V-Set replacement contract announced

 
  jcouch Assistant Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a commuter train
Just saw this pop up on the SMH front page. I can't find the old thread about the forums, hence the new thread.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/contract-for-new-trains-for-nsw-intercity-fleet-to-be-built-in-south-korea-20160818-gqv9rj.html

UGL-led consortium, built in Korea. $2.3b initial cost.

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  c3526blue Deputy Commissioner

Location: in the cuckoos nest
Oh dear!, more bad news,

We seem to be stuck in a 1980's time warp.  No tilting technology apparent despite the significant advantages that would be available over these three routes (Lithgow, Newcastle and Wollongong).  STRUG's lobbying has been ignored, typical.

Built offshore in Korea (off the shelf and cheapest price of course).  What will happen when the builders can't deliver to specification and will they be 'fit for service'?  I anticipate significant delays and commissioning problems to try and get the things to work properly on our system.

200 new jobs at Kangy Angy (south of Tuggerah) will be poor compensation for the hundreds of jobs lost overseas.

2.3B to 3.9B (optimistically) badly spent dollars for the NSW taxpayer later what will we have?

I'll bet Mr Constance is not around when these arrive, so of course won't be holding them to account (as promised).  What BS.

Happy commuting,

John

RIP the V sets.  You will be sadly missed!
  Spletsie Chief Commissioner

The NSW Opposition is already expressing dissatisfaction that they are being built overseas.
Are these the first Australian trains to be built in Korea?
  Jim K Train Controller

Location: Well west of the Great Divide in NSW but not as far as South Australia
Not defending building overseas, but I feel more confident of a good product from South Korea than the Waratah issues that came from China. BTW, not sure if Labor should be so vocal, the whole Waratah deal was Labor!

As for design: Cup holders and trays? How long will they last? It will be nice to have the USB chargers, but I also can see many not working after a while either.
  Jim K Train Controller

Location: Well west of the Great Divide in NSW but not as far as South Australia
Are these the first Australian trains to be built in Korea?
I believe so. Hyundai Rotem is the only builder I know of in Sth Korea for trains, but they seemed to have built a lot elsewhere:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Rotem
  Piston Train Controller

So what's the bet these new trains don't have tip over seats to all face the direction of travel, like the U sets had, like the G sets had, like the V sets have, and like the Oscars H sets have. (And all the current suburban sets have)

Remember when the XPT originally came out half the seats were facing backwards and opposition to these made them fit reversible seating to all the carriages.

I wouldn't like to be sitting facing an obnoxious person all the way from Hamilton to Sydney if they end up with two facing two seats. Please give us reversible seats.

The images of these new trains released so far have been selective to try and indicate they all face the one direction. Don't think so.
  mejhammers1 Deputy Commissioner

Oh dear!, more bad news,

We seem to be stuck in a 1980's time warp.  No tilting technology apparent despite the significant advantages that would be available over these three routes (Lithgow, Newcastle and Wollongong).  STRUG's lobbying has been ignored, typical.

Built offshore in Korea (off the shelf and cheapest price of course).  What will happen when the builders can't deliver to specification and will they be 'fit for service'?  I anticipate significant delays and commissioning problems to try and get the things to work properly on our system.

200 new jobs at Kangy Angy (south of Tuggerah) will be poor compensation for the hundreds of jobs lost overseas.

2.3B to 3.9B (optimistically) badly spent dollars for the NSW taxpayer later what will we have?

I'll bet Mr Constance is not around when these arrive, so of course won't be holding them to account (as promised).  What BS.

Happy commuting,

John

RIP the V sets.  You will be sadly missed!
c3526blue
Stuck in 1980's Time warp. Obviously you are not from Victoria. We still have rollingstock from the 1950's!!!

Michael
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Oh dear!, more bad news,

We seem to be stuck in a 1980's time warp.  

Built offshore in Korea (off the shelf and cheapest price of course).

