50 level crossings to be removed

 
  topher1976 Train Controller

Location: Mill Park, Vic
Lets not forget the Liberals forever taking credit for Regional Rail ; Commenced and funded by the ALP .
Also whatever happened to the lines to Rowville & Avalon ?
Wasn`t it Mr Abbott who said the election " Is a  a referendum on the East West Link ? Whatever happened ?
Crossover
My sentiments exactly mate.  They love taking credit for Labors projects.  Springvale and Mitcham also come to mind..

I noticed you mentioned Rowville and Avalon.  Don't forget Doncaster as well!

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  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Can anyone tell me what stage North Road Ormond is up to - when you look at the Vicroads website all they say is that it's still 'planned', yet I know for a fact it's slated for sometime this year.
  topher1976 Train Controller

Location: Mill Park, Vic
And you know what Don, The Melbourne Metro will not be built either!!! And I hope it doesnt.
mejhammers1
Sorry, but Melbourne Metro NEEDS to be built!  Have you not noticed the congestion in the MURL??
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Lets not forget the Liberals forever taking credit for Regional Rail ; Commenced and funded by the ALP .
Also whatever happened to the lines to Rowville & Avalon ?
Wasn`t it Mr Abbott who said the election " Is a  a referendum on the East West Link ? Whatever happened ?
Crossover
Lets see the ALP make a start on Rowville & Avalon then, if they are able to 'fund' these projects themselves.

Whichever party progresses a project has a right to take credit for it, merely thinking up the idea means nothing, what counts is actually doing it.
  topher1976 Train Controller

Location: Mill Park, Vic
Lets see the ALP make a start on Rowville & Avalon then, if they are able to 'fund' these projects themselves.

Whichever party progresses a project has a right to take credit for it, merely thinking up the idea means nothing, what counts is actually doing it.
TheBlacksmith
Rowville maybe, but find Avalon pointless due to very few flights from there.  The bus connections to Avalon are not too bad from Southern Cross
  NSWGR8022 Chief Train Controller

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Lets see the ALP make a start on Rowville & Avalon then, if they are able to 'fund' these projects themselves.

Whichever party progresses a project has a right to take credit for it, merely thinking up the idea means nothing, what counts is actually doing it.
TheBlacksmith

The owner of Avalon was to put some money in for that project.  has the planning actually been completed.

haven't you noticed about Victoria?  All talk. Nothing really ever get's built.  It is study and study and study.

Both parties committed to the Mernda extension.  is that still going ahead?
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
The owner of Avalon was to put some money in for that project.  has the planning actually been completed.

haven't you noticed about Victoria?  All talk. Nothing really ever get's built.  It is study and study and study.

Both parties committed to the Mernda extension.  is that still going ahead?
NSWGR8022
It took your state 45 years to get trams back and working again. Glass house, stones....
  topher1976 Train Controller

Location: Mill Park, Vic
Both parties committed to the Mernda extension.  is that still going ahead?
NSWGR8022
Yes, the Mernda extension is going ahead.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Sorry, but Melbourne Metro NEEDS to be built!  Have you not noticed the congestion in the MURL??
topher1976
I disagree, well not until the rest of the network is modernised or that the rest of the network will be modernised in conjunction with the Melbourne Metro. I just think it is a bit odd to add a completely new railway and tack it on to basically a fragile commuter system. There is so much that can be done with PT without spending billions on a tunnel that is serving places already well served by PT.

Michael
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

It took your state 45 years to get trams back and working again. Glass house, stones....
TheBlacksmith
@The Blacksmith

I speak as a proud Victorian, but is that all you've got !!!

We kept our trams mostly by accident and due to a certain Sir Robert Risson, or we would have gone the same way as most large cities of the English speak world.

When it comes to rail NSW has it all over us Vics. Their system is much more complex and larger than ours. And despite what you hear in the media and Newcastle notwithstanding, their planning of the Rail network and the personnel they are hiring to run it, leaves us for dust. More to the point they have a Minister in Gladys Berejiklian who is passionate about her portfolio, Terry Mulder gave me the impression he just does not care and Jacinta Allen, well I have not seen or heard much from her.

Take for Instance the purchasing of Trains. When NSW orders new trains they go for custom built trains and they order lots of them. The Waratah Train project consisted of 78 8 Car Double Deck Trains. They do that because they realise the Rolling Stock needs renewing, and they tend to do it every 10 Years. (Tangara, Millennium, Waratah). What we have in Victoria is both political parties sweating the rolling stock to the point of exhaustion and then (apart from the Original Orders and 1 further order of Xtrapolis trains), ordering 6 trains here and 7 trains there and they do it because they want to make a political announcement of these tiny train orders keeping a plant open. Worst still they order the most basic off the shelf product which are barely fit for purpose.

