Traino 48's

 
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

Of course not, because I intend on taking to it with a hacking saw to practice my modelling skills! Haha. Razz


"I'm looking at my 45's now and the air filters are definitely brass etchings and the handrails are metal also"

Air filters are plastic. The radiator grille is brass etch.

"Those replacement plastic parts arent handrails; i don't know what they're called but they are in the long hood end at about engine level. Perhaps it was a just in case compromise? don't know."

Sorry I should have said handles for the hood. Don't understand how they can't be brass. People normally pick up their models by the body and these things are very flimsy. Something for the aftermarket perhaps? Same for those chains on the bogies .

I remember years ago when the Austrains Ts came out and when the Powerline 48s came out that people were up in arms about plastic handrails and detailing. The 45 somehow missed this, but at least they have brass horns like the TrainOrama 48. These are important things that need to be improved upon from all manufacturers. Importantly we have great running qualities from all models. Sound is getting easier to put in (yay!). They also sit at the right height unlike some of the new models we have just seen on the market.

We have a good crop of Alcos coming to us today.
alltrainzfan
The upper rectangular air filters on either side are brass etches as well. The others are plastic as you say because there is no need for them to be brass etches.
I normally pick up 48/45 type locos by the fuel tank from above, not by the body and I would have thought that the 45 would have to be very roughly handled to break the door handles on the long hood.
The offer still stands if you are not happy with yours.

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  kingfisher Chief Train Controller


They also sit at the right height unlike some of the new models we have just seen on the market.
alltrainzfan
Do you want to be specific here?
  meh Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Of course not, because I intend on taking to it with a hacking saw to practice my modelling skills! Haha. Razz


"I'm looking at my 45's now and the air filters are definitely brass etchings and the handrails are metal also"

Air filters are plastic. The radiator grille is brass etch.

"Those replacement plastic parts arent handrails; i don't know what they're called but they are in the long hood end at about engine level. Perhaps it was a just in case compromise? don't know."

Sorry I should have said handles for the hood. Don't understand how they can't be brass. People normally pick up their models by the body and these things are very flimsy. Something for the aftermarket perhaps? Same for those chains on the bogies .

I remember years ago when the Austrains Ts came out and when the Powerline 48s came out that people were up in arms about plastic handrails and detailing. The 45 somehow missed this, but at least they have brass horns like the TrainOrama 48. These are important things that need to be improved upon from all manufacturers. Importantly we have great running qualities from all models. Sound is getting easier to put in (yay!). They also sit at the right height unlike some of the new models we have just seen on the market.

We have a good crop of Alcos coming to us today.
alltrainzfan
It seems you have a bee in your bonnet about Auscision for some reason.

I also would not pick these up by the body; definately via the flat parts of the fuel tank. And perhaps you should thank Auscision for supplying spare handles in case people do decide to lift them like that and break the handles off. Also if you read the instructions they warn of fine details breaking off when handled roughly.

I havent seen the final Traino 48 and comparing it with the Auscision 45 is apples to oranges anyway as yes they look somewhat similar but are actually very different.

In any case I currently have 2 Auscision 48's on order and by now I have full trust and faith in them that they will deliver the best model to the market.
  alltrainzfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Here
The upper rectangular air filters on either side are brass etches as well. The others are plastic as you say because there is no need for them to be brass etches.
I normally pick up 48/45 type locos by the fuel tank from above, not by the body and I would have thought that the 45 would have to be very roughly handled to break the door handles on the long hood.
The offer still stands if you are not happy with yours.
.
kingfisher

I think brass etches look better and add to the quality of the model but this is down to personal preference.

I pick up models by the fuel tank too but we are talking about our hobby. Lots of funny people, myself included. Have seen very funny complaints at the clubs like AMRA before from careless people.

No I'm modifying mine, don't want to sell. Got my hobby blades ready, bought from Hobbyco yesterday haha. Smile

"Do you want to be specific here?"

81/G/BL.

"It seems you have a bee in your bonnet about Auscision for some reason."

Definitely not. But if someone wants to pride themselves on being the best then they should bring the best. Their AN Class was gorgeous. 86 Class was pretty much there too. But 45 Class can improve on a few things. Same for the TrainOrama 48, those windows need not open. It's fine to have them tooled as closed. Not so flimsy that way.

But I would definitely trust Auscision (and TrainOrama) to produce a top quality model without hesitation in comparison to some companies out there. It's important that manufacturers are open to constructive feedback from their customers so product improve. And that's what will drive this hobby in the future.

