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3801 Boiler and it's return to operation

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      Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Norda Fittazroy
    Original thread : https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11362992-s325.htm  Dthead


    The old thread had gone more than six months with no posts, hence the new one.
    This also means that we have had more than six months of deafening silence about the boiler. Does anybody actually know what the hell is happening?
    Posted: 12 Apr 2016 10:46

    Last edited by Valvegear on 12 Apr 2016 16:49; edited 2 times in total

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      apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Location: Location.
    The old thread had gone more than six months with no posts, hence the new one.
    This also means that we have had more than six months of deafening silence about the boiler. Does anybody actually know what the hell is happening?
    Valvegear
    No.
    Posted: 12 Apr 2016 10:55
      M636C Minister for Railways

    The old thread had gone more than six months with no posts, hence the new one.
    This also means that we have had more than six months of deafening silence about the boiler. Does anybody actually know what the hell is happening?
    No.
    apw5910
    My understanding is that the existing boiler from 3801 wiil be repaired and the locomotive will be returned to service.

    Similarly, 3830's boiler is beng repaired and it is expected back later this year or early next year.

    3801's boiler will take longer.

    It is expected that the 3801 replacement boiler will be scrapped and a new one built while they pretend to repair it.

    All of this is rumour of course, since nothing official is being said.

    M636C
    Posted: 12 Apr 2016 11:17
      lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

    Location: Somewhere you're not
    I did read that they were to repair the original boiler (not the one that they got from Germany) and keep the one from Germany as a spare, and bring it up to Australian Standards

    Kind Regards
    Posted: 12 Apr 2016 11:17
      Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Norda Fittazroy
    My original post asked if anyone knew what was happening. I don't want this thread to turn into another collection of possibilities, or things someone heard, or rumours.

    If it's established fact; let's have it. Otherwise "do an apw5910" , and say No.
    Posted: 12 Apr 2016 16:26
      M636C Minister for Railways

    My original post asked if anyone knew what was happening. I don't want this thread to turn into another collection of possibilities, or things someone heard, or rumours.

    If it's established fact; let's have it. Otherwise "do an apw5910" , and say No.
    Valvegear
    The statements I made were based on comments from a normally well informed source.

    In fact I heard the same comments from a different person on Sunday.

    But we can just wait and see. I for one would be very surprised if 3801's old boiler was NOT repaired and put back into service.

    If you wish to disagree, that's fine. Eventually, 3801 will re-enter service and we will all know whether it happened as described or not. But if all that is posted is the nothing that is officially announced nobody will have any idea until the locomotive is back in service.

    You asked and I told you what I believe is happening.

    M636C
    Posted: 12 Apr 2016 19:24
      Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: Dalby Qld
    My original post asked if anyone knew what was happening. I don't want this thread to turn into another collection of possibilities, or things someone heard, or rumours.

    If it's established fact; let's have it. Otherwise "do an apw5910" , and say No.
    Valvegear
    So you want everyone that doesn't know anything to post the word "NO"? Here's mine: NO. Smile
    Posted: 12 Apr 2016 23:22
      hbedriver Chief Train Controller

    I think it is established that the boiler used on 3801 until a few years back will now be repaired. The boiler bought to replace it needs work, and will be brought up to standard. Presumably some parts of the new boiler will be discarded, others kept. I guess M636C may provide a definition of when it is "scrapped" as distinct from "repaired".

    Other locos have received a "whistle job", to avoid them being shown as scrapped (jack up whistle, throw loco into scrap bin, provide new loco, lower whistle and it has been beautifully restored!) Wonder what the equivalent is for a boiler?
    Posted: 13 Apr 2016 07:55
      M636C Minister for Railways

    I think it is established that the boiler used on 3801 until a few years back will now be repaired. The boiler bought to replace it needs work, and will be brought up to standard. Presumably some parts of the new boiler will be discarded, others kept. I guess M636C may provide a definition of when it is "scrapped" as distinct from "repaired".

