Libs announce biggest rolling stock order in over 30 years

 
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
... 1st class Is on the way out !

Catering can be done via a food trolley and vending machines.
Nightfire

Oh I agree, the only times I've paid extra for first class, it hasn't been for the extra space, it has been for the quiet and absence of tiff-raff like drunken bogans and single mothers with unleashed and unmuzzled toddlers.

Now we have "Quiet Carriages", I no longer yearn for a first class option on mid distance Velocity trips.

Sponsored advertisement

  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Are Vlocities designed with non powered trailers in mind though? My thinking would be that any non powered trailers would effect both acceleration and top speed meaning the Vlocities wouldn't be capable of keeping to their timetable. I am no expert, but this I beleive is the reason for all cars being powered.

As for 4 car and 3 car sets,I am under the impression the plan is too have all sets made up with 3 cars, meaning they are run as either 3 or 6 car trains. I also believe the planning is already in place to run 9 car sets at peak times when it is no longer possible to run 7 car sets.
Gman_86

A four car V/Locity with 3 powered cars and one true trailer quite well powered for Geelong & Traralgon lines where 4 car sets would be used .  Current VLP  mentality of must have all 3 car sets is very expensive both acquisition and operation wise .  With 3 car sets one can only run as 3 or 6 or 9 cars .  This results in many trips running with gross overcapacity .  As operating and maintenance costs are distance based running a 6 car VL when 4 cars would be enough adds up to a lot of wasted $ over a year .

So real need of VLP is for more seats, more cars, not additional train sets .  VLP needs 24 - 30 true trailers to be inserted into 24 - 30 of the 3 car sets .  One then uses the 4 car sets on Off Peak services and as 8 cars at Peak periods .

With RRL and 20 minute Geelong Off Peak tt  VLP will end up running 6 car VL sets as 3 car VL will not be enough with extra stations. But with 4 car sets that will be OK Off peak.

PS: There are no platforms beyond Wyndamvale suitable for VL consists over 7 cars.  8 car VL sets would fit at stations Southern Cross, Footscray, Sunshine, Tarneit, Wyndamvale, North Shore & North Geelong .  Platforms can be extended to accommodate 8 cars easily at  Lara, Corio, Geelong, and Waurn Ponds.  To operate 8 car consists at Little River, South Geelong and Marshall presents problems with track and signalling .
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

What trains should we expect to see retired? The Comeng fleet are an obvious one but by the time the order is complete the H and Z carriages will be getting on a bit. I would like to see new 5 car long-distance Vlocities with buffet and first class introduced which would free up the N sets to be converted to all economy and replace the H sets on peak hour runs.
712M

VLP asked Government for 67 extra VL cars to meet patronage demands on opening of RRL in 2011.  43 + 24 = 67
But the 67 car will be delivered over 5 years from now.

These cars replace nothing, they are needed to meet current patronage - and 5 years late !!!

Next need is a new generation high capacity DMU fleet for Geelong line to release V/Locity to Ballarat, Bendigo, traralgon and allow Shepparton to go all V/Locity at increased frequency , and start on retirement of H cars which also requires electrification and duplication to Melton .

N and Z cars around on Intercity services for some years yet .
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

It was announced in Ballarat under the headline of "Government guarantees Alstom Ballarat plant more work!"

The production of the X'traps is extremely slow as pointed out above by other posters. This announcement is merely a reversal of a decision to close Alstom earlier this year and (as with common with Denis Napthine) there's no contracts, no budget allocations... just a promise.

It was no coincidence that the Liberal Party launch was in Ballarat ... they badly need those seats up there to form government.
don_dunstan

This is a bit of a cruel hoax really .  12 more Xtraps to keep Ballarat occupied and hopefully win votes in Ballarat . Probably just delays the ineviatable in that  the new generation high capacity Metro trains initially 6 cars and ultimately 9 cars on some routes as in Dandenong Line project already postulated as better value from Overseas .

