Ethanol plant planned for Gheringhap

 
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
JimYarin - QR was very short of motive power in 2005 and as a result ended several non-core freight operations at the beginning of that year to free up resouces for the runaway coal boom. Bundaberg-Brisbane freight, coal trains to the Parkhurst (Rockhampton) lime works and the use of electric locos south of Gladstone, as well as the ethanol traffic all finished up within a few months of each other.
Sulla1
Now that is some strong evidence for gauge conversion.

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  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Interesting how customer business and customers productivity is not core business at QR and not all customers are treated equally. Smile
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Looking through the EIS, total tonnage processed is supposed to be 300,000t.  I doubt much of this would be railed in, considering the two factors, firstly that the local area (around 100km) would be able to truck that in, and secondly that there are very few rail connections that the plant could really use efficiently.  This becomes moreso once Murray Basin is completed.

Rail out sounds like a whole different game - extra loading for the current services can only be a good thing.

Im wondering why they are building 2 plants though - surely one large plant would be more efficient?  And both plants have slightly different supply chains.  Deni will road in/rail out (i predict) whilst Gherinhap would rail in/road out (again my prediction).
  HardWorkingMan Chief Commissioner

Location: Echuca
Looking through the EIS, total tonnage processed is supposed to be 300,000t.  I doubt much of this would be railed in, considering the two factors, firstly that the local area (around 100km) would be able to truck that in, and secondly that there are very few rail connections that the plant could really use efficiently.  This becomes moreso once Murray Basin is completed.

Rail out sounds like a whole different game - extra loading for the current services can only be a good thing.

Im wondering why they are building 2 plants though - surely one large plant would be more efficient?  And both plants have slightly different supply chains.  Deni will road in/rail out (i predict) whilst Gherinhap would rail in/road out (again my prediction).
james.au
One large plant may be cheaper to build but building 2 close to areas where the raw material is has some ongoing advantages such as
1) there is a need to bring in more tonnage of raw material than will be sent out in finished products so transport costs are cheaper
2) one major breakdown doesn't halt the entire production
3) natural disasters are less likely to affect both plants
4) smaller plants may get less opposition from NIMBYs (locals seeing the support for jobs in the local area)
5) being in 2 separate states and being treated as separate projects may qualify them for more money in grants and concessions than the extra costs involved.
6) There may be limits to the available technology meaning that to get the throughput they would need just as much equipment, operators, maintenance people etc.

The people investing the money to be building these things will be smart. they won't be wasting their investor's money.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
There will still be plenty of grain available on BG for the Deniliquin plant. Gheringhap will have both gauges available.  If the traffic is not destined for interstate then would both on BG be a better idea?
  HardWorkingMan Chief Commissioner

Location: Echuca
There will still be plenty of grain available on BG for the Deniliquin plant. Gheringhap will have both gauges available.  If the traffic is not destined for interstate then would both on BG be a better idea?
x31
Does it really matter what gauge it's on.  Unless they are buying their own rollingstock it doesn't matter to them.  I expect the Deniliquin line will be made standard gauge when they do the lines through Shepparton.  Echuca would end up a dual gauge yard for a while - Standard gauge from Toolamba and Deniliquin/Moulamein and broad gauge for Bendigo for the Velocities/ Passenger services.

These projects take years to build and get operational at full speed so there is plenty of time for rail operations to change between now and then
  VicRailNews Station Master

What is the status of this project?

Does @GheringhapLoop know?
  Operater Junior Train Controller

Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Hi Group,

In regards to this Project, I was wondering where it would B in Relationship to any Large Centers and will it B able to Connect into the Inter State System as such,
Thanks for any Information Available.

Operater,
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Seems the Ethanol Plant planned for the Deniliquin site will be entirely exported making rail an important option for the plant as the site is adjacent to the rail line. http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2014-02-28/deniliquin-ethanol-plant-2802/5290204

Question is where would it go for export?
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
old news
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
There is also this from June 2017 so what gives?

The article states

The ethanol facility expects to process locally grown wheat grain to make up to 115 megalitres of fuel grade ethanol every year.
The fuel can be used to make the more environmentally friendly E10 petrol for the domestic market. By-products from the ethanol processes include dried distillers grain, distillers syrup and liquid fertiliser which the company intends to sell nationally to the agricultural industry.



http://www.denipt.com.au/2017/06/05/5071/ethanol-plants-slow-progress

To my mind domestic and export would be involved and the amount of ethanol at 115,000,000 litres would make rail quite affordable.
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
Could be a case of a bi-weekly holding news over.

