You do wonder sometimes with some of the rubbish in Facebook.

Some people will probably try and censure me for this, but the same could be said for the RP forums. FB is no better, but it certainly isn't any worse. In fact, I would say it's a little bit better, as the vast majority of people using it are posting under their own name - they're less likely to make an idiot of themselves for that reason. There are always those who don't care, but they're in the minority.

Oh well. I hope Facebook is accurate.

And why wouldn't it be accurate? It's an official statement made by Steamrail Victoria. Isn't it time you bit the bullet and actually took a look at FB, rather than continually judging it as bad, and/or whining about it because you don't get any information here? Hint: most of the people who make informative posts here are on FB, and post the information there first. That is why the traffic is well down on the forums these days, compared to what it was in 2007.

Some people will probably try and censure me for this, but the same could be said for the RP forums. FB is no better, but it certainly isn't any worse. In fact, I would say it's a little bit better, as the vast majority of people using it are posting under their own name - they're less likely to make an idiot of themselves for that reason. There are always those who don't care, but they're in the minority.

And why wouldn't it be accurate? It's an official statement made by Steamrail Victoria. Isn't it time you bit the bullet and actually took a look at FB, rather than continually judging it as bad, and/or whining about it because you don't get any information here? Hint: most of the people who make informative posts here are on FB, and post the information there first. That is why the traffic is well down on the forums these days, compared to what it was in 2007.

I read your comment. You are right but also wrong if I may say so.

I have looked at Facebook.  Besides being a complete mess for groups, you have people just posting photos all day long.  It is impossible to find anything on there once it has been posted.  Take Bob Richo on TDU.  He posts hundreds of photos and clogs up the TDU posts. I gave up.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a proper conversation about a topic on there.  I am sure many would agree with me.  It is very structured and sane and well moderated here.  Moderation is a joke on Facebook.

If you are trying to come back over here and push the facebook trolly, please don't.  We all know the differences.  We are happy here. I believe both systems serve a useful void.  Facebook quick sightings and easy mobile access,  Railpage more in depth information and databases and cameras etc.  They both have a role.

If you honestly think that facebook is more accurate because some use their own name then I disagree.  There are many people on facebook with accounts not in their own name.  There are people like yourself who have been banned from facebook groups. (no offense)

Anyhow, let's not respond to "Isn't it time you bit the bullet and actually took a look at FB, rather than continually judging it as bad, and/or whining about it because you don't get any information here?" from you. Waste of time.  I do not like personal attacks. I can rise above that.  But if you feel you can point me to a whinge then please feel free.  For the record, I am on facebook.  I just choose not to use it much. Too much "white noise". Too much "I have a lot of old photos and I wish to self promote" stuff.

Both systems exist.  People who want one liners, yes Facebook.  People who want in depth discussion, here.

As for your comment about post volumes.  I would not know about the volumes.

What I would say is there was once a system called Railpage (before my time) where nothing else was about.  Once facebook arrived people tried both and have created a long list of bespoke groups (on facebook) where information is in silos.  Some people like that because they don't like to share information.  They are happy to have their own little private groups (usually because they have been kicked off the main group TDU and others and Railpage (i guess)

Who wins?  No one. Then again there is a lot more to Railpage than a few forum posts.  I would probably finish my saying the teams of people over here at Railpage have done a first class job at developing this service.  I take my hat off to them all. This system is truly unique across the globe.

What also needs to be said is the Railpage system has reliability issues currently.  These need to be fixed.

Anyway back to the Topic.  Sorry to digress.

snip

If you are using TDU as the measure of accuracy on moderation you're sorely wrong. That group was well known for not doing anything when fights broke out for about a day or so. Most decent posters left that group after getting annoyed by the lack of moderation.

And I wonder if you are one of those few that just posted news articles from here and there continually without putting much else conversation or input in?

If you are using TDU as the measure of accuracy on moderation you're sorely wrong. That group was well known for not doing anything when fights broke out for about a day or so. Most decent posters left that group after getting annoyed by the lack of moderation.

I am stating that moderation on TDU and other facebook groups (I don't use facebook groups much anymore) is terrible or non existent.  My entire point is that Railpage is a better run service than any of the facebook groups.  Moderation here is pretty good i feel. But I could be wrong.

"And I wonder if you are one of those few that just posted news articles from here and there continually without putting much else conversation or input in?"

I do not post on TDU and have not for some time.  In fact I hardly read it now.  Last time I tried to read anything useful it was full of 20 year old pictures of NSW locomotives.

Anyhow we are getting off topic.

I have experienced extremely poor moderation on facebook.

TDU was bad but it is not the worst.  There are other rail groups which delight in allowing people to be less than complimentary to others.  This is one of the main reasons I no longer use these groups. Even facebook or farcebook in general.

I can understand why people use it.  It is easy to post and you have a mobile app. It ends there.

