
    Why not just increase the frequency of this?

    http://ptv.vic.gov.au/route/view/5336

    Bus Oakleigh -> Chadstone 7 minutes.

    Bus Clayton Station -> Monash Uni 11 minutes.

    Why spend billions on a rail link. Save up for the Metro Rail Capacity Project. Spending money on extra tails in the suburbs will just prolong it for a few more decades.
    Posted: 30 Sep 2014 18:40
      ARodH Chief Train Controller

    Location: East Oakleigh, Vic
    Actually I think the bus frequency between Oakleigh and Chadstone SC is close to that seven minute count. It's just the weak link in getting them there is Warragul Rd, the traffic levels on it at times are extremely high. Vicroad's recent decision to lower the 70 kph to 60  doesn't help.

    And most of the bus passengers for Monash Uni don't come from Clayton station, they come from Huntingdale (601, 630, 900), as a bus from Clayton station (631, 703, 733) currently has the railway crossing to deal with and then turning right into North/Wellington Rd from Clayton Rd.

    http://ptv.vic.gov.au/assets/Maps/Localities/PDFs/33_Monash_LAM.pdf
    Posted: 01 Oct 2014 00:14
      wxtre Chief Train Controller
    Posted: 02 Oct 2014 00:50

    Last edited by wxtre on 02 Oct 2014 00:56; edited 1 time in total
      ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

    Location: BleakCity
    What significant increase in Metropolitan coverage work has been done in Public Transport since 2000 which is comparable to what has been done in the same time frame on the Metropolitan road network?
    New Roads:
    City Link Open, East Link Open, Peninsula Link Open, Western Bypass, Craigieburn Bypass, Dingley Bypass, Hallam Bypass, Pakenham Bypass, Monash Freeway extra lane, West Gate Fwy Extra lane, Western Ring Road Extra Lane, Springvale Road Level Crossings X 2

    Public Transport:
    Tram 109 extension

    Sigh.

    Do idiots like this think only extensions count as upgrades?

    There has been no need to extend the Melbourne network because everything we need was built a century ago.
    Posted: 02 Oct 2014 22:09
      mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

    Sigh.

    Do idiots like this think only extensions count as upgrades?

    There has been no need to extend the Melbourne network because everything we need was built a century ago.
    ZH836301

    Whilst I would not of put it so forcefully I agree with ZH836301. We need to get the existing railway infrastructure up to the 21st Century. Like upgrade our signalling so that 1. there isn't a signal failure every week & 2. Increase of Capacity. Replacement of or complete overhaul of the Comeng Trains which are fast approaching 35 years, updating of more stations, track renewal etc, etc. I would rather the Government update the existing infrastructure to something resembling modern standards then throw lots of cash on fantasy extensions to Rowville and Doncaster. Just increase the bus services to those places.


    Michael
    Posted: 02 Oct 2014 22:44

    Last edited by mejhammers1 on 02 Oct 2014 22:54; edited 1 time in total
      railblogger Chief Commissioner

    Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
    Same here. Construction of new infrastructure should not come before we get the nuts and blots of the network sound.
    Posted: 03 Oct 2014 00:07
      wxtre Chief Train Controller

    No need for further delay on Rowville rail, says engineer

    http://www.railpage.com.au/news/article-15071/
    Posted: 04 Oct 2014 11:49

    Last edited by wxtre on 04 Oct 2014 11:51; edited 1 time in total
      MtBeenak Train Controller

    A tunnel from Alamein, under the Monash (M1) Freeway and Glen Waverley line.  Clearly anyone proposing this is only looking at street maps and not topographical maps.  Alamein is already on a steep slope down from Ashburton.  Is your tunnel going to be a vertical shaft?  Get a grip, guys.
    Posted: 04 Oct 2014 20:09
      mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

    No need for further delay on Rowville rail, says engineer

    http://www.railpage.com.au/news/article-15071/
    wxtre

    Or lets NOT Build the Rowville Extension, at least not until we get the rest of the network up to Modern Standards. I just do not see the point of adding extensions to a creaking old suburban network. Lets get the basics right first!!

    Michael
    Posted: 04 Oct 2014 20:27
      ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

    Location: BleakCity
    Does that engineer have any clue about viability.

    Of course not.
    Posted: 06 Oct 2014 05:18
      railblogger Chief Commissioner

    Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
    Anyone got patronage figures of buses in the area? I'm wondering if these people campaigning for the line are (possibly) using public transport.

    On another note, I find it hard to believe that any new line would get a decent loading without a good feeder service, so we should probably improve the buses first.
    Posted: 06 Oct 2014 07:40
      railblogger Chief Commissioner

    Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
    Anyone got patronage figures of buses in the area? I'm wondering if these people campaigning for the line are (possibly) using public transport.
    railblogger

    Scratch this I found what I was looking for.
    Posted: 06 Oct 2014 08:43
      tom9876543 Train Controller

    Just for a laugh....