So 75 extra of these trains in future would also probably be imported from Overseas as apparently the cost differentiation is too big to ignore and Governemnt is not going to have two new train types.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

The intention is to eventually  upgrade  Mangalore - Mooroopna to Class-2 track with adequate lx protection and convert Shepparton to V/Locity operation with up to 5 return trips a day .  Loco hauled N set released and tightening up N set working allows Warrnambool, and Albury to be incraesed to 4 return trips on Weekdays .
  Bethungra Train Controller

Next need is a new generation high capacity DMU fleet for Geelong line to release V/Locity to Ballarat, Bendigo, traralgon and allow Shepparton to go all V/Locity at increased frequency , and start on retirement of H cars which also requires electrification and duplication to Melton .

N and Z cars around on Intercity services for some years yet .
kuldalai

Why not a series of new high speed EMU's based on the Vlocity design with electrified route to Geelong with 20 min frequency?

Release the Geelong rolling stock to other lines.  The building of electrification will create jobs as will the building of the EMU fleet.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
A true trailer car with a 'buffet' (vending machines) inserted to form a 4-car Vlo set would work well for an upgraded Shepparton service in the future and for Echuca services, too.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Kuldalai, if you read the fine print, there is an increased local content requirement over previous trains. So it actually looks rather good for Victorian manufacturers.

Of course, which company will win those tenders is unknown, but we do know that over half will be Australian content. (Section 92 of the Commonwealth constitution prohibits any conditions that require things to be done in a particular state.)
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
I can see H sets sticking around until Melton/Bacchus gets sparked.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

I can see H sets sticking around until Melton/Bacchus gets sparked.
ZH836301

Yeah and judging by the snails pace of completing PT Projects in this state it will be at least 2035, H Class Carriages will by 77 Years old!!!

Michael
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Kuldalai, if you read the fine print, there is an increased local content requirement over previous trains. So it actually looks rather good for Victorian manufacturers.

Of course, which company will win those tenders is unknown, but we do know that over half will be Australian content. (Section 92 of the Commonwealth constitution prohibits any conditions that require things to be done in a particular state.)
Bogong

Sorry Bogong to be a negative nelly here but Ill believe it when I see it.

Michael
  TedHanson Junior Train Controller

Napthine's government has managed to order and deliver 7 trains (eight waiting in the wings)and zero trams in 4 years. That does place into some perspective his latest gazillion dollar promise. Perhaps Daniel Andrews can announce a million new trams and trains over the next 1000 years just to gazump Napthine. These days the Liberal Party lies before an election on an unprecedented scale and our public transport infrastructure falls further and further behind. Infrastructure Australia was supposed to take the politics out of planning and said Metro Rail returned a productivity dividend of 1.3 while the East West Tunnel was 0.8. Alas, the $40+ million in planning for Metro has been wasted. And we will finish up with a dud road which transfers grid lock from one side of the city to the other. The road link that we need is the gap between EastLink and Greensborough. That will take trucks off suburban roads and ease pressure on other arterials. But it will go through Liberal held seats.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
At the last election the promise was to "expand the rail fleet by 20%". Did they get anywhere near that?
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
They're being completely truthful - they'll expand the fleet by 20% by 2050.

The road link that we need is the gap between EastLink and Greensborough.
TadHanson

Does not exist, has never existed, fantasy BS from the RACV repeated by people enough times to think it's true.

That suggestion only came about because the RACV are too stupid to envision a ring road as anything but a circle.

The only legitimate route has always been Bulleen-Gborough - even the '69 plan makes no mention of anything from Ringwood.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
That suggestion only came about because the RACV are too stupid to envision a ring road as anything but a circle.

The only legitimate route has always been Bulleen-Gborough - even the '69 plan makes no mention of anything from Ringwood.
ZH836301

To be honest, the guy who designed Citylink think that route should happen instead of eastwest.

The amount of times I have headed north coming from the east and had to go up Tulla and the western ring road is PITA.  

But as a side note the outbound trip is considerable easier than going back home with the way people are forced to enter the tunnel and the arsefest of traffic coming on at Warragul rd interchange.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Why not a series of new high speed EMU's based on the Vlocity design with electrified route to Geelong with 20 min frequency?