RIP the V sets.  You will be sadly missed!
c3526blue

If you look at the images in the press release, they are 100% OSCARs - with a 2+2 fitout.  So I think I know which shelf they got the design off!
  bevans Site Admin
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

So what's the bet these new trains don't have tip over seats to all face the direction of travel, like the U sets had, like the G sets had, like the V sets have, and like the Oscars H sets have. (And all the current suburban sets have)

Remember when the XPT originally came out half the seats were facing backwards and opposition to these made them fit reversible seating to all the carriages.

I wouldn't like to be sitting facing an obnoxious person all the way from Hamilton to Sydney if they end up with two facing two seats. Please give us reversible seats.

The images of these new trains released so far have been selective to try and indicate they all face the one direction. Don't think so.
Piston
Stop speaking crap. They will be reversible. They are obviously modified OSCARS, narrower, and in 8 car sets as per the A sets. Nothing surprising here. Obviously not off the shelf except in so much they are an existing NSW design somewhat modified. Very sensible. Tilt trains up the mountains, not possible.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Oh dear!, more bad news,

We seem to be stuck in a 1980's time warp.  No tilting technology apparent despite the significant advantages that would be available over these three routes (Lithgow, Newcastle and Wollongong).  STRUG's lobbying has been ignored, typical.

Built offshore in Korea (off the shelf and cheapest price of course).  What will happen when the builders can't deliver to specification and will they be 'fit for service'?  I anticipate significant delays and commissioning problems to try and get the things to work properly on our system.

200 new jobs at Kangy Angy (south of Tuggerah) will be poor compensation for the hundreds of jobs lost overseas.

2.3B to 3.9B (optimistically) badly spent dollars for the NSW taxpayer later what will we have?

I'll bet Mr Constance is not around when these arrive, so of course won't be holding them to account (as promised).  What BS.

Happy commuting,

John

RIP the V sets.  You will be sadly missed!
Stuck in 1980's Time warp. Obviously you are not from Victoria. We still have rollingstock from the 1950's!!!

Michael
mejhammers1
You are a complete idiot. Go away.
  mejhammers1 Deputy Commissioner

Oh dear!, more bad news,

We seem to be stuck in a 1980's time warp.  No tilting technology apparent despite the significant advantages that would be available over these three routes (Lithgow, Newcastle and Wollongong).  STRUG's lobbying has been ignored, typical.

Built offshore in Korea (off the shelf and cheapest price of course).  What will happen when the builders can't deliver to specification and will they be 'fit for service'?  I anticipate significant delays and commissioning problems to try and get the things to work properly on our system.

200 new jobs at Kangy Angy (south of Tuggerah) will be poor compensation for the hundreds of jobs lost overseas.

2.3B to 3.9B (optimistically) badly spent dollars for the NSW taxpayer later what will we have?

I'll bet Mr Constance is not around when these arrive, so of course won't be holding them to account (as promised).  What BS.

Happy commuting,

John

RIP the V sets.  You will be sadly missed!
Stuck in 1980's Time warp. Obviously you are not from Victoria. We still have rollingstock from the 1950's!!!

Michael
You are a complete idiot. Go away.
nswtrains
@nswtrains If that is directed at me, I suggest that you take a bex and have a lie down!!!

Michael
  Jim K Train Controller

Location: Well west of the Great Divide in NSW but not as far as South Australia
The design has not been completed. Railconnet press statement stated:
"The passenger cars will be designed, manufactured, tested and commissioned by Hyundai Rotem, with Mitsubishi Electric Australia as technology provider and UGL supporting design and testing of their fleet."
The current pictures on NSW Government website is an 'artist impression' only. One is making assumptions that it will be a downsized OSCar, however that designed is not owned by Railconnect.  Fixed seating are the norm on most trains of this type around the world.
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
I wish they would have vestibules like the V sets and not the suburban design of the Oscars.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

Oh dear!, more bad news,

We seem to be stuck in a 1980's time warp.  No tilting technology apparent despite the significant advantages that would be available over these three routes (Lithgow, Newcastle and Wollongong).  STRUG's lobbying has been ignored, typical.

