50 level crossings to be removed

 
  ngarner Train Controller

Location: Seville
Of course with no scope for duplication between the two rebuilt stations... hopeless!
712M
No scope for duplication as part of the crossing removal but "The project also lays the groundwork for further line upgrades, including the duplication of sections of the Lilydale line and a potential new station between Mooroolbark and Lilydale" - taken straight from LXRA update.

How much influence did the discussion here have on this one? Probably wish full thinking to consider our discussion had much to do with it but the design for Lilydale certainly resembles the most preferred option discussed in this thread.

Neil

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  LeroyW Junior Train Controller

Location: Awaiting MM2
How much influence did the discussion here have on this one? Probably wish full thinking to consider our discussion had much to do with it but the design for Lilydale certainly resembles the most preferred option discussed in this thread.

Neil
ngarner
Certainly resembles Mernda Laughing, the most similar grade separated crossing on the network (terminal station, major road, stabling beyond the terminus etc.)
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

How much influence did the discussion here have on this one? Probably wish full thinking to consider our discussion had much to do with it but the design for Lilydale certainly resembles the most preferred option discussed in this thread.

Neil
ngarner

The discussion on here didn't have much to do with it, they had basically decided what the design would be ages ago (and it wasn't really much of a secret).  Just hadn't been announced officially.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Are they going to attempt to ease the curve (currently restricted to 40 km/h) at the up end of Mooroolbark? The CAD model suggests the skyrail curve isn't as sharp, but it also lacks the crossover which would make it impossible to terminate trains there, so if the government does cut costs and leaves the line as single track, unlike Keon Park to South Morang to Mernda which was done at the drop of a hat, they would be killing all Mooroolbark-bound services at Ringwood instead, leaving the trains running twice an hour all day with no alternative (or three times an hour if lucky e.g. weekend timetable). That multi-storey carpark also looks like it would cost more than the level crossing project itself. Of course, the carpark wouldn't need to house 1000 cars if Mooroolbark actually had proper bus services.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
You would think for 4km worth of track between the stations, it would be easy enough for the LXRA to just do the duplication now and get it over and done with.

Hopefully there are some feedback sessions and the LXRA is made to give more of a commitment to duplicating. The Altona loop got 800m extra duplication when their residents complained.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
You would think for 4km worth of track between the stations, it would be easy enough for the LXRA to just do the duplication now and get it over and done with.

Hopefully there are some feedback sessions and the LXRA is made to give more of a commitment to duplicating. The Altona loop got 800m extra duplication when their residents complained.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
You would think for 4km worth of track between the stations, it would be easy enough for the LXRA to just do the duplication now and get it over and done with.

Hopefully there are some feedback sessions and the LXRA is made to give more of a commitment to duplicating. The Altona loop got 800m extra duplication when their residents complained.
TOQ-1
It all depends on $$
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Trapped in a meeting with Rhonda and Karsten
Feds are happy to cough up the squillions it'll cost for a 450-space multi-deck carpark at Mooroolbark. No money for infrastructure that would improve train running times and service frequency though. No prizes for guessing why...
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

Headstocks are now being placed on top of the piers at Reservoir, starting near the Southern end.

Just to the naked eye, they didn't look particularly high - certainly not as high as the ones at Mernda and Hawkstowe. Presumably there will be enough clearance for whatever trucks are going underneath on High St... Confused
LeroyW

According the LXRA website, clearance above the road at Reservoir will be 5.4m.  Height limit for road vehicles in Vic is 4.3m (I think can be slightly higher under certain special circumstances).
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Headstocks are now being placed on top of the piers at Reservoir, starting near the Southern end.

Just to the naked eye, they didn't look particularly high - certainly not as high as the ones at Mernda and Hawkstowe. Presumably there will be enough clearance for whatever trucks are going underneath on High St... Confused

According the LXRA website, clearance above the road at Reservoir will be 5.4m.  Height limit for road vehicles in Vic is 4.3m (I think can be slightly higher under certain special circumstances).
Adogs
I know the Wodonga Rail Bypass overpass over the Lincoln Causeway has a 7.5 metre clearance (that accommodates most over dimension truck movements)
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

Headstocks are now being placed on top of the piers at Reservoir, starting near the Southern end.

Just to the naked eye, they didn't look particularly high - certainly not as high as the ones at Mernda and Hawkstowe. Presumably there will be enough clearance for whatever trucks are going underneath on High St... Confused

According the LXRA website, clearance above the road at Reservoir will be 5.4m.  Height limit for road vehicles in Vic is 4.3m (I think can be slightly higher under certain special circumstances).
I know the Wodonga Rail Bypass overpass over the Lincoln Causeway has a 7.5 metre clearance (that accommodates most over dimension truck movements)
Nightfire

Presumably there won't be any super over-dimensioned trucks through Cheddar Rd (or any other local suburban streets).