Release the Geelong rolling stock to other lines. The building of electrification will create jobs as will the building of the EMU fleet.
Bethungra

Geelong electrification does not stack up .  If electrified one needs a whole new fleet of electric trains that can only be used on Geelong, whereas new generation DMU can be used on Geelong, Bacchus Marsh, Kyneton .

Also electrification adds extra electrical infrastructure that then has to be maintained adding to maintenance costs .  Will happen eventually in 25 - 30 years, but does still not stack up financially .  New 4 car DMU sets  (NOT more V/Locities) operating as 4 cars in Off peak and 8 cars in Peaks are the way to go on Geelong in the medium term, and also for Melton - Bacchus Marsh if the Government does not get off its backside and electrify Melton which does stack up . (Melton then as Metro service.)
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Kuldalai, if you read the fine print, there is an increased local content requirement over previous trains. So it actually looks rather good for Victorian manufacturers.

Of course, which company will win those tenders is unknown, but we do know that over half will be Australian content. (Section 92 of the Commonwealth constitution prohibits any conditions that require things to be done in a particular state.)
Bogong

Yes but the local content requirement is a bit deceptive as it includes the local on going maintenance contract after the vehicles are delivered .
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Only a bit deceptive:!:
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Geelong electrification does not stack up .  If electrified one needs a whole new fleet of electric trains that can only be used on Geelong, whereas new generation DMU can be used on Geelong, Bacchus Marsh, Kyneton .
kuldalai

Usually agree with you but don't buy this one.

It shown be known exactly how many trains they require to operate the service - it shouldn't matter whether it is an orphan fleet or not.

Whilst hourly is below the tipping point, I'd say electrification is definitely at the 20-minute service levels that have been thrown about.
  Camster Chief Commissioner

Location: Geelong
Geelong electrification does not stack up . If electrified one needs a whole new fleet of electric trains that can only be used on Geelong, whereas new generation DMU can be used on Geelong, Bacchus Marsh, Kyneton .

Also electrification adds extra electrical infrastructure that then has to be maintained adding to maintenance costs . Will happen eventually in 25 - 30 years, but does still not stack up financially . New 4 car DMU sets (NOT more V/Locities) operating as 4 cars in Off peak and 8 cars in Peaks are the way to go on Geelong in the medium term, and also for Melton - Bacchus Marsh if the Government does not get off its backside and electrify Melton which does stack up . (Melton then as Metro service.)
kuldalai

I would welcome electrification to Waurn Ponds. If for no other reason than to cut down on noise pollution. Living opposite the line, I can tell you how noisy the constant passing of V'lo's is. Not to mention the odd N class and N set, and in summer, with the door open to let the cool air in, the diesel fumes. But that is being selfish of me I suppose, and most of the time I don't mind trains going past Smile
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I would welcome electrification to Waurn Ponds. If for no other reason than to cut down on noise pollution. Living opposite the line, I can tell you how noisy the constant passing of V'lo's is. Not to mention the odd N class and N set, and in summer, with the door open to let the cool air in, the diesel fumes. But that is being selfish of me I suppose, and most of the time I don't mind trains going past Smile
Camster


Two words of great effectiveness....'Double glazing'
  witsend Chief Commissioner

Location: Front RH Seat of a School Bus
We've got some spare 2000/2100 class railcars that we are tendering to get rid of. You could use them in lieu of the older carriages. Ours our only 40 years old (thereabouts).
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
Purely out of interest, which may or may not be related to this discussion, how long has it taken Bombardier to start and get through most of the order of Adelaide's new A-Class electric trains? I know that SA ordered 22 sets (I think). I would think that this order is mid-way through...? They look a very good train, and they are based on the VLocity design.

Seen here is a picture of the latest one to roll off the production line.

http://www.vicsig.net/photo/18847
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Before anyone asks...yes they are a few inches wider than a VLocity.

Mike.
  Casper1975 Station Master

Location: Ouyen, Victoria
The Liberal/National government can't be trusted when It comes to rail look how they screwed everyone living along the Mildura line there version of regional Victoria consist of only Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo & Traralgon.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.