I live on the Frankston line; which is subject to the Bayside rail Project. Reading the posters, there is more spin then Shane Warne!!! Xtrapolis, the fastest largest trains on the network, what! They are restricted to 90kph on the Melbourne System. To cut costs even further spring coils are used for suspension instead of air bags. The trumpeting of such a basic train of which major important rail networks wouldn’t touch with a 50 mile bargepole is rather annoying to say the least. The Xtrapolis is a cheap off the shelf train that is used in only one other jurisdiction, Valparaiso in Chile. The Siemens Train is used in the U-Bahn systems in Europe and not even deemed a Commuter Train but rather a light metro train. It is no wonder they have had problems early in their use with their breaking systems.

Glass Houses, yeah when it comes to Public Transport, Victoria is the Biggest glasshouse of them all.

Michael
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
I speak as a proud Victorian, but is that all you've got !!!
mejhammers1
Gimme a break, it was a cheap shot, or don't you recognise it?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
@The Blacksmith

I speak as a proud Victorian, but is that all you've got !!!

We kept our trams mostly by accident and due to a certain Sir Robert Risson, or we would have gone the same way as most large cities of the English speak world.

When it comes to rail NSW has it all over us Vics. Their system is much more complex and larger than ours. And despite what you hear in the media and Newcastle notwithstanding, their planning of the Rail network and the personnel they are hiring to run it, leaves us for dust. More to the point they have a Minister in Gladys Berejiklian who is passionate about her portfolio, Terry Mulder gave me the impression he just does not care and Jacinta Allen, well I have not seen or heard much from her.

mejhammers1
It's way too early to be commenting one way or the other regards Victorian PT Minister Jacinta Allen.

However as you are comparing NSW state wide rail system to Victoria's, if I were a long distance rail commuter, which makes up the majority of each systems pax base, I'd be comparing travel times with like distance and a good example is a comparison...Newcastle to (Sydney) Central with Bendigo to (Melbourne) Southern Cross.

The fastest peak train from Newcastle to Sydney is scheduled to take over 150 mins from Hamilton without adding the bus leg to Newcastle City.

The fastest Bendigo to Melbourne (Southern Cross) train takes under 100 mins.

The main issue for pax travelling en-mass is the fastest journey from Point A to Point B.

Without comparing short distance services, Victoria trumps NSW hands down in every case on every medium distance line.


Mike.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
It's way too early to be commenting one way or the other regards Victorian PT Minister Jacinta Allen.

However as you are comparing NSW state wide rail system to Victoria's, if I were a long distance rail commuter, which makes up the majority of each systems pax base, I'd be comparing travel times with like distance and a good example is a comparison...Newcastle to (Sydney) Central with Bendigo to (Melbourne) Southern Cross.

The fastest peak train from Newcastle to Sydney is scheduled to take over 150 mins from Hamilton without adding the bus leg to Newcastle City.

The fastest Bendigo to Melbourne (Southern Cross) train takes under 100 mins.

The main issue for pax travelling en-mass is the fastest journey from Point A to Point B.

Without comparing short distance services, Victoria trumps NSW hands down in every case on every medium distance line.


Mike.
The Vinelander
Sydney to Newcaslte has more stops compare to Bendigo to Melbourne  and which the fast train has only 7 stops compare to Newcaslte to Sydney has 15 stops.

..................................................Melbourne to Bendigo............ Sydney to Newcastle

peak fare cost.................................$28.80................................$8.30
off peak fares..................................$20.16...............................$5.81
seats per train in peak per train  .........184 - 445.......................... about 800
am peak times..............................touch off before 9am  ..................06:00 - 07:15
pm peak times...........................zone 1 touch on 4pm and 6pm..........16:00 - 18:30
number of weekdays trains to the city
Monday to Firday.....................................20...................................40 to 42
services hours to the city.....................5.33 to 20.38.......................2.31 to 23.35
services hours from the city.........06:13 to 22:22(firday 23:49).............3.45 to 1.45am (next day)

I have a question.
Two people on the peak Bendigo train - one of them is on full fare and another one has a concession card and has a set income (which can't afford to pay up a font for their transport fares).

Person on full fare only pays $12.42 for single day travel (when buying a MYKI pass)

But person on concession - on the same trains has paid $28.80 for the day - how is this fair and reasonable?

In Syndey - person on the same train as example above (on the peak train) they pay the following under Opal smart card system:
Full fare :$8.30
Concession: $4.15
Gold Senior/Pensioner: $2.50

Like to make a point - it likely in Melbourne - a person is more lilkely to drive thier cars to work compare to person in Sydney -

Note - I misread the article. - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-03/two-in-three-australians-drive-to-work-study-of-commuting-habit/5233950
  michaelgreenhill Administrator That's Numberwang!