Cheers!
  a6et Minister for Railways

It's important that manufacturers are open to constructive feedback from their customers so product improve. And that's what will drive this hobby in the future.

Cheers!
alltrainzfan
Maybe if those who have made the revelation regarding the nose being incorrect all those years ago under the old ownership, provided the information to the current owner about the said issues, we would not be in this debate now, well after they had arrived & available for so many to see.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Maybe if those who have made the revelation regarding the nose being incorrect all those years ago under the old ownership, provided the information to the current owner about the said issues, we would not be in this debate now, well after they had arrived & available for so many to see.
a6et

Thanks A6et from bringing it back to the 48 Class.
Many hundreds must have visited the shop to see the models in all those years (pictures published 21.12.08 in Tom's News and displayed since before that, even newer samples swapped in occasionally. The pictures seem to show the short end unchanged in all that time.


But I am getting kind of sick of all the Auscision posts here on the 48 thread. Maybe some should stop comparing and others should put the Pom Poms away?

Cheers
Rod Young
  2LaGrange Train Controller

Definitely not. But if someone wants to pride themselves on being the best then they should bring the best. Their AN Class was gorgeous. 86 Class was pretty much there too. But 45 Class can improve on a few things. Same for the TrainOrama 48, those windows need not open. It's fine to have them tooled as closed. Not so flimsy that way.

But I would definitely trust Auscision (and TrainOrama) to produce a top quality model without hesitation in comparison to some companies out there. It's important that manufacturers are open to constructive feedback from their customers so product improve. And that's what will drive this hobby in the future.

Cheers!Of the errors/faults/failings you mention of Auscision 45 class most you have been wrong about such as the use of plastic grills when in fact they are brass.

The only issue that exists that you mention is the handbrake chain mounted on the bogie is plastic rather than metal on the bogie and hood door handles that you think should be brass, but they look fine to me.

The spare body side hood door handles supplied with loco I guess are there if any fall off or get broken which is a good thing.

As for the Trainorama 48 I have it is a nice model that runs very well, but as others have already pointed out the nose on No1 is wrong and I am surprised they missed that error (they had years to look at tooling samples and correct).

One thing that does bug me is the cab side windows are terrible, there is no frame around each window and the actual opening and windows them selves are way too big (more like the size of a 45 class cab window ).

Also on the Trainorama 48 the small body side filters ( the 3 square ones on rear both sides of loco ) should not be see through as on the prototype they are oil soaked filters originally or paper filters on later years of service.

When Auscision produce their 48s we can do a direct comparison but I doubt they will get the nose wrong.

We have never had it better with the number of manufactures/importers producing Aussie outline.

Even with the dark predictions we will all suffer if Trainorama were to fall over I strongly doubt it. There are currently 8 companies producing Aussie locos that the highest number ever. So even if a couple retire/fold there is plenty of competition out there for the modellers dollar.
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

Thanks A6et from bringing it back to the 48 Class.
Many hundreds must have visited the shop to see the models in all those years (pictures published 21.12.08 in Tom's News and displayed since before that, even newer samples swapped in occasionally. The pictures seem to show the short end unchanged in all that time.


But I am getting kind of sick of all the Auscision posts here on the 48 thread. Maybe some should stop comparing and others should put the Pom Poms away?

Cheers
Rod Young
comtrain
Seems to me as if you were the first one Rodney to mention Auscision in the debate over the last couple of days about the nose shape of the TOR 48 with this rather foolish statement that was obviously designed to get a bite.

'I wonder if the 45 Class had the same design shape. If so the Auscision model looks very flat as well ??'
  M636C Minister for Railways

Seems to me as if you were the first one Rodney to mention Auscision in the debate over the last couple of days about the nose shape of the TOR 48 with this rather foolish statement that was obviously designed to get a bite.

'I wonder if the 45 Class had the same design shape. If so the Auscision model looks very flat as well ??'
kingfisher
One page back I posted:

There was no base required on the rear end (of the 48) which was flat, nor on either end of the 45 class. (for the same reason)

Clearly if people are trying to score points, reading posts that provide useful information is not required.

The DL 531 and DL 532 had the shaped nose.
THe DL 541, DL 543, several variations of DL 535 and the DL560 (which is pretty much the rest) had both ends flat

The 45 and 600 are model DL 541.

M636C
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Seems to me as if you were the first one Rodney to mention Auscision in the debate over the last couple of days about the nose shape of the TOR 48 with this rather foolish statement that was obviously designed to get a bite.

