SA to keep Overland running

 
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
It's an interesting idea to actually take a census. I'm due to go to Ballarat next month and I'd love to take the Overland just so I could report on this but sadly the mucking around at Ararat to get to Ballarat doesn't justify it.
don_dunstan

...so in preference you'll fly and muck about with the airports and the expense of arriving/leaving there to make your way to the Ballarat airport bus, as you wouldn't want to take a 'train' to Ballarat...heaven forbid... Smile

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  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I knew it was low, but not that low though Justapassenger if that number is correct it makes it all the worse.

All right using this number of passengers in the GSR part of the train, lets us say take 20 passengers out of that for place in Victoria other than Melbourne which is not an unrealistic number and that leaves even less people going all the way through than what I posted.  82-20 leaves 62 passengers or about one bus load of passengers.
DJPeters

I'll happily post the 1/1/2019 numbers soon after travelling to Stawell.

Moreover, if you think that being squashed in a bus seat for 10 hours, travelling along an undulating highway with an endless procession of long distance B Double trucks racing past on the extensive dual carriageway section less then a meter away from your window and stopping at Greasy Joes for 'food' on the run is your idea of civilised travel and could in any way whatsoever be comparable to the armchairs and roomy/accessible toilets of a train...then I'm afraid you are completely delusional...

I think this comparison wraps up my argument that you SA guys are years behind in your thinking and several posts by me...apart from being entertaining for myself, because of what they reveal about yourselves definitely cannot create a change in your collective mindset.

Mike.
  SAR523 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Chicago, IL
Suffice to say and you would have to agree...that there are far more people using the Overland for each service it operates, than can travel on the bus on the same day. IE, the Overland is NOT carrying fresh air in empty carriages.

Moreover as it was a political decision several years ago to reduce the subsidy of the train is the reason the train only operates twice a week. It would also be correct and if you are sensible, that if the service were to operate every day the train would, of course carry more pax than could fit in your wonderful bus.

Again, as you are such enthusiastic bus supporters...need I say more..

Mike.
The Vinelander

OK Mike - why don't you outline where you think regional rail in South Australia makes sense?

SA's largest regional center is Gawler.  

It is served by very regular heavy rail today.  

Curiously for a state that has 'no... regional PT culture' it's in the process of being electrified.  

Its population doesn't even put it in the top 10 regional centers in Victoria.  

Over to you.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
It's an interesting idea to actually take a census. I'm due to go to Ballarat next month and I'd love to take the Overland just so I could report on this but sadly the mucking around at Ararat to get to Ballarat doesn't justify it.

...so in preference you'll fly and muck about with the airports and the expense of arriving/leaving there to make your way to the Ballarat airport bus, as you wouldn't want to take a 'train' to Ballarat...heaven forbid... Smile
The Vinelander
WRONG - I'll be taking the V/line Daylink bus/train outbound to Ballarat and flying home in the other direction from Melbourne.

But I could always take the Overland to Ararat and wait around with the flies and heat for an hour and a quarter for the same V/line train that the Daylink will connect me with.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Vinelander's post have made me thankful the SA Government are not contributing to his day out is Stawell.

Initially when SA withdrew its funding I was somewhat embarrassed but after listening to the arguments put forward by those with no knowledge of SA, its history and its politics, I am now glad Victoria has seen fit to waste money doing cardiac massage on a long brain dead cadaver.

The Overland died when it was handed over to AN and later became a daylight service. It had been the proud flagship of the SAR, not forgetting the VR. It was the first inter-colonial train on the continent. It was the reason why the SAR got the 500 and 600 class steam locos and later the 900 class DEs. AN had no real interest in it or other passenger rail in SA. In fact they did not want to carry anything that bled, human or animal.

I think some are trying to keep this thread running in the belief that in doing so the Overland will keep going.

Mr Moderator I am going against my usual sentiment about censorship; PLEASE BLOCK this thread.

If anybody wants to start a thread about what is, socially, technically and financially necessary to justify passenger rail travel in country areas I will willingly contribute.

The Overland is dead, long live the Overland
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
It's an interesting idea to actually take a census. I'm due to go to Ballarat next month and I'd love to take the Overland just so I could report on this but sadly the mucking around at Ararat to get to Ballarat doesn't justify it.

...so in preference you'll fly and muck about with the airports and the expense of arriving/leaving there to make your way to the Ballarat airport bus, as you wouldn't want to take a 'train' to Ballarat...heaven forbid... Smile
WRONG - I'll be taking the V/line Daylink bus/train outbound to Ballarat and flying home in the other direction from Melbourne.