Location: Melbourne
Like to make a point - there is more car on the roads in Melbourne compare to Sydney in peak hour
melbtrip
Wanna back that up with a source?
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Wanna back that up with a source?
michaelgreenhill
Note - I misread the article. - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-03/two-in-three-australia...
Like to make a point - it likely in Melbourne - a person is more lilkely to drive thier cars to work compare to person in Sydney -

  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
I have a question.
Two people on the peak Bendigo train - one of them is on full fare and another one has a concession card and has a set income (which can't afford to pay up a font for their transport fares).

Person on full fare only pays $12.42 for single day travel (when buying a MYKI pass)

But person on concession - on the same trains has paid $28.80 for the day - how is this fair and reasonable?
melbtrip
I can't make head nor tail of that. What has being on a concession got to do with a set income and not able to pay up font (sic) for their transport fees?

Both are required to pay for the trip with a Myki card, and the concession holder should have a concession Myki, in which case they pay the concession fare.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I can't make head nor tail of that. What has being on a concession got to do with a set income and not able to pay up font (sic) for their transport fees?

Both are required to pay for the trip with a Myki card, and the concession holder should have a concession Myki, in which case they pay the concession fare.
TheBlacksmith
I think the point that @melbtrip is making is that the daily rate for a full fare myki pass is cheaper than the daily concession myki money fare.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

It's way too early to be commenting one way or the other regards Victorian PT Minister Jacinta Allen.

However as you are comparing NSW state wide rail system to Victoria's, if I were a long distance rail commuter, which makes up the majority of each systems pax base, I'd be comparing travel times with like distance and a good example is a comparison...Newcastle to (Sydney) Central with Bendigo to (Melbourne) Southern Cross.

The fastest peak train from Newcastle to Sydney is scheduled to take over 150 mins from Hamilton without adding the bus leg to Newcastle City.

The fastest Bendigo to Melbourne (Southern Cross) train takes under 100 mins.

The main issue for pax travelling en-mass is the fastest journey from Point A to Point B.

Without comparing short distance services, Victoria trumps NSW hands down in every case on every medium distance line.


Mike.
The Vinelander
@ The Vinelander

I do concede it is early to comment about Ms Allen and I was not criticising her performance, I was just noting that she has been in the job for 6 months now and I have not seen much of her. In contrast to Gladys Berejiklian who from day 1 sourced the best talent to fix NSW's Train system. For such an important portfolio she should be in your face so to speak!!!

I was rather looking at the whole picture than one journey you have cherry picked. NSW is putting a plan together to Modernise the state's railways which includes improving Sydney's Rail network, to help with chronic congestion on Sydney's roads. There does not seem to be such a plan except the Metro Rail most of which will not come to fruition. The fact that Melbourne to Bendigo takes 100 Mins, good for them I am happy for them!! But that is not going to help capacity constraints and overcrowding in the South Eastern, Western and Northern Suburbs. They do large orders of custom built modern trains fit for purpose, we in Vic do tiny orders of cheap off the shelf base models which are barely fit for purpose on the Metro system. NSW are expanding the system in Growth corridors, we in Vic apart from the Regional Rail Link extend electrification a few stops. etc. etc.

Michael
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
I think the point that @melbtrip is making is that the daily rate for a full fare myki pass is cheaper than the daily concession myki money fare.
railblogger
The Bendigo service is a V/Line service, you pay for the distance, not the time. So you are not paying for a 'daily' anything.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
The Bendigo service is a V/Line service, you pay for the distance, not the time. So you are not paying for a 'daily' anything.
TheBlacksmith
MYKI based on time and zones fares like old metcards was - there no more V/Line fares for Bendigo to Melbourne service any more

Under myki - it does not matter what myki applied services you use - it still works out the same cost.

Touch on at Bendigo and touch off at Southern Cross - you will be charged a 13 myki zones.

If you really want to - touch on at Bendigo and drive to southern Cross and touch off at Southern Cross and still charge you a MYKI zone 13 fare - even you do not use PT for the trip.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
@TheBlacksmith @melbtrip is right. When myki was implemented in the V/Line commuter areas, these areas were switched to a zone-based system, as the V/Line network map shows.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

I was rather looking at the whole picture than one journey you have cherry picked. NSW is putting a plan together to Modernise the state's railways which includes improving Sydney's Rail network, to help with chronic congestion on Sydney's roads. There does not seem to be such a plan except the Metro Rail most of which will not come to fruition. The fact that Melbourne to Bendigo takes 100 Mins, good for them I am happy for them!! But that is not going to help capacity constraints and overcrowding in the South Eastern, Western and Northern Suburbs. They do large orders of custom built modern trains fit for purpose, we in Vic do tiny orders of cheap off the shelf base models which are barely fit for purpose on the Metro system. NSW are expanding the system in Growth corridors, we in Vic apart from the Regional Rail Link extend electrification a few stops. etc. etc.