Built offshore in Korea (off the shelf and cheapest price of course).  What will happen when the builders can't deliver to specification and will they be 'fit for service'?  I anticipate significant delays and commissioning problems to try and get the things to work properly on our system.

200 new jobs at Kangy Angy (south of Tuggerah) will be poor compensation for the hundreds of jobs lost overseas.

2.3B to 3.9B (optimistically) badly spent dollars for the NSW taxpayer later what will we have?

I'll bet Mr Constance is not around when these arrive, so of course won't be holding them to account (as promised).  What BS.

Happy commuting,

John
c3526blue
Wow
Tilting technology = heaps $$$$, also means the trains have to be even narrower to fit in the loading gauge.  No where else in the world are interurban trains run using tilts.

South Korea is known for quality.  Don't be one of those people who complains that everything isn't done in australia.  We live on the planet earth, not the country of australia.  
Also jobs = $$$.   more jobs = more taxpayer money gone.
  V-Setcommuter Locomotive Fireman

Location: Blue Mountains
So what's the bet these new trains don't have tip over seats to all face the direction of travel, like the U sets had, like the G sets had, like the V sets have, and like the Oscars H sets have. (And all the current suburban sets have)

Remember when the XPT originally came out half the seats were facing backwards and opposition to these made them fit reversible seating to all the carriages.

I wouldn't like to be sitting facing an obnoxious person all the way from Hamilton to Sydney if they end up with two facing two seats. Please give us reversible seats.

The images of these new trains released so far have been selective to try and indicate they all face the one direction. Don't think so.
Stop speaking crap. They will be reversible. They are obviously modified OSCARS, narrower, and in 8 car sets as per the A sets. Nothing surprising here. Obviously not off the shelf except in so much they are an existing NSW design somewhat modified. Very sensible. Tilt trains up the mountains, not possible.
nswtrains
The seats are to have tray tables, so unless they are going to be spin around I don't see how the seats are going to be reversible
  Showtime Chief Train Controller

What is wrong with our governments!
These trains and any other new projects should be built here in Australia even if the cost is as high as double that of offshore.
Not only does it create jobs for the actual construction, it also creates growth and business for the associated industries such as steel and electrical.
The companies and people employed in all these jobs will be earning an income and therefore paying tax, as well as additional GST that is generated from their spending. People with income can then afford to purchase houses and luxury items again generating more stamp duty and GST for the government.

At the end of the day if the trains have cost a few million dollars more, the country has gained a lot more by keeping our economy fluid.

The visions our politicions have are so short sighted - save a some money now and forget about what the effect will be to the rest of the country
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

What is wrong with our governments!
These trains and any other new projects should be built here in Australia even if the cost is as high as double that of offshore.
Not only does it create jobs for the actual construction, it also creates growth and business for the associated industries such as steel and electrical.
The companies and people employed in all these jobs will be earning an income and therefore paying tax, as well as additional GST that is generated from their spending. People with income can then afford to purchase houses and luxury items again generating more stamp duty and GST for the government.

At the end of the day if the trains have cost a few million dollars more, the country has gained a lot more by keeping our economy fluid.

The visions our politicions have are so short sighted - save a some money now and forget about what the effect will be to the rest of the country
Showtime
Quick delivery is what is required and that is what will happen if built in Korea.
  SinickleBird Chief Train Controller

Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
Not defending building overseas, but I feel more confident of a good product from South Korea than the Waratah issues that came from China. BTW, not sure if Labor should be so vocal, the whole Waratah deal was Labor!

As for design: Cup holders and trays? How long will they last? It will be nice to have the USB chargers, but I also can see many not working after a while either.
Jim K
USB chargers will be awesome - just the right size and shape to accommodate chewed gum. I give these 2 return trips before they start being vandalised.
  M636C Minister for Railways

If the SMH illustrations are to be believed, they are (presumably narrower) Oscars with fixed seating on both decks, facing except for the central half bay in the two deck section. All the illustrations show cars of Millennium/Waratah/Oscar length.