'I wonder if the 45 Class had the same design shape. If so the Auscision model looks very flat as well ??'
kingfisher
Yeah I admit, you sucked me in Wink
But not any more I will send you a PM because I have learned one lesson, their is stuff that should not be aired particularly when you are angry. Its not my place to damage any Company or to throw a party for some others. I will leave that in your capable hands.
You do have a PM
Cheers
Rod Young
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
One page back I posted:

There was no base required on the rear end (of the 48) which was flat, nor on either end of the 45 class. (for the same reason)

Clearly if people are trying to score points, reading posts that provide useful information is not required.

The DL 531 and DL 532 had the shaped nose.
THe DL 541, DL 543, several variations of DL 535 and the DL560 (which is pretty much the rest) had both ends flat

The 45 and 600 are model DL 541.

M636C
M636C
Thanks M636C. I did see your reply and was thankful for it, it answered my question, but Kingfisher is rather determined to shoot down Trainorama as all can see.
Cheers
Rod Young
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

Yeah I admit, you sucked me in Wink
But not any more I will send you a PM because I have learned one lesson, their is stuff that should not be aired particularly when you are angry. Its not my place to damage any Company or to throw a party for some others. I will leave that in your capable hands.
You do have a PM
Cheers
Rod Young
comtrain
You have my motives all wrong champ.

If you care to look you will notice that I was the person who pointed out that the nose on the TOR model agreed with the Greg Edwards Data Sheets drawing when no one seemed to know what the correct shape was which seems strange for someone who is trying to 'damage any Company or to throw a party for some others'.

You will also notice in another comment from 12 Feb I stated 'I'll take the TOR model any day over the Powerline model.'
  a6et Minister for Railways

As for the Trainorama 48 I have it is a nice model that runs very well, but as others have already pointed out the nose on No1 is wrong and I am surprised they missed that error (they had years to look at tooling samples and correct).

Bare in mind that when the original samples were on display there was a different crew in charge, than the ones that took over around 2 years ago, & they old firm could have advised the new one of the problem after all that is where the association with this revealed problem has eminated from.

One thing that does bug me is the cab side windows are terrible, there is no frame around each window and the actual opening and windows them selves are way too big (more like the size of a 45 class cab window ).

Go do a check of the same window area of a real 45 against a 48cl & you will see, how close they really are.

Also on the Trainorama 48 the small body side filters ( the 3 square ones on rear both sides of loco ) should not be see through as on the prototype they are oil soaked filters originally or paper filters on later years of service.

True but the modelling public asks for the brass etches over plastic which Powerline did with there version which looks like blobs. Simple to add some thin acustic mat or black foam on the inside to replicate the filters.

When Auscision produce their 48s we can do a direct comparison but I doubt they will get the nose wrong.

Yes, & they will have gone over the TOR with a silk screened fine tooth comb by then
2LaGrange
  CraigW Assistant Commissioner

Maybe if those who have made the revelation regarding the nose being incorrect all those years ago under the old ownership, provided the information to the current owner about the said issues, we would not be in this debate now, well after they had arrived & available for so many to see.
a6et
Because that worked so well with the PHG didnt it?

Craigw
  a6et Minister for Railways

Because that worked so well with the PHG didnt it?

Craigw
CraigW
Previous ownership again, & according to what I heard the GA's used did not show the rear horizontal section. So the GA the designer used won out.
  CraigW Assistant Commissioner

Previous ownership again, & according to what I heard the GA's used did not show the rear horizontal section. So the GA the designer used won out.
a6et
I would suggest you heard wrong. The GA drawings I have all show the prototype arrangement.

In any case, the point is that even if someone did point out the error, there is no guarentee it would have been corrected. there is plenty of proof of this from a number of manufacturers.

Nothing beats checking your own product though.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
I would suggest you heard wrong. The GA drawings I have all show the prototype arrangement.

In any case, the point is that even if someone did point out the error, there is no guarentee it would have been corrected. there is plenty of proof of this from a number of manufacturers.

Nothing beats checking your own product though.
CraigW
It seems the Sydney modellers who visited Tom's over the six years(?) the model was on display failed to point out any defects either.
How many of us on RP actually looked at the model and told Tom's it was wrong?
So far nobody seems to admit to that?
I think Allan Brown was with the Tom's team at the time (Although involved in another project) and he holds a seat on the "Table of Knowledge"  What say you Allan?
Cheers
Rod
  CraigW Assistant Commissioner

It seems the Sydney modellers who visited Tom's over the six years(?) the model was on display failed to point out any defects either.
How many of us on RP actually looked at the model and told Tom's it was wrong?
So far nobody seems to admit to that?
I think Allan Brown was with the Tom's team at the time (Although involved in another project) and he holds a seat on the "table of Knowledge"  What say you Allan?
Cheers
Rod
comtrain
Rod,
Possibly slightly crossed wires here. The GA I referred to was for the PHG - I noted the errors on the pilot model and notified them of that.