When trying to look back at posts the facebook systems for groups is a design nightmare.  It was just not designed be be used for structured discussion.  This is exactly why people continue to use forums (media, Railpage, other train boards and the like)

I agree with JJ and SM08.  Moderation bad.

I have also seen the constantly needless posting from Bob Richo. You need to remember it is what it is.

Also relevant.  I wonder at times how many facebook groupies come over to Railpage to leech information.  If this platform did not exist it would be a dark day for rail fans in this country.  

The issue here is platform capacity. I am not sure about post volumes but it is hard to get a connection at times with server outage messages constant over a long period.  I understand this is being addressed but it all takes time and money.

The guys here do a great job.  Lucky to have such a dedicated team.

Long live Railpage and Long live Facebook.  Just Facebook for discussions in groups is not for me.

Look's as though this got snipped and shifted. I have only just caught up with it all. I must say that some people seem to be going on tangents for little to no reason, and jumping the gun without actually taking any notice that I wasn't referring to them in my previous post, but was referring to somebody else. As I am a little bored tonight, I thought I might as well reply (lucky you!).

I read your comment. You are right but also wrong if I may say so.

Wrong, as in I wasn't even addressing you in the paragraph that you appear to have taken exception to?

Look at who I have quoted first before going off the deep end. Who I have quoted, is who I am referring to.

Let me get straight to the point here: I was referring to the user freightgate in my second quoted paragraph, as for some unknown reason he has an inherent fear of FB; has stated many times that he has never used it, yet he continually whines that he isn't getting information here. He is perfectly happy when another user passes on information from FB, and states that that is the source of it. He also seems to commend photos being commandeered from Facebook, and shared here without the prior consent of the photographer/copyright holder - this very activity brings RP into disrepute, as that is theft.

Is that fair on the people who run the RP forums...?

I have looked at Facebook.  Besides being a complete mess for groups, you have people just posting photos all day long.  It is impossible to find anything on there once it has been posted.  Take Bob Richo on TDU.  He posts hundreds of photos and clogs up the TDU posts. I gave up.

If you're using TDU, it's any wonder you gave up! That group has an extremely bad reputation. Many people who actually had the correct information were censured because they dared to question a few snotty know-it-all teenagers. Quite a few were wrongly banned for this reason, others simply walked as it wasn't worth being a member anymore. There are many groups on FB, most of which are well run, and are moderated tightly. How do I know? Because I run one. My group is moderated properly, and runs fairly smoothly as a result. Occasionally there are some people that play up, but that sort of thing is kerbstomped very quickly.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a proper conversation about a topic on there.  I am sure many would agree with me.  It is very structured and sane and well moderated here.  Moderation is a joke on Facebook.

Absolute garbage. Again, you are only using TDU as an example, and it is the worst example you can use. You have also stated that you haven't really used FB, so I'll put that statement down to your apparent inexperience. There are groups out there that are packed with informative discussion, and also have railwaymen both past and present sharing their experiences, and answering any questions that people might have to increase their own knowledge (this is getting extremely rare here these days). There are many groups that are also extremely well moderated. Don't lump them all in the same basket because you've had a bad experience with TDU.

If you are trying to come back over here and push the facebook trolly, please don't.  We all know the differences.  We are happy here. I believe both systems serve a useful void.  Facebook quick sightings and easy mobile access,  Railpage more in depth information and databases and cameras etc.  They both have a role.

Since when are you the arbiter of who can and can't use RP? Please. Don't go down that path. I've done my bit for this place in the past. I have actually been a moderator here, but left because dealing with some of the more...ummm... "special" users was starting to take it's toll. I also had a disagreement with bevans about a few things, but that is now water under the bridge as far as I am concerned.

Also; you may wish to note that I haven't mentioned the cameras, or databases; only the forums and the people who use them. I have done this, as the other services offered by RP are irrelevent to this thread. This thread is about discussion on the RP forums, and FB. It is also because you didn't read my post, and take note of who I was quoting/replying to in the first place.

If you honestly think that facebook is more accurate because some use their own name then I disagree.  There are many people on facebook with accounts not in their own name.  

If you had have read my post, I did acknowledge that there are people who use their real name and still cause strife. There are also those who go by nom-de-plumes; as stated before: they are in the minority. They also find themselves being shown the door rather rapidly in the well moderated groups.

And yes, FB tends to be more accurate these days, as much of the information being shared comes directly from the source (note the statement about the Garratt by Steamrail, and also note that it wasn't posted here immediately, but was on FB along with their website). The group dedicated to the restoration of Steamranger's 520 is another example of a group focused on one subject, with information coming directly from the source (ie: the people managing, and working on the project). Plenty of in-depth discussion takes place there, yet it would only get be re-posted here if someone asked. There is no post made directly to RP as there has been in the past. Unfortunately, the RP forums seem to be a bit forgotten these days. That is in no way the fault of RP though. It's just a general trend. I am sure something will pop up and replace FB eventually as well.

There are people like yourself who have been banned from facebook groups. (no offense)

No offence taken.

