Melbourne Metro Rail Project Revived

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 16 Feb 2015 17:54
  3088D Station Staff

There's a subway line in central Berlin that has taken almost two decades to build a few km worth, because Berlin sits on a large amount of swampy land and it's essentially tunneling through soup that collapses back in on itself.  Plus the government insisted that one of the stations be building directly under the river, which has caused all sorts of problems - basically the groundwater has to be kept frozen so they can keep building.
Adogs

The first two castles sank into the swamp. The third one stayed up...

What they've done in Berlin sounds similar to what has been done in New York for the East Side Access project, where engineers had to freeze the soil. Some details can be seen here.

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  Adogs Chief Train Controller

There's a subway line in central Berlin that has taken almost two decades to build a few km worth, because Berlin sits on a large amount of swampy land and it's essentially tunneling through soup that collapses back in on itself.  Plus the government insisted that one of the stations be building directly under the river, which has caused all sorts of problems - basically the groundwater has to be kept frozen so they can keep building.

The first two castles sank into the swamp. The third one stayed up...

What they've done in Berlin sounds similar to what has been done in New York for the East Side Access project, where engineers had to freeze the soil. Some details can be seen here.
3088D

You mean the Stadtschloss (City Castle/Palace)?  That is directly adjacent to the Museumsinsel station I was referring to.  It was damaged in WW2 then demolished by the Communists afterwards, but has now almost been rebuilt.  I believe it's reopening next year.

There are a lot of interesting construction stories from Berlin to do with the unstable ground.
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
Metro Tunnels latest newsletter (first one for almost a year) says that TBM Meg has been launched towards South Kensington but there's nothing anywhere else that I've seen to confirm that.

Newsletter

Neil
ngarner
The newsletter must have been written in anticipation of a launch as the latest news on the web site indicates that Meg will be launched "soon" although the timeline allows for anytime up to mid/late November.

TBM

Neil  
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Certainly some interesting comments and hearsay in the Twitter thread.  Sounds like structural steel contaminated with lead paint is an issue:


From February:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/workers-exposed-to-highly-toxic-lead-on-major-victorian-projects-20190212-p50x7k.html
Carnot


The worst thing you can do is cancel a project once it has been started. If it goes over budget then so be it but if you cancel it then you end up with no infrastrucuture or a half built piece of infrastrucutre that can make things worse. So keep building and ignore the people who keep bringing up these numbers as in the end you will end up with a much needed piece of infrastrucuture that will more then make up for any over run in cost.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

The worst thing you can do is cancel a project once it has been started. If it goes over budget then so be it but if you cancel it then you end up with no infrastrucuture or a half built piece of infrastrucutre that can make things worse. So keep building and ignore the people who keep bringing up these numbers as in the end you will end up with a much needed piece of infrastrucuture that will more then make up for any over run in cost.
simstrain
Yup like how we wasted money on the Doncaster rail tunnel connection to the Clifton hill group to the Eastern Freeway median that got to fill in straight after. Pretty sad that project started construction and got cancelled just like that.
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
Well, Meg the TBM is already about 50 metres on its (her?)way to South Kensington. Press release today, see here Meg. Means that it was launched about 5 days ago with no fanfare and will probably arrive at the TBM retrieval shaft in the first few days of February.

Neil
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
And with Meg and Joan on their ways, it looks like we are going to be treated to some good progress photos from here on.

  NR61 Station Staff

4 months late? Could be worse.. Victoria could've been ruled by the Libs and cancel all public transport projects because muh socialism.
  CraigieburnLineUser Station Master

4 months late? Could be worse.. Victoria could've been ruled by the Libs and cancel all public transport projects because muh socialism.
NR61
In The Age yesterday the head of RPV was saying about reducing the vibrations by staggering the launches, and that they wanted to get intel on how it would go under residential areas in Parkville
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
There are numerous times I've read comments about journalists who don't have much of a clue about the topic they're writing about; Andrew Lund being one of the exceptions. This is another one of those Meg starts digging. Writer says that Meg is "expected to have made her way Kensington by August next year to form the western entrance". Meg should be at Kensington by February, with Joan getting there nearly a month earlier. Returned to North Melbourne the pair should be at Parkville just over three months after their re-launch, say May for Meg. Based on this report it seems that Metro expect the pair to be at State Library in August 2020.
With the facts provided to the reporter, even misreported, those who know what is being discussed can actually glean what the original information probably was.

Neil

Edit: Metro's website is saying that the two TBMs for the eastern tunnels are due this month; deliveries to the Domain site are expected 8th, 13th and 22nd
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
This weekend heavy lift cranes will be installing parts of the new William St bridge between Chapel St and Toorak Rd.  Trains will be replaced by buses from early Saturday morning and last train Sunday between Moorabbin - Flinders St and Westall - Flinders St as additional works to upgrade infrastructure are taking place between Malvern - Richmond.  I've also noticed that all platforms from Caulfield - Hawksburn have been marked with survey marks and indications of underground services - looks like all of them will eventually have their platforms levelled and raised. Future shutdowns are taking place between Moorabbin - Flinders St and Westall - Flinders St from Friday night 22 Nov. - last train Sunday 24 Nov. Additional shutdowns are between Caulfield - Flinders St from 8.45pm each night from Monday 25 Nov. - Thursday 28. Nov.

