Rowville Rail-line musing

 
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Sigh.  Think.  You know, with that thing in your head.

Sunbury already has a line - upgrading it is thus cost effective.

Building a massive new line to a dead growth area is not cost effective.

Your taxes pay for a transport service, not a train.

You want a rail line?  Don't move to Rowville.

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  Chidda Bang Locomotive Driver

Location: Banned
The first cost of building the line goes away after a while anyway and people in rowville are more likely to work and pay more tax which covers building them a more expensive line and also the operating cost of rowville is cheaper because itd be busier and have less fare evasion than out west Smile

If you had to build a railway right now and you had to decide sunbury or rowville everyone would pick rowville so i still think its not fair they are paying for other ppls trains Rolling Eyes
  torrens5022 Junior Train Controller

So Chidda Bang your comparing Rowville which has little undeveloped land around it to for growth and Sunbury,  both have similar populations now but in the future there will be a lot more housing between Hillside and Diggers Rest,  and Diggers Rest will grow substantially,  The suburbs will grow west towards Melton and north towards Sunbury. The Melton line has a much greater need for electrification then a line to Rowville which has stagnant growth. Much better to invest in building infrastructure to service future needs.  A line to Rowville would be nice, but areas like Sunbury and Melton which have had very little spending on rail (prior to Sunbury electrification) have a much greater need for upgrades.
  Chidda Bang Locomotive Driver

Location: Banned
Sunbury and melton both had regional fast rail then sunbury got electrification Rolling Eyes both paid for mostly by eastern suburbs taxpaiers that actually work n pay for life in the western suburbs so thats 2 big projects and nothing for rowville
  torrens5022 Junior Train Controller

What about the decades of investment prior, the Belgrave / Lilydale line has had a lot of money spent on it  How about Eastlink. The western suburbs have had little investment compared to other parts of Melbourne.  Regional fast rail is for people in the regional areas, Melton and Sunbury are metro areas and need a metro service.  It would be nice for a line to Rowville but how many billions of dollars needs to be spent to service 40,000 people, when you can spend it more wisely to service an area which will have 3 or 4 times that population in the near future.
  michaelgreenhill Administrator That's Numberwang!

Location: Melbourne
It would be nice for a line to Rowville but how many billions of dollars needs to be spent to service 40,000 people
torrens5022

Closer to 100,000. Passengers won't only come from the suburb surrounding the terminus - there are also the suburbs of Wheelers Hill, Mulgrave, Notting Hill, Scoresby, Lysterfield, Lysterfield South and Knoxfield which would contribute (directly or indirectly) to the passenger figures.

Never mind that there's also a whopping great university and a couple of secondary schools, which would contribute how many thousands of passengers?

If you're going to argue figures at least argue the right figures.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity

Sunbury and melton both had regional fast rail then sunbury got electrification http://www.railpage.com.au/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif both paid for mostly by eastern suburbs taxpaiers that actually work n pay for life in the western suburbs so thats 2 big projects and nothing for rowville
Chidda Bang

You better pull your head in with your westie bashing before, in true westie fashion, I tear it off.

Need I remind you until RFR Sunbury had three hour service gaps on weekends, and still has a woeful hourly service when eastern locations have 20 minute services. Similarly with Melton, so save your faux indignation.

Much of Rowville is a similar distance from rail as Taylors Hill, Airport West, or Avondale Heights, so save it.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
It really does not matter to a great extent how many people live in the Rowville area, as the provision of services usually means that people come out of the woodwork to use them once they are in place.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
And if you add Chadstone as suggested in my proposal which has as many as 68,000 visitors on its busiest trading days as well as the residents of Chadstone. That is potentially many more patrons.
wxtre

I cannot for the life of me see how Chadstone figures in this discussion, as it is not on the same route and because of its position, would require a massively expensive tunnelled path to service it. Also, I may be wrong, but I would think people do not travel to shopping centres by rail, they travel by car so they can carry their purchases home.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Add Watergardens station (I have been part of groups that have used it to get to the shopping centre).
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Chadstone is a 10 minute walk from Hughesdale (and a bit longer from Holmesglen, have walked to/from both). Eastland is also walking distance from Ringwood, and will be much closer once David Jones et.al. are built opposite the station. Oakleigh shopping centre is just opposite the station. The Glen is also a short distance from Glen Waverley.
  ARodH Chief Train Controller

Location: East Oakleigh, Vic
Melbourne Central station, Box Hill station, the new station at Southland are examples.
wxtre

Two of those were there before the shopping centres and one of those is a transport hub.
Southland, well wasn't there something on the line of if they do it that they'd have to close Cheltenham? I bet Westfield's would like their currently limited car parking being constantly filled by commuters.