Never looked at the 48, so wont take the blame for that one.

To look at a pilot model, or indeed any model and pass comment on it you need to look at photos of the real thing and compare them. If I see something that does not look right, then I haul out a GA and start checking. However, a pilot model needs to be checked against the drawings that were sent to the factory as well. I would have thought any issues with the nose would have been proven at that point.

Craig w
  a6et Minister for Railways

I would suggest you heard wrong. The GA drawings I have all show the prototype arrangement.

In any case, the point is that even if someone did point out the error, there is no guarentee it would have been corrected. there is plenty of proof of this from a number of manufacturers.

Nothing beats checking your own product though.
CraigW
No doubt that if what I was told was true, then the question has to be asked are there different GA drawings out there?

2nd point is relevant, as photographic evidance was available but then again the company at that time was under different management then today.  Yes, & there have been far more bloopers made elsewhere, that have not been under the same microscopes over time.

Yes checking for oneself makes for a good decision, & one I made regarding a couple of models I cancelled prior to delivery, best decision I ever made.
  ajbrown Junior Train Controller

It seems the Sydney modellers who visited Tom's over the six years(?) the model was on display failed to point out any defects either.
How many of us on RP actually looked at the model and told Tom's it was wrong?
So far nobody seems to admit to that?
I think Allan Brown was with the Tom's team at the time (Although involved in another project) and he holds a seat on the "Table of Knowledge"  What say you Allan?
Cheers
Rod
comtrain
Yes and yes.

Cheers,
Al
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Yes and yes.

Cheers,
Al
ajbrown
Yes and Yes, it was very much unfair of me to ask that question considering agreements signed etc etc Sad

My only interest here is to keep all the Companies producing good product.
Producing errors just does not cut it.

I would dearly love to know how the dies ....   ok nuff said Sad
All of our producers are in my opinion building sub standard product and charging the highest prices they can. Great Public Relations in itself does not mean great models. All it means is they tell you how good they are, and some believe it.
That's not good enough for me.
Cheers
Rod Young
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

I have had two instances, one at Tom's / Bob's and one with another company, that I have taken the time to point out what I believe were issues with upcoming models at the 'factory sample' stage.

The model in questions at Tom's / Bob's was a paint colour issue and when I mentioned it to the guy at the counter, was told in no uncertain terms that "I was wrong" and that he had personally "matched a chip of paint from the real thing". The manner in which he related that, with other customers nearby, ensured that I wouldn't be bothered doing it again. It is fairly well known that the final model is 'the wrong colour'...

The other model, related to a minor detail error that I picked up on a painted sample. Again a discreet discussion was held in a fairly busy environment. I was later given a completed model upon there release as a token of their appreciation.

There have been other instances in the shop at West Ryde, under current and previous ownerships, that I have witnessed 'we know better than you' style discussions with customers, in person or on the phone.


Paul
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

I think brass etches look better and add to the quality of the model but this is down to personal preference.
alltrainzfan
The lack of any sort of internal baffling behind the etched air intakes leaves the interior of the model exposed. I'll take the way Auscision tackled this issue with the 45 any day.

The absence of any sort of representation of the window frames also badly lets the model down. Another area Auscision got right with the 45 and even .Powerline got this right with their 48.
  alltrainzfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Here
The lack of any sort of internal baffling behind the etched air intakes leaves the interior of the model exposed. I'll take the way Auscision tackled this issue with the 45 any day.

The absence of any sort of representation of the window frames also badly lets the model down. Another area Auscision got right with the 45 and even .Powerline got this right with their 48.
kingfisher

Having those grilles add depth to the model rather than the plastic from the Auscision 45 or the Powerline 48. Give me the TrainOrama grilles anyday. Also good for those like me with sound decoders as it allows for the sound to come out and heat dissipation. If I go to AMRA on a Saturday for the day running I can have it go all day full blast on sound. Very Happy

The window frames are actually there but not painted. It's actually a really thin window frame which probably could not have been painted well , and in which case could have been overscale to have the representation there.
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
To get good sound you need to have a sealed speaker enclosure, not holes. Seal the speaker and don't be that guy who has his sound fitted locos blaring....

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