There is an amount of work taking place in this corridor. I've noticed civil works for signalling taking place along Dandenong Rd, and foundations for what I think is a new signal gantry or overheads have been constructed just before the Chapel St bridge.

Details on the works for this weekend can be found here: https://metrotunnel.vic.gov.au/about-the-project/news/november-weekend-works
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
The worst thing you can do is cancel a project once it has been started. If it goes over budget then so be it but if you cancel it then you end up with no infrastrucuture or a half built piece of infrastrucutre that can make things worse. So keep building and ignore the people who keep bringing up these numbers as in the end you will end up with a much needed piece of infrastrucuture that will more then make up for any over run in cost.
simstrain
Helps when you read the article...


It is unclear if this has contributed to the project's $2 billion blowout so far - a cost to be worn by the consortium Cross Yarra Partnership (CYP), led by Lendlease, John Holland Group and Bouygues Construction Australia.

My heart weeps.
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Consonant with the Age’s report some months ago that the AG’s early works audit was just the tip of the iceberg. There are plenty of insiders saying there’s serious strife – I’d say it’s more than a beat up.

The state won’t wear the full cost, but you can bet the consortium will connive their way into being spared payment for at least some of it.
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
Still frustrated that the Monash widening down Pakenham way can blow out by some $500million; state & federal governments throw the money at it without thinking; it gets a write-up in the media and then forgotten about. Some cost over-run in the early stages to reduce problems and costs down the track get a huge focus from the media who continue to push the story when the cost "over-run" definitely incurred so far is still less than $100 million. Not to mention another $516 million can be spend on widening 4km of the Metropolitan Ring Road and most accept it as 'good value'. Seriously? Shocked

Neil
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
Boy, this thread has died off! I'm inclined to blame the comms people at Metro/LXRP/Regional rail as there appears to be a whole lot of silence coming out of all three of these bodies platforms, compared to a year ago when there were constant updates, even being able to track the delivery of the first TBM. Now it appears that the third TBM has been shipped and delivered to the Domain site and the fourth is either on the docks now or about to be with no promotion of them at all.
The small road header that was at La Trobe street earlier this year is now at work from the Federation Square site and a large one is going into the City square site in the next week or so. One of the three at State Library is leaving, whether it is the one going into the city square site or no longer required is not clear.
Work on the State Library platform is about to commence so they must have dug out enough area to do that.
The two TBMs out of North Melbourne aren't getting to South Kensington until, at least, February now; presumably, because of the holiday shut down. Possibly they aren't working as fast as they could as the retrieval shaft is still not ready for them, unlike at South Yarra.

The station boxes at North and, it appears, Parkville have reached their final depth as has the northern box at Domain.
For all the lack of updates, it's good to see that things are progressing

Neil
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Probably indicates a change in the press team, or a directive from a minister who was embarrassed by the five or so months of delays to tunnelling (despite announcing the project would finish a year earlier than the original plans several years before being in a position to make such a claim).
  Obzerva Station Master

Location: #6 / Glen Waverley line
Does anyone have knowledge or thoughts on when the current North Melbourne station is being renamed?
I would have thought it would be done by now to get everyone used to the new name before a new North Melbourne is opened.
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller

@Obzerva

I would suspect this might be done when the master timetable update is released early next year. That would give a few years to get everyone use to it.

If not, there is going to be more than a few timetable updates between 2020 and 2025.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
There's a subway line in central Berlin that has taken almost two decades to build a few km worth, because Berlin sits on a large amount of swampy land and it's essentially tunneling through soup that collapses back in on itself.  Plus the government insisted that one of the stations be building directly under the river, which has caused all sorts of problems - basically the groundwater has to be kept frozen so they can keep building.
Adogs
That would be U5 between Alexanderplatz and Brandenburger Tor to link the short U55 to Berlin Hauptbahnhof

The poor fiscal position of the State of Berlin Is another thing that was/Is causing delays.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U5_(Berlin_U-Bahn)
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

The carp is hitting the fan as the TBMs grind to a halt:
  chomper Junior Train Controller

This is nothing but a ransom demand from the consortium building the project. They've realised there won't be enough cream on top because they underestimated their costs and are now crying blue murder demanding more money or else. There is profit, just not enough to sate their greed...
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
Wonder if they get hit with damages for failing to meet project milestones??
Assuming they fail to meet them.

Regards
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Pretty disgraceful behaviour from the consortium. They knowingly underbid and are trying to make their profit on variations to the contract by literally holding the state to ransom.

But the Treasury is as much to blame for signing contracts that they would have known were under the odds, and governments of both stripes also wear a lot of this for refusing to release financial details of PPPs for "commercial-in-confidence" reasons. Had precise dollar figures of the last 20 years of BOOT and availability contracts been released to the public you can be bloody well sure we would not still be using them with such abandon.

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