Another thought occurs though - the clearance over the road of the new station will actually be higher than the overhead wires are above the road at present, won't it?  I can't remember how many metres above the road level the wires are at a level crossing.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
You would think for 4km worth of track between the stations, it would be easy enough for the LXRA to just do the duplication now and get it over and done with.

Hopefully there are some feedback sessions and the LXRA is made to give more of a commitment to duplicating. The Altona loop got 800m extra duplication when their residents complained.
TOQ-1
The LXRA is exactly that - it removes level crossings.  It does not (usually) duplicate track between stations.

In case not mentioned here already, the information sessions are scheduled as follows:

MooroolbarkWhen: Thursday 22 August, 6:00pm to 8:00pm
Where: Manchester Primary School, Monomeith Street, Mooroolbark
LilydaleWhen: Saturday 24 August, 10:00am to 12 noon
Where: Lilydale Primary School, Castella Street, Lilydale


According to the last design for Lilydale, the two tracks through the new station seem to converge into one beyond the station.  This track descends to ground level, goes past the existing station, then connects to the existing stabling yard.  It also appears that the existing car parks are to be retained, which would mean some kind of pedestrian access across the highway to the new station.  Unlike Mooroolbark, there seems to be no provision for additional car parking, which is sorely needed at Lilydale.

It also mentions that the existing bus terminal would be relocated, but does not say where to.  Obviously, any new terminal would also need pedestrian access to the new station.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

There appear to be bus bays on the western-side, although the artist's impression shows a bus departing the eastern-side (it may have 'gone round the block' after departing a western-side bay). It's hard to to tell what the 'awning' is over the existing bus bays. Expanded car park, public open space or some sort of drawing error?
  Adogs Chief Train Controller


It also mentions that the existing bus terminal would be relocated, but does not say where to.  Obviously, any new terminal would also need pedestrian access to the new station.
Lad_Porter

I'm assuming they'll put pedestrian lights across to the exisiting carpark on the north side of the highway, although it'd be better if they could have pedestrian access via the bridge (not sure if that's both possible and safe with the current design).

Re the Bus station - I'm pretty sure someone said a while back they were building space for bays all the way between highway and John St along west side of the new station.
  Rossco T Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria

It also mentions that the existing bus terminal would be relocated, but does not say where to.  Obviously, any new terminal would also need pedestrian access to the new station.
I'm assuming they'll put pedestrian lights across to the exisiting carpark on the north side of the highway, although it'd be better if they could have pedestrian access via the bridge (not sure if that's both possible and safe with the current design).

Re the Bus station - I'm pretty sure someone said a while back they were building space for bays all the way between highway and John St along west side of the new station.
Adogs
Maybe the existing bus interchange on the north side of the highway could become more carparking?

Ross
  ngarner Train Controller

Location: Seville
You would think for 4km worth of track between the stations, it would be easy enough for the LXRA to just do the duplication now and get it over and done with.

Hopefully there are some feedback sessions and the LXRA is made to give more of a commitment to duplicating. The Altona loop got 800m extra duplication when their residents complained.
The LXRA is exactly that - it removes level crossings.  It does not (usually) duplicate track between stations.

In case not mentioned here already, the information sessions are scheduled as follows:

MooroolbarkWhen: Thursday 22 August, 6:00pm to 8:00pm
Where: Manchester Primary School, Monomeith Street, Mooroolbark
LilydaleWhen: Saturday 24 August, 10:00am to 12 noon
Where: Lilydale Primary School, Castella Street, Lilydale


According to the last design for Lilydale, the two tracks through the new station seem to converge into one beyond the station.  This track descends to ground level, goes past the existing station, then connects to the existing stabling yard.  It also appears that the existing car parks are to be retained, which would mean some kind of pedestrian access across the highway to the new station.  Unlike Mooroolbark, there seems to be no provision for additional car parking, which is sorely needed at Lilydale.

It also mentions that the existing bus terminal would be relocated, but does not say where to.  Obviously, any new terminal would also need pedestrian access to the new station.
Lad_Porter
The pictures that are available show a narrowing of the platform at the northern end as it goes over the highway with what  could be taken as the top of a stairway and a lift shaft. If this is followed through with then there will be an access to the platform from the car park, as has been discussed on this forum. The greyed out patch over the existing bus terminal is a very poor attempt to blank it out of the picture. What they replace it with is not obvious but parking would make sense.
There are traffic lights shown where the existing car park entry is which sort of defeats the purpose of removing the crossing but will be highly necessary once the crossing ceases to provide opportunities to turn in or out of the highway at that point.
The John St roundabout also has disappeared from the pictures, through more rather poor photo-shopping. Whether this actually happens will be interesting, otherwise they're almost definitely going to have to put traffic lights in on both sides of the station in John St.

