Traino 48's

 
  Dazz Deputy Commissioner

I waited a bloody long time for my Auscision 422 from payment to delivery, while other models were announced later and delivered sooner, but that's clearly different!

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  CraigW Assistant Commissioner

I waited a bloody long time for my Auscision 422 from payment to delivery, while other models were announced later and delivered sooner, but that's clearly different!
Dazz

Abscission still have "Golden Boy" status. The Halo for Trainorama fell off a while ago and they are now receiving Eureka style kickings on a Eureka stye basis.

Craig W
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
BB on the other hand you might look at yourself as fortunate you will get any model, even if it is a bit late. Bear in mind that the company you ordered from all those years ago went to the wall and was bailed out by one of the shareholders. Big Bad Bob has been good enough to honour existing orders.
John_Bushell

Trainorama / Tom's Hobbies / Ozmodco Pty Ltd had not got as far as "going to the wall". Regardless of any gossip (factual or not) regarding financial circumstances of that company is was still registered and trading legally (ie wasn't bankrupt, deregistered, etc) when ownership was sold/transferred to another entity (WILKORO Pty Ltd) who at that time took on legal responsibility for existing contracts to secured and unsecured creditors.  Wilkoro has a legal responsibility to honour those existing orders.
  sydneyshortnorth Junior Train Controller

Location:
To move this thread along a bit before it attracts a Moderator’s crimson padlock, but also widening it slightly if I may, (though TOR’s 48s still feature in what follows – be patient!), can I ask if anyone else noticed the proviso that appeared in tiny print right at the bottom of Auscision’s most recently published Order Form, the one for the limited edition SSR-liveried GT46s.

It said ‘Model details and delivery dates subject to change without notice’. Putting this statement in there will give the firm some wriggle-room in the buyer/seller contract if these models don’t turn up by the delivery date that was (almost) promised on the Order Form: ‘Models due to arrive in December 2014’.

I wonder if the lawyers might have had a quiet word. If so, then the importer might wish it had included a similar proviso on its Class 48 Order Form when it was first published.

I say this because a recent opinion by ‘The Boys From The RACE’, represented by DQ2004 on another thread in this Forum, suggested that Late 2016 might be a more likely delivery window for Auscision’s huge gallery of Class 48s than the ‘Delivery Expected 2015’ timeframe shown in the firm’s Order Form.

If ‘The Boys’ have it right then not only will there be some very frustrated pre-paid 48 Class buyers out there but also, and significantly in a business sense, if any of them had cancelled previous orders with another supplier after being attracted by exuberant marketing slogans (I seem to remember ‘Don't buy another 48 Class until you see our 48!’) then that supplier too might have a bone to pick with its rival.

If Auscision had included a ‘subject to change/right to vary without notice’ statement on its 48 Class Order Form it could probably have pre-empted any timing complaints or other come-back from its own pre-paid buyers and possibly also from other suppliers of competing models if the 2015 delivery expectation ends up being too optimistic. ‘Caveat emptor’ would apply.

Apologies for continuing the rather legalistic tone, but I’ve also been thinking about the apparent shortage of voluntary, detailed communication from suppliers more generally, not just TOR or AM, which has been a hot topic in this Forum.

I can’t imagine there’s any real personal reluctance amongst our suppliers to engage and keep in better touch with their customers. As has already been suggested here, it makes no sense to alienate your revenue stream.

So I’m wondering whether the deficit of up-to-date news and specific information might have more to do with a desire to avoid quoting anything ‘factual’, especially in writing, that might later be interpreted by pre-paid customers as forming part of an implied contract for sale and purchase, and which could be potentially actionable if it later proved to be materially wrong or misleading, even if it was given in good faith at the time.

Personally, I’ve no doubt all our importers mean well and want to keep their customers happy as best they can for the longer-term, each in their own way, using whatever methods and media suit their various personalities and their trading styles. However, at some point they all do actually have to supply the goods that customers have paid for. Otherwise they must front up and admit that they cannot deliver within the estimated time period or perhaps at the quoted price, and then work the problem through with their customers accordingly.

Finally, on a lighter note, while I really dislike the term ‘punters’, often used to describe valuable paying customers, I have to admit it might be an appropriate description at the moment for buyers in the somewhat risky and seemingly random model train pre-order space!

Steve
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Trainorama / Tom's Hobbies / Ozmodco Pty Ltd had not got as far as "going to the wall". Regardless of any gossip (factual or not) regarding financial circumstances of that company is was still registered and trading legally (ie wasn't bankrupt, deregistered, etc) when ownership was sold/transferred to another entity (WILKORO Pty Ltd) who at that time took on legal responsibility for existing contracts to secured and unsecured creditors. Wilkoro has a legal responsibility to honour those existing orders.
Poath Junction

I expected some bush lawyer to bring that up!  My point still stands.  We can be grateful that BBB chose to honour the orders without attempting to wriggle out of the deal!