You obviously know who I am (have we met?), so I'll briefly address your last point about me being banned from a couple of FB groups: I was banned from TDU for starting my own group, and TDU's founder had a problem with that for some unknown reason. This was followed by some extremely bizarre behaviour by him in my group, which sadly, saw him banned (I also had to block him). I still have no idea what motivated his behaviour. The other group I was banned from was because I tried to settle a dispute amicably with a group admin, who was being an arrogant berk to another group member for no reason. If I have been banned from any other groups, then you'll have to forgive me for not remembering them - they can't have been all that important to begin with.

Anyhow, let's not respond to "Isn't it time you bit the bullet and actually took a look at FB, rather than continually judging it as bad, and/or whining about it because you don't get any information here?" from you. Waste of time.

Speak for yourself.

A humourous barb of encouragement aimed at someone else (that's right, someone else and not you) isn't worth the effort?

Do you think that if you had of read my post properly in the beginning (who I was actually quoting, and responding to), you would have gone on this self-indulgent tangent? I rather doubt it, still, it's been fun. I must admit that I have enjoyed the experience.

I do not like personal attacks. I can rise above that.  But if you feel you can point me to a whinge then please feel free.  For the record, I am on facebook.  I just choose not to use it much. Too much "white noise". Too much "I have a lot of old photos and I wish to self promote" stuff.

You don't like personal attacks; yet you are happy to pay out on this Bob Richo chap, when he's not even here (that we know of) to defend himself? How magnanimous of you...

Both systems exist.  People who want one liners, yes Facebook.  People who want in depth discussion, here.

I think you'll find that there is just as much (if not more) in depth discussion on FB these days - especially given there is direct access to information straight from the source in many cases. If there is wrong information or speculating taking place, this is usually corrected quite rapidly by an official, or someone close to the source. Like anything though, there is information that cannot be shared for reasons such as commercial-in-confidence, which curtails any discussion quite quickly.

As for your comment about post volumes.  I would not know about the volumes.

Between 2004 - 2008, the RP forums were the place to be. Since the advent of the FB groups, there has been a steady decline in factual posts, and an increase in baseless speculation. This seems to be a trend with many phpBB based forums these days. It's not just restricted to here. Yahoo Groups have also taken a beating, although there are a couple that manage to hold on due to a faithful membership base (Ausloco is one example I can think of).

What I would say is there was once a system called Railpage (before my time) where nothing else was about.  Once facebook arrived people tried both and have created a long list of bespoke groups (on facebook) where information is in silos.

You mean there are groups that specify with one particular genre or subject, correct? Yes, this is true. It's not such a bad thing either. The majority of my interest is the railways of both Victoria, and South Australia. There are groups on FB that cater to my exact interests, so I am a member of them. If there is something that doesn't interest me (as there is here on RP), then I simply don't look at it, or join up. Pretty simple.  

Some people like that because they don't like to share information.  They are happy to have their own little private groups (usually because they have been kicked off the main group TDU and others and Railpage (i guess)

Good guess, but wrong.

Most of the closed groups are that way to prevent theft of photographs and information, and also to keep known trouble makers out (or at least try to prevent them from coming in). One group that I could mention was an 'Open Group', but that was spoiled by a certain user here, who reposted photos taken from FB without the photographers consent just last week. This group has now been changed to a 'Closed Group' as a precaution against such unauthorised activity. It's a shame that this has happened, and it all comes down to one person doing the wrong thing (yes, 8077, I mean you).

It is also worth mentioning that TDU isn't the main group anymore - hasn't been for a long time. Many splinter groups were started as an antidote to TDU (no, mine wasn't one if you're wondering), or specialise in certain areas. TDU had the potential to be a great group, but it was let down by the people running it. Too late now, as most of the more valuable people have either been banned for little or no reason; or have moved elsewhere so they can share their interest without having to worry about some juvenile being a complete twat to them for no reason. This exodus has also occured due to TDU's moderators being ineffective (banning people when they weren't at fault as an example), or totally indifferent to anti-social behaviour. It's a shame, but that is what has let them down.

Who wins?  No one. Then again there is a lot more to Railpage than a few forum posts.  I would probably finish my saying the teams of people over here at Railpage have done a first class job at developing this service.  I take my hat off to them all. This system is truly unique across the globe.

Again, the services you have mentioned are irrelevent to this discussion, which is about...Discussion on FB and RP. Nobody is questioning the effort being put into the other services by those involved.

What also needs to be said is the Railpage system has reliability issues currently.  These need to be fixed.

I'm sure that the people who volunteer (yes, RP is run voluntarily) their time, and expertise are well aware of that. Very nice of you to compliment them one second, then give them a back-hander the next though - I am sure they will appreciate that.

Anyway back to the Topic.  Sorry to digress.

This comment of your's is rather redundant now, but I will add that you need to read posts properly before digressing in future. It'll save you the embarressment, and also save everyone else the time it takes to wade past it to find the information they're after (sound familiar?).