SA to keep Overland running

 
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Victoria is the most reliant out of all the states on stamp duty, collecting a shade over six billion from it last financial year. So far this year the number of settled sales is down 15.8% in Melbourne alone and the fall in Melbourne prices will substantially reduce the tax take because it's a progressive tax. So they're already projected to be down a billion dollars - where will that money come from?

I'd suggest that The Overland is a good place to start cutting.
Precisely why we need a broad based land tax instead. To decouple states reliance on stamp duty that impacts policy choices.  If they have to focus on improving land values, then that is going to lead a whole lot of other policy outcomes like increasing the productivity of that land.
I'd go even further and say that because labour's share of GDP is declining rapidly we should shift the taxation system from taxing labour to taxing capital, especially speculative capital. CGT on real estate capital gains badly needs to be increased, although by the looks of the Aussie property market we've missed the window of opportunity for the time being.
Land tax is actually a tax on capital stock (as opposed to capital flow for stamp duty) so would do what your suggesting.  Its also unable to escape the country, so represents a very low flight risk.

Id say taking away most of the capital gains concession and means testing the primary residence exemption (and/or making the amount over the mean house price taxable and the amount below the mean tax free) would go a long way to this.
james.au
Off topic of the Overland, but when has that stopped a thread in RP.

Landtax on unimproved value, only. Sorry I lived in Tassie to have some jokers from local council walking through your house and yard every few years ticking if you built a BBQ, painted the house revamped the bathroom then telling me my house is worth 33% more than it sold for after 18mths on the market the following year is a joke. The whole process is a job creating exercise sucking tax from the taxpayer.

The states need to move away from market driven tax revenue, thus disconnecting themselves from boom and bust as much as possible, drop all the "duty taxes" as they themselves are also a joke, taking insurance polices, wages, buying and selling of items like houses, shares, cars, boats etc. Keep it simple, tax the fixed asset, like land as mentioned by others. Taxes are set by size and value per m2, adjusted for inflation and every decade adjusted for market changes in various areas. Simple, guaranteed income.

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  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Don you got ripped off!

My last Jetstar tix a month or two ago were $79 and I got an uber to Tully for $16!

I could have walked the 20km from the airport to my house and beat the Overland schedule.
Aaron
Skybus is nice and predictable and I managed to see in detail where the collapsing Bell Street Exit sign had fallen down from the upper storey of the bus.

To get back to the original topic, I'm not even sure if the Overland was running on Wednesday but I got an extra half a day in Melbourne. From a consumer point of view an overnight train back to Adelaide would have been more use-able. Despite the disadvantages of flying it's still cheaper and faster than the Overland, I'm just not interested in spending 11 or so hours on a train unless I can sleep in a proper bed.

Why not use the GSR money to entice someone to provide a nightly hotel train like it used to be? it's a much better idea than building a hotel on the exterior of the Adelaide Oval.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Why not use the GSR money to entice someone to provide a nightly hotel train like it used to be? it's a much better idea than building a hotel on the exterior of the Adelaide Oval.
don_dunstan
One of those hotels would be full of happy tourists. The other one is The Overnight / Overland.

BG
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

To get back to the original topic, I'm not even sure if the Overland was running on Wednesday but I got an extra half a day in Melbourne. From a consumer point of view an overnight train back to Adelaide would have been more use-able. Despite the disadvantages of flying it's still cheaper and faster than the Overland, I'm just not interested in spending 11 or so hours on a train unless I can sleep in a proper bed.

Why not use the GSR money to entice someone to provide a nightly hotel train like it used to be? it's a much better idea than building a hotel on the exterior of the Adelaide Oval.
don_dunstan
Overnight trains are dying more than day trains. Sleepers cost an absolute fortune, hence why the public rarely book them and the govt is fed up subsidizing them.  

S-M and S-B as well as other regional trains in Oz can sustain numbers for 3 car or better daily service (with air competition). No reason a daily day time service between the two cities of Mel and Adelaide cannot achieve the same with a upgraded train, something like Prospector or fancy V/locity. The travel time will be improved but still remain long at around 9h or so.

Will you still be able to buy cheaper airfares? - Yes, but you can do that against the XPT and Qld Tilt Trains

Will it still most of the day? - Yes, like above

Will it still be subsidised? - Yes, like above.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Don, why spend 11 hours on a train getting home, even if you can properly sleep on the train?

Fly home and sleep properly in your own bed...
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Don, why spend 11 hours on a train getting home, even if you can properly sleep on the train?