There are some things in this world more important than the law, believe me!  One of them is protecting one's good name.
  2LaGrange Train Controller

I find it amusing that a previous poster complained about how long Auscision took to deliver 422 and the fact that their models dont always come out in the announced order,what are Auscision to do ...stop all production of models when a problem comes up with one model because "we must keep the models in announced order" ! No they do the practrical thing and keep things moving.Example 86 class no issues and less complexity so it beat the 46.
At least Auscision actually produce what they announce and a fair bit quicker than Trainos 8 year saga of 48 or Eurekas R and 40 class.
Another poster mentioned the disclaimer being missing on 48 form,not sure about that my form has same disclaimer as GT46 form.
I also think if Auscision get their 48 here by late 2015 thats a good effort of less than 2 years.
This next part has been quoted by many,if you dont want to pre pay dont,pay more when they get here or risk missing out completely...simple.
Dont pre order so we dont have to hear all the wingeing about Auscision or however has had my money for x numer of months bla bla bla,
Before the usual chorus of " they said it will be here early 2015"
Read the language they use..."EXPECTED DELIVERY" means just that if there are no issues thats is when the model may be here but there are too many factors that affect a delivery date that why its not garanteed.
I trust Auscision to deliver the goods so to speak,look at their web site and all they have already produced in the last 7 or so years.
Compared to others they are way in front in my opinion and i trust them enough to prepay,get the models i want at a cheaper price.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
'Model details and delivery dates subject to change without notice’.


This is standard practice in just about all things as if something then has be changed it can be done so if needed and still have what ever in production. Just about all manufacturers have it some were in a catalogue or on a website to cover their backsides in case of something going wrong. If they don't then they should!
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
I expected some bush lawyer to bring that up! My point still stands. We can be grateful that BBB chose to honour the orders without attempting to wriggle out of the deal!

There are some things in this world more important than the law, believe me! One of them is protecting one's good name.
John_Bushell

You mean the good name of a company you besmirched by saying "Bear in mind that the company you ordered from all those years ago went to the wall and was bailed out by one of the shareholders". Tread carefully, the law allows redress to protect one's good name.
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
To move this thread along a bit before it attracts a Moderator’s crimson padlock, but also widening it slightly if I may, (though TOR’s 48s still feature in what follows – be patient!), can I ask if anyone else noticed the proviso that appeared in tiny print right at the bottom of Auscision’s most recently published Order Form, the one for the limited edition SSR-liveried GT46s.

It said ‘Model details and delivery dates subject to change without notice’. Putting this statement in there will give the firm some wriggle-room in the buyer/seller contract if these models don’t turn up by the delivery date that was (almost) promised on the Order Form: ‘Models due to arrive in December 2014’.

I wonder if the lawyers might have had a quiet word. If so, then the importer might wish it had included a similar proviso on its Class 48 Order Form when it was first published.
sydneyshortnorth

Perhaps you should have looked at page 1 of the other order forms, the 'subject to change' information has been on them all. eg http://www.auscisionmodels.com.au/PDFs/830%20Class%20Order%20Form%20Page%201.pdf for the 830's or better still the Tangara order form page 1 which notes the 'subject to change' along with 'expected 2013' (thus confirming it's nothing new)http://www.auscisionmodels.com.au/PDFs/Tangara%20Order%20Form%20Page%201.pdf
  Albert Chief Commissioner

Just had a phone call from Bobs Hobbies, the first batch of 48's are in and will be available from Monday 22nd.
  John_Bushell Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
You mean the good name of a company you besmirched by saying "Bear in mind that the company you ordered from all those years ago went to the wall and was bailed out by one of the shareholders". Tread carefully, the law allows redress to protect one's good name.
Poath Junction

How in God's name does that besmirch the good name of the company ion question?  Really!  Our society would be about 2,000% better off if we lost the petty legalistic approach to life.

Just my opinion and to be honest I don't give a twopenny stuff whether you agree or not.

Best regards,
John
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Well  to all I'll state now that I'm going to Bob'sHobbies this Saturday at about 2pm. See you there if you want to sight a Railpage mod. And I'm comming from Melbourne ( on the way to Brisbane) so it is not a  sinmple task.....

And hope to find out more detail if offered, but I could ring 'em if i really wanted to. Still I'll let  you all know, as have others....

Regards,
David Head

ps hope to get to the MRC at midday too....... Wink
  gw0071 Deputy Commissioner

Are you dropping in on Se7en Hills while you're ..... hang on, that's right - the store is being delivered out of announcement sequence

Maybe their 48 will beat the store...
  ed31880 Train Controller

the store has been opening soon for 5 years and the 46 class has been 6 years in the making.
  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

the store has been opening soon for 5 years and the 46 class has been 6 years in the making.
ed31880

Has it been 6 years since Auscision announced the 46 class, I think not and at least they have kept their customers informed of progress including a range of painted samples.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
How in God's name does that besmirch the good name of the company ion question? Really! Our society would be about 2,000% better off if we lost the petty legalistic approach to life.

Just my opinion and to be honest I don't give a twopenny stuff whether you agree or not.