    Other locos have received a "whistle job", to avoid them being shown as scrapped (jack up whistle, throw loco into scrap bin, provide new loco, lower whistle and it has been beautifully restored!) Wonder what the equivalent is for a boiler?
    hbedriver
    The words I used regarding the German boiler were paraphrasing my source...

    If the barrel is out of round and the front tubeplate not square to the centreline as has been stated, I think officially, and the boiler barrel is replaced by one that is circular within the approved tolerances with a square front tubeplate, what part of that boiler remains? Presumably the firebox. The Germans replaced all the fixed stays while the boiler was in Germany, so the firebox might be OK.

    But substantial parts of the boiler that has been shipped to Australia twice are unlikely to be used.

    M636C
    Posted: 13 Apr 2016 09:54
      c3526blue Deputy Commissioner

    Location: in the cuckoos nest
    Gents (and Lady(s)),

    THNSW made a public announcement in September 2015 entitled

    The way forward for two much loved steam locomotives

    Link to article/press release -
    http://www.transportheritagensw.com.au/#!The-way-forward-for-two-much-loved-steam-locomotives/c1ofn/55f2773b0cf23d0ff000ffa7

    This gives more broad details on the return to service of 3830 and 3801 and the three C38 boilers involved.

    In summary boiler tab 3801 (in 3830) will be repaired in situ and it is expected 3830 will steam again in the second half of 2016.  It is noted that boiler tab 3801 is 75 years old and can still be made serviceable.  Boiler tab 3819 (formerly in 3801) will be substantially rebuilt and reinstalled in 3801.  3801 is planned to steam again in the second half of 2017.  The DB boiler will be brought up to Australian standards (AS????) and kept as a spare boiler.  Unfortunately it has not been built to the correct dimensions (still!!) and if it is installed in a C38 the engine will need to be modified to let it fit.

    I attended a THNSW seminar in (I think) October 2015 which included presentations on the condition and problems associated with these 3 boilers.  Slides were shown of the boiler internals and there were some real eye opening issues associated with the DB boiler.

    My personal opinion is that the workmanship on the new boiler was substandard and some very poor practices were used in its construction and/or repairs. RailCorp/ORH were responsible for some silly contractual decisions and some poor directions given to DB.

    The term "rolling heads" comes to mind, this didn't occur, but THNSW had to find a way forward after the debacle had happened.  The question of costs came up but there was no meaningful response.

    It is disappointing that there have not been any boiler updates since this release but I imagine there is still a lot of material that needs to be swept under the carpet, so don't expect any significant developments to be publicised.  I do not think the NSW Government (RaiCorp) likes being embarrassed and would like the whole issue to go away ASAP.

    Happy steaming,

    John
    Posted: 13 Apr 2016 22:49

    Last edited by c3526blue on 13 Apr 2016 22:50; edited 1 time in total
      Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Norda Fittazroy
    So the short answer is that nobody knows anything new. Thank you all.
    Posted: 14 Apr 2016 07:20
      apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Location: Location.
    So the short answer is that nobody knows anything new. Thank you all.
    Valvegear
    Well I'm pretty sure the team at Chullora would know. But they've undoubtedly been told to shut up.
    Posted: 14 Apr 2016 07:22
      Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Norda Fittazroy
    Well I'm pretty sure the team at Chullora would know. But they've undoubtedly been told to shut up.
    "apw5910"
    I'm sure you're right.
    Posted: 14 Apr 2016 07:24
      BrigadierBrasso Station Staff

    Speaking of 38s, no truth to the statement one THNSW rep said at Maitland that the work on 3830 was to be abandoned and the loco was to be reassembled for display only in Trainworks?

    Tallyho!
    Posted: 14 Apr 2016 08:10

    Last edited by BrigadierBrasso on 14 Apr 2016 08:12; edited 1 time in total
      M636C Minister for Railways

    Speaking of 38s, no truth to the statement one THNSW rep said at Maitland that the work on 3830 was to be abandoned and the loco was to be reassembled for display only in Trainworks?