But I could always take the Overland to Ararat and wait around with the flies and heat for an hour and a quarter for the same V/line train that the Daylink will connect me with.
don_dunstan

OR...you could take the Overland to Ararat and connect with the bus to Ballarat with a -1min connexion. Tight I know, but well worth a try and beats hands down my above descriptor of bus travel along highway 8.

Failing that, the RSL is but one block away from Ararat station and an easy and comfy way to wile away an hour till the V'Locity departs.

https://www.vline.com.au/getattachment/3efaa93c-7229-41ef-8ad2-ffc462665ae2/210-Nhill-Melbourne-(via-Horsham)-(1)

However pouting, if taking the train is not encouraged... Smile

Mike.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Or a tour of J Ward:)
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Vinelander's post have made me thankful the SA Government are not contributing to his day out is Stawell.

Initially when SA withdrew its funding I was somewhat embarrassed but after listening to the arguments put forward by those with no knowledge of SA, its history and its politics, I am now glad Victoria has seen fit to waste money doing cardiac massage on a long brain dead cadaver.

The Overland died when it was handed over to AN and later became a daylight service. It had been the proud flagship of the SAR, not forgetting the VR. It was the first inter-colonial train on the continent. It was the reason why the SAR got the 500 and 600 class steam locos and later the 900 class DEs. AN had no real interest in it or other passenger rail in SA. In fact they did not want to carry anything that bled, human or animal.

I think some are trying to keep this thread running in the belief that in doing so the Overland will keep going.

Mr Moderator I am going against my usual sentiment about censorship; PLEASE BLOCK this thread.

If anybody wants to start a thread about what is, socially, technically and financially necessary to justify passenger rail travel in country areas I will willingly contribute.

The Overland is dead, long live the Overland
steam4ian

Stuff and nonsense Exclamation

This thread is shared equally between advocacy for the Overland and regional rail in SA with the bias being towards the Overland.

But like the regional railways that no longer exist in SA you want to bury it because it's a sensitive subject, especially compared with your friends in the east and the regional railways they travel on.

Merry Christmas to all my readers... Razz

Mike.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Suffice to say and you would have to agree...that there are far more people using the Overland for each service it operates, than can travel on the bus on the same day. IE, the Overland is NOT carrying fresh air in empty carriages.

Moreover as it was a political decision several years ago to reduce the subsidy of the train is the reason the train only operates twice a week. It would also be correct and if you are sensible, that if the service were to operate every day the train would, of course carry more pax than could fit in your wonderful bus.

Again, as you are such enthusiastic bus supporters...need I say more..

Mike.

OK Mike - why don't you outline where you think regional rail in South Australia makes sense?

SA's largest regional center is Gawler.  

It is served by very regular heavy rail today.  

Curiously for a state that has 'no... regional PT culture' it's in the process of being electrified.  

Its population doesn't even put it in the top 10 regional centers in Victoria.  

Over to you.
SAR523

Gawler...yes I visited there by train earlier this year when I was in Adelaide for a day off the ship but I digress...

Gawler is 43 Km away from Adelaide and is separated from your fair city by a few green fields. However it's a bit of a stretch of the imagination to call it 'regional'. I commute nearly double that distance every day, 160km as a I will today when I travel to the eastern suburbs for lunch on Victoria's free PT.

As I wrote earlier, Victor Harbor and the Barossa are the two standouts for future reinstatement of your regional services with the Barossa at the top of the list.

Earlier comments in this thread that the Barossa 'locals' wouldn't like the train returning because that would bring additional development in the region only reinforces my argument that development, particularly these days always follows railways.
I'm glad that concession was made to my advocacy argument.

Again...Merry Christmas, I have as 8:15 to catch.

Mike.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Cheers Mikey, have a good one, and we'll continue to argue happily amongst ourselves next year.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Indeed...all in a good cause for the advocacy of PT.

Mike.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Mildura Airport Mildura Airport a happy little airport....
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
Earlier comments in this thread that the Barossa 'locals' wouldn't like the train returning because that would bring additional development in the region only reinforces my argument that development, particularly these days always follows railways. I'm glad that concession was made to my advocacy argument.
Vinelander
Vinelander, you seem not to understand that the close wine producing areas to Adelaide, the Barossa and Mclaren Vale simply don't want their areas taken over by suburbia.  

This is a very real problem for Mclaren Vale which is within the metropolitan area and major developments are taking place practically on its outskirts at Seaford Heights.

The Barossa is seeing development in Nuriootpa in particular and suburbia creeping out from Gawler and is likewise not keen to see grape growing areas either built out or priced out of reach of growers because of land rezoning leading to rate increases.

The development in the Barossa is to support industry in the Barossa rather than as a dormitary area for Adelaide.