Best regards,
John
John_Bushell

I posted this in relation to someone else recently, but just in case you missed it, I'll mention it again.

'You're entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.'

When your opinion does not match the facts, you are in trouble.

Society would be better served if we dealt more in fact and less in opinion, and that is both a fact and my opinion.
  Iain Chief Commissioner

Location: Concord, NSW
The point is that saying that "the company went to the wall" could be misconstrued especially as there were a number of statements at the time saying the Bob simply bought Phil out of the partnership.

Cheers

Iain
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

the store has been opening soon for 5 years and the 46 class has been 6 years in the making.
ed31880


What a load of crap. 6 years ago they asked if people were interested in the 46 and 86 Class Electrics.

The order form for the 46 Class (and hence paid orders / deposits) with the available liveries was released
on 01/03/2013.

Paul
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
What a load of crap. 6 years ago they asked if people were interested in the 46 and 86 Class Electrics.

The order form for the 46 Class (and hence paid orders / deposits) with the available liveries was released
on 01/03/2013.

Paul
FirstStopCentral

Look, can you please stop with posting facts instead of opinion? Laughing
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

Look, can you please stop with posting facts instead of opinion? Laughing
Aaron


Sorry Aaron, I don't know what came over me.

I should have known this is not a place for 'facts'...

Paul
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Sorry Aaron, I don't know what came over me.

I should have known this is not a place for 'facts'...

Paul
FirstStopCentral

Especially incorrect facts Wink The 46's were announced as possible in 2006 (refer http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1171970.htm ) and production confirmed in the July 2007 newsletter (refer http://web.archive.org/web/20070829202713/http://www.auscisionmodels.com.au/auscision_news_july_2007.htm). Keeping this on topic it means Auscision may now be in a position to replace Eureka & Trainorama for 'longest period between announcement of a loco and deliver of said loco' as that's now 7.5 years.

* excludes announcements for locos years ago that are unlikely to be produced such as the Trainorama KL's & rebuilt 49's that were going to come before the original 49's.
  Indefatigable Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Getting back to the loco's, I'm looking forward to picking up my 48 on Monday. Will post photos.

Cheers,
Ben
  a6et Minister for Railways

Getting back to the loco's, I'm looking forward to picking up my 48 on Monday. Will post photos.

Cheers,
Ben
Indefatigable

That will be nice & look forward to seeing the pics.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Especially incorrect facts Wink The 46's were announced as possible in 2006 (refer http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1171970.htm ) and production confirmed in the July 2007 newsletter (refer http://web.archive.org/web/20070829202713/http://www.auscisionmodels.com.au/auscision_news_july_2007.htm). Keeping this on topic it means Auscision may now be in a position to replace Eureka & Trainorama for 'longest period between announcement of a loco and deliver of said loco' as that's now 7.5 years.

* excludes announcements for locos years ago that are unlikely to be produced such as the Trainorama KL's & rebuilt 49's that were going to come before the original 49's.
Poath Junction

For those not around in those heady days, & before the age of outdoing/bidding against each other, each of the importers who were wonderfully described as the NSW GANG OF FOUR all had a future models list, & each had a different name for the list also.  If all the promises & predictions that were put out, along with the projected release dates of them had eventuated most modellers would have been declared bankrupt by now also.

The posted paper newsletters are very much a thing of the past, as are most of the online newsletters, which still offer the same models but well past their original projected delivery times.  Today, the big difference is the insocial media outlets from each of them, well at least those who have them or keep them up to date.  In the newsletter days they were generally regular on the basis of being quarterly, at least with Austrains & TOR, the other two were spasmodic at best but you at least got one a year from them or maybe 2 in a good year.

Today, with the social media, & this applies in both the model & real world it would seem that those who have the art of public speaking like politicians are winning the race (sorry Toby) as they have the gift of marketing & cover ups of what has not come, with their showing off & wooing the faithfull.  Its a winning art & good one them but in the end who really is the winner?  That will be seen when the next round of the new generation takes over, with the wonders of mega public messimerising skills to bring out the models that still have not arrived.
  FirstStopCentral Chief Train Controller

Especially incorrect facts Wink The 46's were announced as possible in 2006 (refer http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1171970.htm ) and production confirmed in the July 2007 newsletter (refer http://web.archive.org/web/20070829202713/http://www.auscisionmodels.com.au/auscision_news_july_2007.htm). Keeping this on topic it means Auscision may now be in a position to replace Eureka & Trainorama for 'longest period between announcement of a loco and deliver of said loco' as that's now 7.5 years.

* excludes announcements for locos years ago that are unlikely to be produced such as the Trainorama KL's & rebuilt 49's that were going to come before the original 49's.
Poath Junction

They can survey what people want, they can advise that they are going ahead with a project, but they only started accepting orders (paid in full or part) in March 2013.

Others have been accepting payment for projects and holding that money for 6-7 years. If we start adding in the time from when the projects were first announced, then we're probably pushing 9-10 years in some cases.

I think others can form their own opinions.

Paul

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