    Tallyho!
    BrigadierBrasso

    If that is so it is news.

    I contradicts the official statement reproduced above which has been confirmed recently by my contacts (such as they are).

    Presumably the German boiler would be used on 3830 if the current boiler was condemned, rather than it being spare....

    M636C
    Posted: 14 Apr 2016 09:47
      Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Norda Fittazroy
    (Sigh) I really was hoping to avoid rumour, speculation and repeats of earlier ideas.
    Posted: 14 Apr 2016 10:04
      dthead Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Valvegear,   c3526blue  has given us the public info re the boiler. It is what you wanted. until another official announcement, all we have it rumor, conjecture, etc.  If there are people on Railpage who "know" they will not tell.  So in a way this thread has been pointless.

    But it is keeping discussion ongoing.

    So we wait for  official info...........  


    Regards,
    David Head
    Posted: 14 Apr 2016 10:10
      james.au Minister for Railways

    Location: Sydney, NSW
    There is always the option of writing to the museum/minister and seeing what the current Official Position is?
    Posted: 14 Apr 2016 10:17
      michaelgreenhill Administrator That's Numberwang!

    Location: Melbourne
    Speaking of 38s, no truth to the statement one THNSW rep said at Maitland that the work on 3830 was to be abandoned and the loco was to be reassembled for display only in Trainworks?

    Tallyho!

    If that is so it is news.

    I contradicts the official statement reproduced above which has been confirmed recently by my contacts (such as they are).

    Presumably the German boiler would be used on 3830 if the current boiler was condemned, rather than it being spare....

    M636C
    M636C
    Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
    Posted: 14 Apr 2016 10:27
      Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Norda Fittazroy
    Valvegear,   c3526blue  has given us the public info re the boiler. It is what you wanted.
    dthead
    With respect, it was nothing that we didn't already know. I simply asked if there were any up to date facts, since the former thread was over six months old. If not, which appears to be the case, then so be it. I'm no worse off, am I?

    Edit: I cannot agree that this thread was pointless; that could not be known until my question was answered, in either the positive or the negative. I accept the negative, and will now go and amuse myself by training my pet dodo to whistle "Dixie".
    Posted: 14 Apr 2016 11:09

    Last edited by Valvegear on 14 Apr 2016 11:18; edited 1 time in total
      dthead Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Valvegear the thread is not pointless it is in fact the right way to bring up a old topic, which 99% of us here want to know. Like the SG R project we have to wait for official info publically - not all of us have  "someone we know, in the know"

    So we have to keep the discussiuon current. This thread has done that.


    BTW say hi to dodo !

    Regards,
    David Head
    Posted: 14 Apr 2016 11:48
      Showtime Chief Train Controller

    I have no problem with conjecture and speculation.
    This is an open forum afterall so you shouldn't expect much more than this.
    I enjoy reading what the latest rumour is and sometimes they are true.
    I hope the latest one above that the new boiler will go into 3830 is not correct though as this means 3801 will have a short limited life.
    Posted: 14 Apr 2016 12:14
      michaelgm Chief Commissioner
    Posted: 21 Apr 2016 23:50
      dthead Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    I have no problem with conjecture and speculation.
    This is an open forum afterall so you shouldn't expect much more than this.
    I enjoy reading what the latest rumour is and sometimes they are true.
    I hope the latest one above that the new boiler will go into 3830 is not correct though as this means 3801 will have a short limited life.
    Showtime
    To a degree a steam loco is like grandpa's axe.  While the boiler might have a limited life, it is just a short chapter in the life of the  overll loco, as  I'd hope a new boiler better made can be funded to replace the current boiler..... by that time.  

    Still Let's not forget 3830.

    Regards,
    David Head
    Posted: 22 Apr 2016 07:22
      michaelgm Chief Commissioner

    Based on the content, in the link I've posted above, at least in short term, 3830, is destined to become a big, green pigeon nest.
    Posted: 22 Apr 2016 08:06

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