If the renewal of the railway, a billion or so to bring the track up from derilict to 100kph plus passenger standards, a couple of hundred million for a (small) railcar fleet, plus the direct costs of running the service, fuel, track access and wages, leads the Barossa to become a dormitary suburb, then of course the locals are going to react unfavourably to rail seeing it as the city intruding into their patch.

The LinkSA bus services from Goolwa and Victor Harbor are much faster than the train service ever was and serve 2 major shopping centres and a hospital before arriving in the centre of Adelaide.

The major handicap for the train is break of guage at Mt Barker Junction.   The present line might be suitable for the leasurly tourist services it carries, but hasn't a hope in hell in competing with the diect via the Victor Harbor Road bus services.

There is some call for the restoration of rail services.  This seems to be coming from some along the Burra line which has poor public transport services.

Those services are poor for one major reason, lack of population so I won't hold out for the passenger services to be restored.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Note:
Thread had a little clean up with 5 posts unrelated to the topic being removed.

Regards,
David Head, Moderator
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Earlier comments in this thread that the Barossa 'locals' wouldn't like the train returning because that would bring additional development in the region only reinforces my argument that development, particularly these days always follows railways. I'm glad that concession was made to my advocacy argument.
Vinelander, you seem not to understand that the close wine producing areas to Adelaide, the Barossa and Mclaren Vale simply don't want their areas taken over by suburbia.  
kipioneer

I have a fair idea...

Adelaide is not alone with this predicament as the Yarra Valley and the Mornington Peninsula vineyards are under similar pressure.

Moreover with housing development creeping from Melbourne to the nearby hills the fertile vegetable growing areas are also under significant pressure.

Don't tell Don D or Aaron, but Horsham's looking good for our New Years day 'Overland jaunt... Smile

Mike.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
As per steam4ian's earlier post, I'm so glad that the SA taxpayer is not contributing to your jolly tourist jaunt.

And I again remind you of how much I'm looking forward to your many, many posts in the coming year all about how you're single-handedly saving a train service by actually using it.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
As per steam4ian's earlier post, I'm so glad that the SA taxpayer is not contributing to your jolly tourist jaunt.

And I again remind you of how much I'm looking forward to your many, many posts in the coming year all about how you're single-handedly saving a train service by actually using it.
don_dunstan

There'll be 1.

The train doesn't operate for me alone, but for the thousands of in many cases...overseas tourists who use it.

Mike.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
As per steam4ian's earlier post, I'm so glad that the SA taxpayer is not contributing to your jolly tourist jaunt.

And I again remind you of how much I'm looking forward to your many, many posts in the coming year all about how you're single-handedly saving a train service by actually using it.

There'll be 1.

The train doesn't operate for me alone, but for the thousands of in many cases...overseas tourists who use it.

Mike.
The Vinelander
"Thousands" yeah... I can't help but walk down Rundle Mall and I get stopped every time by international tourists saying "Wo ist die Overland bitte?". Thousands of them.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
As per steam4ian's earlier post, I'm so glad that the SA taxpayer is not contributing to your jolly tourist jaunt.

And I again remind you of how much I'm looking forward to your many, many posts in the coming year all about how you're single-handedly saving a train service by actually using it.

There'll be 1.

The train doesn't operate for me alone, but for the thousands of in many cases...overseas tourists who use it.

Mike.
"Thousands" yeah... I can't help but walk down Rundle Mall and I get stopped every time by international tourists saying "Wo ist die Overland bitte?". Thousands of them.
don_dunstan

...and you're racist as well...
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Don’s not racist, Don’s just right, and as usual Mike, you’re wrong - batting at 1000 on that one.

I am in the city everyday, I have been asked for directions to all sorts of places, by all sorts of people, in all levels of eniglish, and in some cases the actual truly international language (not Esperanto) of ‘smiling and pointing’ with aids of maps.

In fact recently, my parents travelled to Perth, not by train but by personal car. Enroute they met two lovely Austrian girls, who were also notably not travelling by train.

Whilst in Adelaide they asked us for many directions, including to shopping centres, zoos and where to go to pay a koala - which my wife and I took them to do. You will be disappointed to know that when it became time for them to travel (as literal tourists) to Melbourne quite understandably to us, but likely quite disappointingly to you, they asked for directions and travel ideas for the great ocean road, and not once mentioned the train...

We did however take them through your favourite type of tunnel, being from Europe they had never seen a drive through alcohol service, a vastly more impressive and interesting tunnel than any of those the overland tours through.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
...and you're racist as well...
"The Vinelander"
Quite so; fancy mentioning overseas tourists speaking in their own languages. It's outrageous. Kick them off the Overland at once.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Earlier comments in this thread that the Barossa 'locals' wouldn't like the train returning because that would bring additional development in the region only reinforces my argument that development, particularly these days always follows railways. I'm glad that concession was made to my advocacy argument.
Vinelander, you seem not to understand that the close wine producing areas to Adelaide, the Barossa and Mclaren Vale simply don't want their areas taken over by suburbia.  