Neil
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
There are references above to "the car park", but there are actually two car parks - one on the western side, the other on the east.  At present these are not interconnected, and each has its own entrance, on either side of the track.  One or the other is easier to get into, depending on which direction you are coming from.  Ideally, the two parking areas should be connected, and the western one should be extended to Beresford Road, to allow access from that end.  The eastern one could probably be rationalised, so as to accommodate more cars.  Conversion of the existing bus terminal would also be useful, as suggested.
  ngarner Train Controller

Location: Seville
There are references above to "the car park", but there are actually two car parks - one on the western side, the other on the east.  At present these are not interconnected, and each has its own entrance, on either side of the track.  One or the other is easier to get into, depending on which direction you are coming from.  Ideally, the two parking areas should be connected, and the western one should be extended to Beresford Road, to allow access from that end.  The eastern one could probably be rationalised, so as to accommodate more cars.  Conversion of the existing bus terminal would also be useful, as suggested.
Lad_Porter
Sorry, you're right, of course. I rarely use the west one so tend to forget to refer to it, even though it is better made than the eastern one so preferable to park in, apart from the fact that it's harder to get out of in the afternoon!
We can hope LXRA make some connection between the two parking areas, as you say, adjacent to the highway as long as it's not to the detriment of passengers trying to access the station.
A Beresford Rd entry would be brilliant to make entering and leaving easier; just as long as it doesn't become a rat run to get from the Highway to Beresford Rd, or vice versa.

Neil
  Madjikthise Assistant Commissioner

There are references above to "the car park", but there are actually two car parks - one on the western side, the other on the east.  At present these are not interconnected, and each has its own entrance, on either side of the track.  One or the other is easier to get into, depending on which direction you are coming from.  Ideally, the two parking areas should be connected, and the western one should be extended to Beresford Road, to allow access from that end.  The eastern one could probably be rationalised, so as to accommodate more cars.  Conversion of the existing bus terminal would also be useful, as suggested.
Sorry, you're right, of course. I rarely use the west one so tend to forget to refer to it, even though it is better made than the eastern one so preferable to park in, apart from the fact that it's harder to get out of in the afternoon!
We can hope LXRA make some connection between the two parking areas, as you say, adjacent to the highway as long as it's not to the detriment of passengers trying to access the station.
A Beresford Rd entry would be brilliant to make entering and leaving easier; just as long as it doesn't become a rat run to get from the Highway to Beresford Rd, or vice versa.

Neil
ngarner
Oh it will definitely become that. Traffic always builds up to get out of Cave Hill Rd.
I could be wrong but I don't think there will be a link between the two car parks as the tracks will still be there descending into the sidings.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
There are references above to "the car park", but there are actually two car parks - one on the western side, the other on the east.  At present these are not interconnected, and each has its own entrance, on either side of the track.  One or the other is easier to get into, depending on which direction you are coming from.  Ideally, the two parking areas should be connected, and the western one should be extended to Beresford Road, to allow access from that end.  The eastern one could probably be rationalised, so as to accommodate more cars.  Conversion of the existing bus terminal would also be useful, as suggested.
Sorry, you're right, of course. I rarely use the west one so tend to forget to refer to it, even though it is better made than the eastern one so preferable to park in, apart from the fact that it's harder to get out of in the afternoon!
We can hope LXRA make some connection between the two parking areas, as you say, adjacent to the highway as long as it's not to the detriment of passengers trying to access the station.
A Beresford Rd entry would be brilliant to make entering and leaving easier; just as long as it doesn't become a rat run to get from the Highway to Beresford Rd, or vice versa.

Neil
ngarner
A rat run is unlikely.  To go north, you would have to first enter the service road, to go south you would have the same difficulty getting out.  In both directions you would have to go at a slow speed to negotiate the parked cars and other obstructions, and would have to be aware of genuine parkers arriving or leaving.  Why bother, when there is a perfectly good Cave Hill Road nearby?

The trick with getting out of the western car park is to time it (if you can) to when a train is departing, even if it means a wait of a few minutes.  Once the lights and booms are operating (or shortly afterwards in some cases!) all road traffic stops.  There is a Keep Clear zone on the road, and if you are lucky you can take advantage of it - either edge into it if going east, or drive across it if going west.