The Dongmun Greentec websites http://www.dongmungreentech.com.au & http://dongmungreentec.com are no longer available either.



My bet is that the project's dead in the water.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Hi,

I have spoken to those in the know about this venture and can provide the following to the group with more facts to come in the new year:

1. The company has acquired land in Deniliquin and Gheringhap this is correct. Both properties have been acquired because they are rail accessible.
2. The project is very much alive with much work done.
3. The plan is to commence work at the deniliquin site.
4. Once Deniliquin is established the plan is to then complete the Gheringhap site
5. The Koreans are most definitely involved and are presently in Australia.
6. Latest round of meetings in Deniliquin was late last week.
7. Rail is heavily featured in the plan as one would expect.
8. Plant output will be domestic and export
9. The group is already in discussions with a rail operator.
10. Expect some traction in the new year.
11. The early indications are Echuca Yard will be required account the amount of rail traffic and depot requirements.

I think you guys would agree this is a very interesting project and one which will bring long term traffic to the rail network.

Regards
Brian
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
But @bevans will It be on the superior Victorian gauge? for now at least......
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Where abouts is the site at Gherinhap can someone point to me?

(Sorry I would go trawl deeply like  usually do but I'm short on time at the present)
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
But @bevans will It be on the superior Victorian gauge? for now at least......
Dangersdan707
If they clean up the BG from North Geelong to Gerinhap then there will only be SG available.....

When is the plant expected to be up and running?  3yrs maybe?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
If they clean up the BG from North Geelong to Gerinhap then there will only be SG available.....

When is the plant expected to be up and running?  3yrs maybe?
james.au

There is no suggestion thus far there is any traffic between Deniliquin and Gheringhap.  The traffic is more than likley to be outbound traffic of ethanol from both plants and inbound grain to both plants.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
If they clean up the BG from North Geelong to Gerinhap then there will only be SG available.....

When is the plant expected to be up and running?  3yrs maybe?

There is no suggestion thus far there is any traffic between Deniliquin and Gheringhap.  The traffic is more than likley to be outbound traffic of ethanol from both plants and inbound grain to both plants.
bevans
Ok interesting.

I would suspect that most grain would be trucked in, especially DQN as this is in the middle of grain growing territory.  I don't know how many tonnes they are talking but there are plenty of sites that take around 100,000tpa that don't use rail so the cutoff for rail efficiency might be higher.

Ethanol from DQN (if exported) would make sense to rail down to PoM etc.  from Gherinhap, road might win out.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Ok interesting.

I would suspect that most grain would be trucked in, especially DQN as this is in the middle of grain growing territory.  I don't know how many tonnes they are talking but there are plenty of sites that take around 100,000tpa that don't use rail so the cutoff for rail efficiency might be higher.

Ethanol from DQN (if exported) would make sense to rail down to PoM etc.  from Gherinhap, road might win out.
james.au

Road would not want to win out on millions of litres of ethanol from gheringhap which would go interstate and export.  120 million litres per annum?
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Where abouts is the site at Gherinhap can someone point to me?

(Sorry I would go trawl deeply like  usually do but I'm short on time at the present)
james.au
Possibly answering my own question by looking up thread.  This might be the location

  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
That is the location.  One issue I have been thinking about overnight is how the ethanol would be unloaded from rail cars at a port.  I am not sure this actually happens in Australia?  Is it hard to do and how many cars could be accommodated at a single empty?

Could this be built at Geelong?

I also have a question around unloading of rail cars for domestic consumption.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Graincorp has liquid handling terminals though ethanol is probably a whole different kettle of fish compared to edible oils and other liquids.

Id wonder if they would 'contankerise' it instead - refer link.  It would probably depend on how it was going to be used at the end of the journey and if that would be more efficient with bulk feed or not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_container
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Interesting article on the ABC Rural webpage about the work going on in this sector

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-21/regional-australia-leads-development-of-biofuel-technology/9175804

Seems that the plan is not to use food grade materials but instead to use by product generated by various forms of agriculture.

The planned Hunter trial facility has funding from ARENA (renewable energy agency), Chinese backing and support fron the University of Newcastle.

With the volumes being sought Rail would have to play some part I would think especially as they are talking up the environmental credentials of the industry.

BG
  VicRailNews Station Master

How many litres in a tank car suitable for operation in Victoria?

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