Michael
mejhammers1

Michael, as you brought up inter-urban passenger services in your discussion, I have another reply for another (Victorian) Inter-urban line.

I often travel home from work on the fastest scheduled passenger train in Australia Exclamation

That is the 16:38 Melbourne to Ballarat/Wendouree (flagship) which averages over 125 KPH from Footscray to Ballan. Moreover, the train has to gain 500 meters in elevation whilst maintaining the role as Australia's fastest scheduled passenger train.

Melbourne's urban rail PT may not be perfect as you have pointed out....however with the change of government a few months ago, things are likely to change for the better.

I don't use much of Melbourne's PT as I'm almost exclusively a V/Line passenger. I'm not being a snob about it...it's just a fact of life.

Mike.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Michael, as you brought up inter-urban passenger services in your discussion, I have another reply for another (Victorian) Inter-urban line.

I often travel home from work on the fastest scheduled passenger train in Australia Exclamation

That is the 16:38 Melbourne to Ballarat/Wendouree (flagship) which averages over 125 KPH from Footscray to Ballan. Moreover, the train has to gain 500 meters in elevation whilst maintaining the role as Australia's fastest scheduled passenger train.

Melbourne's urban rail PT may not be perfect as you have pointed out....however with the change of government a few months ago, things are likely to change for the better.

I don't use much of Melbourne's PT as I'm almost exclusively a V/Line passenger. I'm not being a snob about it...it's just a fact of life.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Meh, Ballarat Line averages over 125 Kph from Footscray to Ballan, so what! The V/Line system carries 14 Million a Year, Melbourne Metro 215 Million. Melbourne's Rail PT is not just not perfect, it is below par on what a major commuter network should be. It remains to be seen if things are likely to change for the better, here in Victoria stay the same way as it always has been big talk and token action.

Mr Andrews and Ms Allen will need to do a lot to convince me!!!

Michael
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
Melbourne's Rail PT is not just not perfect, it is below par on what a major commuter network should be. It remains to be seen if things are likely to change for the better, here in Victoria stay the same way as it always has been big talk and token action.
mejhammers1
You're not wrong there, I was appalled at the state of the tracks and other infrastructure when I was in Melbourne a few months back for the tennis, rusting OHW supports, weeds growing through ballast AT RICHMOND (you'd expect the tracks so close to the city would be close to perfect).

Friends of mine from Melbourne are always stating that the quality of the infrastructure in Sydney exceeds that of Melbourne by an order of magnitude.

I suppose that is what happens when you have a gum'mint that is prepared to actually invest in rail maintenance, in a state which still has a corporate memory that the Granville derailment (killing 83 people) was caused purely because of a gross maintenance deficiency.

Dave
  woodford Chief Commissioner

You're not wrong there, I was appalled at the state of the tracks and other infrastructure when I was in Melbourne a few months back for the tennis, rusting OHW supports, weeds growing through ballast AT RICHMOND (you'd expect the tracks so close to the city would be close to perfect).

Friends of mine from Melbourne are always stating that the quality of the infrastructure in Sydney exceeds that of Melbourne by an order of magnitude.

I suppose that is what happens when you have a gum'mint that is prepared to actually invest in rail maintenance, in a state which still has a corporate memory that the Granville derailment (killing 83 people) was caused purely because of a gross maintenance deficiency.

Dave
thadocta
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Lets get some perspective in here.

Sydney metro area has basicly 4 main pass lines,

Melbourne metro area has 10 counting the tracks beyond Camberwell as a single destination (not 3).
The separate desitinanations of the network being Werribee,Melton, Watergardens, Craigeburn, Upfielfd, Epping, Hurstbridge, Ringwood group (Lilydale, Belgave, Alamein), Glen Waverly, Pakenham, Frankston and Sandrinham, Well OK thats 12. All these have mostly seperate main lines.

I do not know what the track distance is but I would not be surprised if Melbournes Pass network was double sydneys length.

As well as that Melbourne also has THE most extensive Tram system in the world consisting of 250 kilometres of track, nearly 500 trams,operating on 25 routes covering over 1700 tram stops.

Melbournes population is also slightly less (4 million as opposed to sydneys 4.4 million) so Melbourne has a great deal more to look after with a slightly smaller population base. And going be many Railpage posts sadly almost NONE of which wish to pay for upgrades to the network................ So There!!!!! Wink, Wink.

woodford

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