    Has anyone considered extending Rowville line along North Rd to Sandringham Line?
    Posted: 06 Oct 2014 14:15
      ARodH Chief Train Controller

    Location: East Oakleigh, Vic
    Just for a laugh....

    Has anyone considered extending Rowville line along North Rd to Sandringham Line?
    tom9876543


    Y'know, I don't think anyone has due what I've mentioned before most people focus on the Rowville end on whether it just ends or connects to either the Glen Waverley or Belgrave lines.

    It would have to be a tunnel as there's no chance on getting the land for a surface line. Similarly for a elevated line, the resident's of Caulfield South etc wouldn't put up with that. Then it just comes down to politics, it runs down the boundary of three state level electorates and is solid in two more. All of them fairly safe seats for one party or the other.

    The way things are going I wouldn't be surprised if Monash Uni built their own private light rail line, before a sod is even turned for the Rowville line.
    Posted: 06 Oct 2014 21:11
      torrens5022 Junior Train Controller

    The tram idea to service Monash Uni Clayton isn't a bad one, people could transfer at Huntingdale (maybe Oakleigh) for a train and connect it to the 67 tram.  
    It would have to be cheaper the making tunnels, a lot of the traffic would be local which is good for trams.
    The extension would be 7 to 9km depending on route.  
    Trams are good at linking locations.  
    It could link to other tram and train lines.
    Posted: 07 Oct 2014 00:42
      Plan B Junior Train Controller

    Trams, like buses get snarled in traffic - but if we can do some separation like they did with the 75 extension up the Burwood Highway median strip - we may get something workable.  Also need well spaced stops!

    So here is a grand* plan to connect existing tram lines into an eastern tram network...

    Run a tram down a separated Springvale road median from the 75 at Burwood highway to Wellington Road
    Connect a tram from Burke Road Camberwell, converting the Alemain line to trams - onwards over the freeway to an interchange at East Malvern Station.
    Extend the No.3 tram to that same interchange.
    Run a new tram line from the same interchange down the outer-circle line reserve, up a new tram reservation in the centre of Dandenong Road to Wellington Road and to Monash Uni.
    Later extend to loop that round through Rowville, Knox City Shopping Centre and back to the end of the 75 tram line.  

    Now move Glen Waverley station to be under an extended southern end of the Glen Shopping Centre - with tunnel pedestrian link to an adjacent tram super-stop on Springvale road.

    Add a super-stop with pedestrian overpass bridge will link the new tram-line in Dandenong Road to Chadstone Shopping Centre.

    Not the best Idea that I could have thought of - but it is better than a stupid road tunnel connecting the Eastern Freeway with Citylink!

    * insert the word stupid if you like...
    Posted: 07 Oct 2014 13:08
      Rodo Chief Commissioner

    Location: Southern Riverina
    The main tram extension needed is from Caulfield along Dandenong Road to Chadstone.  A rail overbridge could have a station at this point giving a tram link to the shopping centre. The railway through to Hughesdale should have been built as an extension of the Ashburton-Alamain  link.

    The Roweville line should at least be under construction now with further plans to extend it all the way to Ferntree Gully. A close railway with plenty of tram and bus links is the most economical way to serve Chadstone and provide some long overdue rail extensions that would link a lot of major eastern suburbs  centres.
    Posted: 07 Oct 2014 17:25
      mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

    Does that engineer have any clue about viability.

    Of course not.
    ZH836301

    Ýep, no argument there and I wish that éngineers would submit ideas about updating our tired, clapped out Commuter System to Modern Standards instead of spouting soundbites about fantasy extensions in the media!


    Michael
    Posted: 07 Oct 2014 20:50
      ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

    Location: BleakCity
    Nobody cares about Rowville.
    Posted: 22 Oct 2014 20:51
      LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

    Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
    Nobody cares about Rowville.
    ZH836301

    From Railpage's favourite band:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw9N4lXaDUs
    Posted: 22 Oct 2014 21:30
      Chidda Bang Locomotive Driver

    Location: Banned
    Rowville 34145 people
    Lysterfield 5423 people

    Compare that to

    Sunbury 33062 people
    Diggers Rest 2275 people

    Tell me guys why the government built an electric line to Sunbury but not to Rowville because the population is nearly the same in both of them but one has a train and the other doesnt. Its really unfair that they get an unfair amount of comengs out west that way but how come they get a train service and rowville doesnt. People in rowville pay taxes too and theyre sick of their taxes paying for more western suburbs trains but none going to stud park Rolling Eyes
    Posted: 23 Oct 2014 00:53

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