At the far end of the west carpark there is a locked compound for employees' cars, and for other stuff.  I wonder if this will be moved or split? - Train drivers will need to be parked near the stabling, but station staff would now have a hike.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
If anyone is interested in attending the information sessions for the Mooroolbark or Lilydale crossing removals, the dates as previously mentioned, both on the LXRA website and on here, are apparently incorrect.  Originally, the LXRA website said:

"MooroolbarkWhen: Thursday 22 August, 6:00pm to 8:00pm
Where: Manchester Primary School, Monomeith Street, Mooroolbark
LilydaleWhen: Saturday 24 August, 10:00am to 12 noon
Where: Lilydale Primary School, Castella Street, Lilydale"

As a result of different dates, times and places being published in the local paper, I queried it with LXRA, and have received two emails from them in response.  The first one confirmed that the dates and places above were correct;  the second one said that the dates and places published in the paper were correct:


"We apologise for the incorrect information you were provided with yesterday.
The correct information for the drop in session is:
Thursday 22 August, 6pm to 8pm
Lilydale Primary School
61-63 Castella Street, Lilydale
Saturday 24 August, 10am to 12pm
Manchester Primary School
55 Highway Drive, Mooroolbark
Access via Monomeith Street
If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us on 1800 150 105 or via contact@levelcrossings.vic.gov.au
Kind regards,
The SEPA Team
Level Crossing Removal Project
T: 1800 105 105 E: contact@levelcrossings.vic.gov.au
[b][color=#c20000][font=Calibri]levelcrossings.vic.gov.au"[/font][/color][/b]


If they can't even get this aspect of the project right, you would have to wonder about the actual work, whenever it commences.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Trapped in a meeting with Rhonda and Karsten
Sounds like they're taking the Beware Of The Leopard approach to community consultation...
  tayser Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Clyde Road to go under the existing rail grade.
https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/getting-on-and-removing-the-clyde-road-level-crossing/

The Andrews Labor Government is removing the dangerous and congested Clyde Road level crossing in Berwick by building a road underpass beneath the Pakenham line, improving safety and easing congestion.
Around 22,000 vehicles use the crossing every day, with the boom gates down for around a third of the two-hour morning peak, delaying people travelling to and from the Princes and Monash freeways.
Detailed engineering assessments and site investigations identified a road underpass is the best design to remove the level crossing – minimising disruption for 20,000 rail passengers each day and creating opportunities to improve walking and cycling.
Other designs would take up to a year longer to complete, would require compulsory acquisition of private properties and significant underground service relocation, including the Longford gas main.
A road underpass also means that Berwick Station won’t need to be knocked down, which would cause further disruption for passengers and allows for the Commonwealth Government to deliver its commuter car parking and road upgrade commitments.
The Labor Government will work cooperatively with the Commonwealth to ensure that there is a coordinated approach to the delivery of the projects to get the best outcome for the community.
Other designs would also impact commuters by shutting the Pakenham line between Pakenham and Dandenong for up to two months. Construction will start next year, and the level crossing will be gone by 2022.
Meanwhile, further along the Pakenham line, the fast-tracked removal of the dangerous and congested level crossing at Cardinia Road in Pakenham is a step closer with work set to begin later this year.
An alliance of Fulton Hogan and Metro Trains Melbourne has been awarded the $80 million contract to deliver the project.
Nine level crossings on the Pakenham line have already been removed, with eight more earmarked for removal.



  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Something does not quite make sense here.  Among the valid arguments against road under rail at Lilydale are that there would be an impact on underground services, requiring extensive excavations, and that the road would have to be closed during construction.  Berwick is of course not Lilydale, but wouldn't the same constraints be applicable?

The blurb for Berwick says, in part,

"Other designs would take up to a year longer to complete, would require compulsory acquisition of private properties and significant underground service relocation, including the Longford gas main."

"Other designs" means designs other than road under rail.  Does not road under rail also imply significant underground service relocation, possibly including the Longford gas main?
  ngarner Train Controller

Location: Seville
Something does not quite make sense here.  Among the valid arguments against road under rail at Lilydale are that there would be an impact on underground services, requiring extensive excavations, and that the road would have to be closed during construction.  Berwick is of course not Lilydale, but wouldn't the same constraints be applicable?

The blurb for Berwick says, in part,

"Other designs would take up to a year longer to complete, would require compulsory acquisition of private properties and significant underground service relocation, including the Longford gas main."

"Other designs" means designs other than road under rail.  Does not road under rail also imply significant underground service relocation, possibly including the Longford gas main?
Lad_Porter
The impression the pictures give me is that the rail line is elevated on both the approaches, suggesting more of a hybrid, but other than that I agree with you questioning their arguments. If the Longford gas line is near there going own is going to impact it one way or another.

Neil

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