Still if a train to Rowville is a pipedream and sending said line via Chadstone's a fever-enhanced one, then what's extending a tram line out there? There's three tram lines to chose from, a branch down Stud Rd to Rowville running off the #75 might be the easiest to do after they do the Knox City extention. Adding to the #67 means it would have closer depot access and more options on what roads they can use, although if the level crossings at Carnegie remains I doubt that it would go left at Koornang Rd. Actually going by the traffic levels I've seen on North Rd and the space the road has, I wouldn't be too surprised if the first place a tram would appear on North Rd is around Golf Links Rd. Of cause the Huntingdale overpass would require widening.

What about the #3, should that be extended to Rowville? F@*$ no! It's the perfect one to be extended to Chadstone SC. Any further than that and with the seemingly regular occurrence of a #3 tram "breaking down" during peak times in the vicinity of a state MP electoral office. Well let's just say I'm not surprised that there isn't more MPs advocating tram removal, if similar happens system wide.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!

1) Its really unfair that they get an unfair amount of comengs out west that way
2) theyre sick of their taxes paying for more western suburbs trains
3) people in rowville are more likely to work and pay more tax
4) have less fare evasion than out west
5) i still think its not fair they are paying for other ppls trains Rolling Eyes
Chidda Bang

The above statements you have contributed, show proof that you are nothing more than an incredibly abnoxious child, who will no doubt grow up to become an A grade flog. Other threads you have added to (and in particular your inane questions about whether or not you will be safe on trains once you dare to travel past North Melbourne) show further proof that if you're not already, rest assured you will be an A grade flog.

The more you spout that crap, the more you make yourself look like a complete and utter joke. If you have any intention of being taken seriously on this forum, have a deep dark think about what you post, because up until now, you appear to be nothing more than a foaming flog.
  Chidda Bang Locomotive Driver

Location: Banned
Most trains dont make money the taxes fund them so if sunbury has 3 hours between trains its clearly because the area contributes not much money in the form of tax so they get the service theyve paid for but a lot of tax is paid by ppl on the glen waverley line which is why our weekend trains run every 20 minutes Smile

The power house of the states economy is the south eastern suburbs which makes up most of the states revenue so dare i say it with everything the south east does for Victoria i think it deserves to be looked after.. havent u noticed everybody from the west wants to move over south east if they could Rolling Eyes
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
You are an A grade fool.

Let me guess, you're a naive student at some relatively poor private school yet think you're better than everyone else.

The 2011 Census unemployment rate in Sunbury was 3.9% - for Knox it was 4.6%, and Monash 6.2%.

Just stop digging.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Chidda Bang, Seriously, have you ever left the comfort of Mount Waverley? Seriously. Every time you post you just prove how pointless you are.

The reasons for the Rowville line not being built are simply down to capital costs. The government (pick your party here, either way it's the same story) are not interested in investing the amount required (in the order of at least $5 billion) in an area that doesn't show significant growth. While there might be a significant population out there at the moment (including people who work/ study out there), that doesn't seem destined to grow significantly in the future. When you compare that to areas like the outer west (Werribee, Melton, etc), outer North (Craigieburn, Mernda, etc) or the outer South East (Cranbourne, Berwick, etc) you see where the growth is, and it is generally matched with capital expenditure.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

The reasons for the Rowville line not being built are simply down to capital costs. The government (pick your party here, either way it's the same story) are not interested in investing the amount required (in the order of at least $5 billion) in an area that doesn't show significant growth.
Gman_86


Is the cost of the project really that high?

How would the number of anticipated passengers compare between a Melbourne Airport line and a proposed Rowville line via Monash University?
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Most trains dont make money the taxes fund them so if sunbury has 3 hours between trains its clearly because the area contributes not much money in the form of tax so they get the service theyve paid for but a lot of tax is paid by ppl on the glen waverley line which is why our weekend trains run every 20 minutes Smile

The power house of the states economy is the south eastern suburbs which makes up most of the states revenue so dare i say it with everything the south east does for Victoria i think it deserves to be looked after.. havent u noticed everybody from the west wants to move over south east if they could Rolling Eyes
Chidda Bang

Chidda you really do not like the West to the point of outright Hatred. Listen Chidda, plenty of People pay taxes and are hardworking in the Western Suburbs, just as there are nomark scroats in the East and South East. Yes the South Eastern suburbs like Dandenong were indeed powerhouses but with Manufacturing in decline that is no longer the case.

And no most people in the West are quite happy with the west. Your comments are at best rather naive predjudice against westies and at worst someone with a massive chip on their shoulder.

