Ad Met goings on -

 
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
It's been a while since there's been a general Ad Met infrastructure thread and as there are a few things happening at the moment I thought I'd open a thread.

Went down South Road the other day and noticed that work is well advanced on the grade separation of the Outer Harbour line, apparently due to happen in the January holiday period. It's a shame that they didn't decide to elevate a long section of line and do Park Terrace and the standard gauge flyover at the same time but oh well, at least there's one major crossing gone.

I also read somewhere that the Gawler electrification is due to start survey work before Xmas... or is this just another false start...!

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  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

It's a shame that they didn't decide to elevate a long section of line and do Park Terrace and the standard gauge flyover at the same time but oh well, at least there's one major crossing gone.
don_dunstan
That one will be done as a trench, not an elevated line, and will only start once Park Terrace is no longer serving as the main diversionary route for the T2T project.



I would not expect this to impact on the Adelaide-Salisbury electrification work which is scheduled to start during the 2017-18 financial year, as DPTI have already indicated in their choice of preferred option for the Oaklands grade separation (rail over road, with temporary tracks running alongside during construction) that they are open to using temporary electrification equipment.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
It's a shame that they didn't decide to elevate a long section of line and do Park Terrace and the standard gauge flyover at the same time but oh well, at least there's one major crossing gone.
That one will be done as a trench, not an elevated line, and will only start once Park Terrace is no longer serving as the main diversionary route for the T2T project.
justapassenger
That's going to make a long climb for the (presumably for a long time yet) 3000's.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Oh please, not this twaddle again!

All we're talking about here is a pair of short 250m ramps, and separated by over half a kilometre of flat track along the surface. This is thanks to the part of South Road underneath the rail bridge being lowered to allow for a lower-profile rail bridge.

That should be a piece of cake for the 3000/3100 DEMUs which have no trouble starting against sustained 1 in 45 grades on the Belair line, it's not like we're talking about the asthmatic Red Hens or the overgeared Jumbos.

Not only have the DEMUs been doing that for over 20 years, but they also manage to safely escape from the Goodwood Junction underpass every time despite the prophets of doom plastering this forum with posts claiming they would get stuck. The test runs at that underpass were so anticlimactic that you'd almost think the DPTI engineers had done the numbers beforehand or something.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Love the passionate response - certainly all true, 3000's have had no issues with the Belair line for decades, there's no reason to assume they won't cope with the newly undulating OH line.

On that topic, it's interesting to note around Melbourne that most of the older lines were built with very flat grades for the steam trains up until electrification commencing during WW1. Any work that's been done since has noticeably steeper grades ie the various level crossing removals that have occurred and the Darling-Glen Waverley line, the only major segment built post-electrification.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
I started a thread on the T2T rail overpass in July when TA released some closure dates for the Outer Harbor line
https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11384671.htm

There is also a DPTI animation clip on youtube



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzt6J71YUQU
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I started a thread on the T2T rail overpass in July when TA released some closure dates for the Outer Harbor line
https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11384671.htm

There is also a DPTI animation clip on youtube



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzt6J71YUQU
Pressman
Thanks, I had seen the T2T animation but not the one specifically on the overpass.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Interesting announcement from Premier Jay today about the extension of the tram line some 200m north of North Terrace - in addition to the extension down to the East End and the old Royal Adelaide site (ABC News).

I'm in two minds about this. The cynic in me suggests that it's a distraction from the issues we are presently experiencing as a state - but on the other hand there is a lot to like about the announcement. From the video (now on Youtube) it appears that the King William/North Terrace intersection will become a grand junction - which is good because it means that trams can be routed in any direction. I'm not entirely sure why they have stopped the extension before it reaches the Oval though, it might be better if it went a few hundred metres extra?

Also I'm not convinced that the East End extension is a really good use of money, I know that it is supposedly the first part of an eastern suburbs extension but personally I think it would be better if there was a new tram route down Currie/Grenfell St as that would appear to be more useful. Does anyone know where the trams that will serve the East End stop will originate from?

EDIT: State govt. video of the new extension/s here.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Rail crossings were mentioned up thread - are they as big an issue in Adelaide as they are in Melbourne?
  Lt. Commander Data Station Master

Location: Stobie Poll City (Adelaide).
How would you propose a tram goes down Grenfell and Currie Streets? Not like it's the main corridor for the O-Bahn and Hills. After the O-Bahn tunnel/ditch thing is finished it will be even busier. Unless it becomes a transport mall (which seems unlikely because of to large car parks on Grenfell) it would be complete traffic chaos. Even more than it already is, mind you.

The east routes (141/142/H20 series) wouldn't be so bad because they're probably the ones the tram will replace. Not forgetting the west routes (B10/117/118 etc) that also use this corridor.

So in conclusion, a good idea in theory, but not very practical. I'd say use Flinders and Franklin with links to the City Loop tram.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Oh please, not this twaddle again!

All we're talking about here is a pair of short 250m ramps, and separated by over half a kilometre of flat track along the surface. This is thanks to the part of South Road underneath the rail bridge being lowered to allow for a lower-profile rail bridge.