Since Oscars already run to Hamilton and Kiama, presumably Northern and Illawarra passengers will be able to apply pressure for the older trains with more and reversible seats, while Western patrons are stuck with the new sets due to tunnel clearances.

If you have the choice of running otherwise similar trains with 2+2 or 2+3 searting at peak times, which will you run?

M636C
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

I have never understood sydneysiders demand for reversible seating.  Yes, the reversible seating is nice, but i would much rather a well built comfortable seat.  On reversible seats (the flip variant, not the spin around), many other factors like leg room, weight, and fabric have to be sacrificed to allow for the reversibility.

Sitting backwards isn't the end of the world, people do it for 3 hours an ICE or IMU100 from gympie to brisbane. (granted, the ICE is the most comfortable train in australia)

Fixed seats would allow for much greater comfort and durability.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
I have never understood sydneysiders demand for reversible seating.  Yes, the reversible seating is nice, but i would much rather a well built comfortable seat.  On reversible seats (the flip variant, not the spin around), many other factors like leg room, weight, and fabric have to be sacrificed to allow for the reversibility.

Sitting backwards isn't the end of the world, people do it for 3 hours an ICE or IMU100 from gympie to brisbane. (granted, the ICE is the most comfortable train in australia)

Fixed seats would allow for much greater comfort and durability.
tazzer96
You've never played 500 from Katoomba to Sydney...
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

My biggest question is whether they come in 4 car (80m), 5 car(100m) or 8 car (160m)  variants.  
And hopefully with this rollout they change the stupid bureaucratic rules on the 115km/h maximum speed within the sydney suburban area.  The western line between westmead and penrith and should have white speed boards of at least 130 km/h.  

(for those that don't know, OSCARS are allowed to travel on white speed boards up to 130km/h, when the blue speed board is at 115km/h and when outside the sydney area.)  I would presume that the new trains will have a similar rule.
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

I have never understood sydneysiders demand for reversible seating.  Yes, the reversible seating is nice, but i would much rather a well built comfortable seat.  On reversible seats (the flip variant, not the spin around), many other factors like leg room, weight, and fabric have to be sacrificed to allow for the reversibility.

Sitting backwards isn't the end of the world, people do it for 3 hours an ICE or IMU100 from gympie to brisbane. (granted, the ICE is the most comfortable train in australia)

Fixed seats would allow for much greater comfort and durability.
You've never played 500 from Katoomba to Sydney...
apw5910
I have done my fair share of long rail journeys, journeys on the "japanese subway" style sardine can that is the 3 car 7:25am ferny grove service.  And a 4 car blue mountains that is full by redfern.

Considering the new sets will be operating with less than 50% of the seats occupied for the majority of their service lives.  I believe that comfort should be the number 1 priority.  Even if that means facing backwards for some some or all of the journey.

We shouldn't have to bend everything so peak hour commuters get their way.

Also, as someone who has occasionally gotten the ICE from gympie to Brisbane, you under estimate how amazing tray tables and comfortable seats are for interurban trains.
  jibbonpoint Chief Commissioner

Location: Shoalhaven
What is wrong with our governments!
These trains and any other new projects should be built here in Australia even if the cost is as high as double that of offshore.
Not only does it create jobs for the actual construction, it also creates growth and business for the associated industries such as steel and electrical.
The companies and people employed in all these jobs will be earning an income and therefore paying tax, as well as additional GST that is generated from their spending. People with income can then afford to purchase houses and luxury items again generating more stamp duty and GST for the government.

At the end of the day if the trains have cost a few million dollars more, the country has gained a lot more by keeping our economy fluid.

The visions our politicions have are so short sighted - save a some money now and forget about what the effect will be to the rest of the country
Showtime
I think that this is exactly right. Apparently they "save" 25% $ for $. But they money returned to the economy via taxes(as Shotime has said) more employement (less centerlink) utilisation of fast becoming dated idle manufacturing equipment, the chance to utilise technology & learning for Fit for Future etc could well outweigh that difference.

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