Now about the Rowville line. Sunbury did not get preferential treatment, the Rail Infrastructure was already there and because of the massive population increases in that corridor it was decided to include Sunbury into the Metro network to allow for greater frequencies. Indeed because the V/Line service frequency is relatively poor on the Melton Corridor, commuters from Deer Park, Ardeer, Rockbank and Caroline Springs drive to Sunbury line stations to get to the city. As a result the Sunbury line is one of the most overcrowded lines in the system.

The Rowville corridor on the other hand is in a population stagnant area abd does not have any existing rail infrastructure so it has to be new build, some of which will be underground costing at least 2 to 3 billion. The Rowville corridor simply will not have the patronage to justify that sort of coin. Someone mentioned Monash University is there, so!!. Melbourne University does not have a heavy rail station either!

I just believe that there are more pressing issues that our rail network faces before pumping loads of money into a branch that is at best marginal.

Michael
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Is the cost of the project really that high?

How would the number of anticipated passengers compare between a Melbourne Airport line and a proposed Rowville line via Monash University?
bevans

More than likely yes, that would be the minimum cost. When you consider a fair portion of it would have to be tunneled, and in other sections there would be significant need for private properties to be compulsorily acquired. All of this sends the cost skyward fairly quickly.

As compared to the proposed route to the Airport, all at ground level, no significant private property to be acquired, shows why the Airport is the more attractive route.
  Chidda Bang Locomotive Driver

Location: Banned
The reasons for the Rowville line not being built are simply down to capital costs. The government (pick your party here, either way it's the same story) are not interested in investing the amount required (in the order of at least $5 billion) in an area that doesn't show significant growth. While there might be a significant population out there at the moment (including people who work/ study out there), that doesn't seem destined to grow significantly in the future. When you compare that to areas like the outer west (Werribee, Melton, etc), outer North (Craigieburn, Mernda, etc) or the outer South East (Cranbourne, Berwick, etc) you see where the growth is, and it is generally matched with capital expenditure.
Gman_86

Well Rowville was an area with growth and when it was growing big time with lysterfields too they shouldve put in a railway back then.. are you saying it's too late now to correct that mistake

Why do we still bother running trains to places that arent growth areas i mean why do we still run the glen waverley line seriously jks Rolling Eyes

The 2011 Census unemployment rate in Sunbury was 3.9% - for Knox it was 4.6%, and Monash 6.2%.
ZH836301

All employed as what trolley collectors at woolies and cleaners and taxi drivers driving taxis for people in the east and south east Rolling Eyes .. ppl down south east earning $100000 a year or more pay a lot more tax than your trolley boys out west in deer park and werribee and sunbury and sunshine
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Well Rowville was an area with growth and when it was growing big time with lysterfields too they shouldve put in a railway back then.. are you saying it's too late now to correct that mistake

Why do we still bother running trains to places that arent growth areas i mean why do we still run the glen waverley line seriously jks Rolling Eyes


All employed as what trolley collectors at woolies and cleaners and taxi drivers driving taxis for people in the east and south east Rolling Eyes .. ppl down south east earning $100000 a year or more pay a lot more tax than your trolley boys out west in deer park and werribee and sunbury and sunshine
Chidda Bang

Oh Dear. Well Dear boy I live in East Briiiigton, and I would be seen dead in Lysterfield, what a dump!!! And I pay twice as much tax as those chavs in Rowville and Lysterfield.

Yeah stupid statement isn't it!!

Now lets get back to the topic in hand. Glen Waverley, the Rail Infrastructure already existed, are you not seeing a pattern there.

Michael
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
6.2% for monash. I would never have thought.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Well Rowville was an area with growth and when it was growing big time with lysterfields too they shouldve put in a railway back then.. are you saying it's too late now to correct that mistake
Yes, for we can't afford to build everything YOU want, we have to prioritise, and an area with no future growth is a lower priority than an area with high future growth
Why do we still bother running trains to places that arent growth areas i mean why do we still run the glen waverley line seriously jks Rolling Eyes
Because that is already there, therefore we do not have to spend Billions of dollars of taxpayers money on building it, truth be said, if it wasn't already there, I highly doubt it would get built now.

All employed as what trolley collectors at woolies and cleaners and taxi drivers driving taxis for people in the east and south east Rolling Eyes .. ppl down south east earning $100000 a year or more pay a lot more tax than your trolley boys out west in deer park and werribee and sunbury and sunshine
How much tax did YOU pay last year? Not your parents, YOU... Seriously drop the flog act, unless getting banned is your intention.
Chidda Bang
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Why the banned ?

I am Enjoying the discussion. How else can you air your views ?
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
By all means have a meaningfull discussion, no need for the trolling though. Seriously, we all pay taxes, regarless of where you live.

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