I have a fair idea...

Adelaide is not alone with this predicament as the Yarra Valley and the Mornington Peninsula vineyards are under similar pressure.

Moreover with housing development creeping from Melbourne to the nearby hills the fertile vegetable growing areas are also under significant pressure.

Don't tell Don D or Aaron, but Horsham's looking good for our New Years day 'Overland jaunt... Smile

Mike.
The Vinelander
The Mornington Peninsula is a growth area, and has a railway line.  According to the above arguments, the Stony Point line should be closed in order to protect the vineyards and wineries.

But we are constantly reminded that the Yarra Valley is NOT a growth area, and therefore does not need to have its railway extended past Lilydale.

Some kind of contradiction here?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Earlier comments in this thread that the Barossa 'locals' wouldn't like the train returning because that would bring additional development in the region only reinforces my argument that development, particularly these days always follows railways. I'm glad that concession was made to my advocacy argument.
Vinelander, you seem not to understand that the close wine producing areas to Adelaide, the Barossa and Mclaren Vale simply don't want their areas taken over by suburbia.  

I have a fair idea...

Adelaide is not alone with this predicament as the Yarra Valley and the Mornington Peninsula vineyards are under similar pressure.

Moreover with housing development creeping from Melbourne to the nearby hills the fertile vegetable growing areas are also under significant pressure.

Don't tell Don D or Aaron, but Horsham's looking good for our New Years day 'Overland jaunt... Smile

Mike.
The Mornington Peninsula is a growth area, and has a railway line.  According to the above arguments, the Stony Point line should be closed in order to protect the vineyards and wineries.

But we are constantly reminded that the Yarra Valley is NOT a growth area, and therefore does not need to have its railway extended past Lilydale.

Some kind of contradiction here?
Lad_Porter

Let's re-visit Yarra Valley just beyond Lilydale station 'is NOT a growth area' in around 5 years...Wink
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Earlier comments in this thread that the Barossa 'locals' wouldn't like the train returning because that would bring additional development in the region only reinforces my argument that development, particularly these days always follows railways. I'm glad that concession was made to my advocacy argument.
Vinelander, you seem not to understand that the close wine producing areas to Adelaide, the Barossa and Mclaren Vale simply don't want their areas taken over by suburbia.  

I have a fair idea...

Adelaide is not alone with this predicament as the Yarra Valley and the Mornington Peninsula vineyards are under similar pressure.

Moreover with housing development creeping from Melbourne to the nearby hills the fertile vegetable growing areas are also under significant pressure.

Don't tell Don D or Aaron, but Horsham's looking good for our New Years day 'Overland jaunt... Smile

Mike.
The Mornington Peninsula is a growth area, and has a railway line.  According to the above arguments, the Stony Point line should be closed in order to protect the vineyards and wineries.

But we are constantly reminded that the Yarra Valley is NOT a growth area, and therefore does not need to have its railway extended past Lilydale.

Some kind of contradiction here?
Lad_Porter

Ironic you mention Stony Point.

After Christmas lunch yesterday we were chauffeured to Stony Point as I hadn't travelled that out-of-the-way line for many years. The ferry had just arrived from Cowes and suddenly there was nearly 100 pax on the train, not to mention the freebies on a day out.

METRO travel was free yesterday, however the ferry wasn't.

If anything, Mornington will eventually have to look at re-opening as well as maintaining service on the Stony Point corridor.

Mike.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
[color=#000000][size=2][font=Roboto, wf_SegoeUI, "Segoe UI", Segoe, "Segoe WP", Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][quote=“Part time Overland user, with no special knowledge of anything”]Earlier comments in this thread that the Barossa 'locals' wouldn't like the train returning because that would bring additional development in the region only reinforces my argument that development, particularly these days always follows railways.[/quote][/font][/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=2][font=Roboto, wf_SegoeUI, "Segoe UI", Segoe, "Segoe WP", Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]You do realise that effectively ALL the development of Mt Barker came well after the rail ‘service’ ceased? That all but the most recent developments in Seaford and Aldinga came BEFORE the rail extension? And you realise that Bordertown with its rail ‘service*’ still existing has had a net REDUCTION in development in the last seven years?[/font][/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=2][font=Roboto, wf_SegoeUI, "Segoe UI", Segoe, "Segoe WP", Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Like everything you say, you’re wrong again. Do you even try to research, or even have a basic think about what you post?[/font][/size][/color]

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