Fly home and sleep properly in your own bed...
Aaron
Yeah I can't really think of an equivalent and as RTT_Rules says hotel trains don't really exist outside things like the remaining GSR services - a completely different kind of market.

I caught the V/line Daylink recently at a time when I knew from experience it would be booked solid; the plane home was too but you're only sitting next to someone for an hour. I know some people here have a revulsion to buses but for me it's relatively cheap, reliable and takes me to exactly where I want to go (Ballarat).

The VIC government would have to make the fares V/line equivalent all the way for me to even consider it; if their generosity extends to resuscitating a dying interstate train then why not at least make it price-competitive to make up for the inconvenience of having to use it.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Off topic of the Overland, but when has that stopped a thread in RP.

Landtax on unimproved value, only. Sorry I lived in Tassie to have some jokers from local council walking through your house and yard every few years ticking if you built a BBQ, painted the house revamped the bathroom then telling me my house is worth 33% more than it sold for after 18mths on the market the following year is a joke. The whole process is a job creating exercise sucking tax from the taxpayer.

The states need to move away from market driven tax revenue, thus disconnecting themselves from boom and bust as much as possible, drop all the "duty taxes" as they themselves are also a joke, taking insurance polices, wages, buying and selling of items like houses, shares, cars, boats etc. Keep it simple, tax the fixed asset, like land as mentioned by others. Taxes are set by size and value per m2, adjusted for inflation and every decade adjusted for market changes in various areas. Simple, guaranteed income.
RTT_Rules
Ha yep, if people are worried dthead or bevans can split it off Wink

Agreed on UIV - its the cheapest way and is what most rates are done on now.  it is LAND that is being taxed, not what you build on it.  Doing CIV creates disincentives to make marginal capital investments which should not be an outcome of the tax.

Pretty well agree on your whole 3rd paragraph.  Anything that is a tax on a flow of money through the system is going to slow down the system.  Just do the stocks (except for income tax, that is the one exception).
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Off topic of the Overland, but when has that stopped a thread in RP.

Landtax on unimproved value, only. Sorry I lived in Tassie to have some jokers from local council walking through your house and yard every few years ticking if you built a BBQ, painted the house revamped the bathroom then telling me my house is worth 33% more than it sold for after 18mths on the market the following year is a joke. The whole process is a job creating exercise sucking tax from the taxpayer.

The states need to move away from market driven tax revenue, thus disconnecting themselves from boom and bust as much as possible, drop all the "duty taxes" as they themselves are also a joke, taking insurance polices, wages, buying and selling of items like houses, shares, cars, boats etc. Keep it simple, tax the fixed asset, like land as mentioned by others. Taxes are set by size and value per m2, adjusted for inflation and every decade adjusted for market changes in various areas. Simple, guaranteed income.
Ha yep, if people are worried dthead or bevans can split it off Wink

Agreed on UIV - its the cheapest way and is what most rates are done on now.  it is LAND that is being taxed, not what you build on it.  Doing CIV creates disincentives to make marginal capital investments which should not be an outcome of the tax.

Pretty well agree on your whole 3rd paragraph.  Anything that is a tax on a flow of money through the system is going to slow down the system.  Just do the stocks (except for income tax, that is the one exception).
james.au
Taxing people who are house proud! What a joke!
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Could encourage me to let my place run down to a dump instead of you know fix the walls etc......
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Could encourage me to let my place run down to a dump instead of you know fix the walls etc......
james.au
Yep,

Back to the OL,
- run the thing 7 days a week in each direction, day travel.
- 3 Car DMU, option to add another trailer if needed

- 3 x driver FC cars
- 3 x driver EC cars
- 3 x trailers

If its popular enough, procure an extra trailer.

If its unpopular, convert the whole thing for use on SG or other in Vic, nothing lost.

Terminate service, goes down in history to say we tried!
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Could encourage me to let my place run down to a dump instead of you know fix the walls etc......
Yep,

Back to the OL,
- run the thing 7 days a week in each direction, day travel.
- 3 Car DMU, option to add another trailer if needed

- 3 x driver FC cars
- 3 x driver EC cars
- 3 x trailers

If its popular enough, procure an extra trailer.

If its unpopular, convert the whole thing for use on SG or other in Vic, nothing lost.

Terminate service, goes down in history to say we tried!
RTT_Rules

The track to Victoria is already SG and so why would you be converting to SG?

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