That should be a piece of cake for the 3000/3100 DEMUs which have no trouble starting against sustained 1 in 45 grades on the Belair line, it's not like we're talking about the asthmatic Red Hens or the overgeared Jumbos.

Not only have the DEMUs been doing that for over 20 years, but they also manage to safely escape from the Goodwood Junction underpass every time despite the prophets of doom plastering this forum with posts claiming they would get stuck. The test runs at that underpass were so anticlimactic that you'd almost think the DPTI engineers had done the numbers beforehand or something.
justapassenger
Asthmatic Red Hens they ran well and still continue to run well up hill and down dale in places. They ran for decades up to Belair as well and never had any trouble doing it. The jumbo's were a bit asthmatic on this run though always losing time between stations, but they were not really built for going up a line like that in the first place. The jumbo's were built really to use on express services on level lines.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
I went passed the site in a train yesterday and the bridge girders etc are being assembled on site for lifting into place. It looks like the bridge girders themselves will be steel though with a concrete deck poured after they are lifted into position.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
How would you propose a tram goes down Grenfell and Currie Streets?
Lt. Commander Data
Airport via Henley Beach Rd then Currie St/Grenfell St through to the Parade to eventually terminate Kensington Gardens or similar.

The current plan is for the the trams to follow some kind of circular route via North Terrace; I think a more direct route connecting one side of the city to the other would be better. The fact that it will traverse a very busy thoroughfare is exactly the reason why it should go that way - just a personal opinion.
  doyle Junior Train Controller

The city needs a figure 8 configuration for the tram line  

ie king William,  north terrace, pulteney, Angus, gouger, morphett

So all future lines can spin off the figure 8 to what ever direction is desired
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
With a 4 way junction and two tracks per leg this will have rails going everywhere. Lots of banging crashing and bumping going around the corner and a very expensive point set.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
The city needs a figure 8 configuration for the tram line  

ie king William,  north terrace, pulteney, Angus, gouger, morphett

So all future lines can spin off the figure 8 to what ever direction is desired
doyle
I understand the logic behind the circular "figure 8" design but it isn't convenient for short trips because it will take a meandering path... Just an observation.
With a 4 way junction and two tracks per leg this will have rails going everywhere. Lots of banging crashing and bumping going around the corner and a very expensive point set.
nm39
They obviously feel that the intersection will need it for future redundancy - there's a photo somewhere on the net of the original grand junction being installed at that intersection about 110 years ago so there has certainly been one there before.
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
They obviously feel that the intersection will need it for future redundancy - there's a photo somewhere on the net of the original grand junction being installed at that intersection about 110 years ago so there has certainly been one there before.
"don_dunstan"


Balaclava Junction in Melbourne is still such a place. 37°52'21.56"S 145° 1'29.01"E
  doyle Junior Train Controller

I understand the logic behind the circular "figure 8" design but it isn't convenient for short trips because it will take a meandering path... Just an observation.

Not as meandering as you suggest, short trips would be very possible ie RAH to the markets via Morphett or King William, and even via Pulteney St, South Western and South Eastern residents could easily get to Grenfell Currie and North Terrace via Morphett King William and pulteney plus the east west bus routes along Grenfell Currie sts, try to get from West terrace to Hutt St via Wakefield without changing busses. bus route 232 From Victoria Square via Wakefield pulteney North terrace then king William Rd serves a purpose from VIC square you could just as easily catch a Prospect or Main North Rd bus this is the same effect as a double track figure 8 situation
I would envisage trams entering the city showing via route A B C D E & F many combinations are possible it is a very effective method to deliver services to a grid type city such as Adelaide is if a street has a situation such as an emergency other routes are available so the system could be kept moving
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Balaclava Junction in Melbourne is still such a place. 37°52'21.56"S 145° 1'29.01"E
nm39
Is that the only grand junction in Melbourne? I have a feeling there is at least one more.
I would envisage trams entering the city showing via route A B C D E & F many combinations are possible it is a very effective method to deliver services to a grid type city such as Adelaide is if a street has a situation such as an emergency other routes are available so the system could be kept moving
doyle
Yeah I'm all for additional redundancy added to a tram system, but I just think that perhaps if you were travelling west to east or vice versa that perhaps there should be a direct route rather than a circuitous one - or perhaps the option of a direct route in addition to the circular one. In Melbourne CBD there is certainly both; maybe we shouldn't be too ambitious given that it's early days in the re-establishment of an Adelaide CBD network. It's interesting to imagine "what if" though.

Also, on the topic of "goings on" I noticed today that the OBahn works are progressing nicely with the tunnel roof being covered over when I caught a glimpse from Rundle Street.
  doyle Junior Train Controller

What ifs are great

what set of East West streets would you suggest?

Would some streets need to be converted to one way operation

Would Grenfell/Currie sts  
be to busy with bus routes to handle double tram tracks as well

Would Pirie/Waymouth be wide enough for double tracks or Flinders/Franklin be sufficient
Is this where people need to go?

the issue I see is that from North terrace down to south terrace every other street is quite narrow followed a wide street
  doyle Junior Train Controller

My God I really have to much spare time
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
What ifs are great

what set of East West streets would you suggest?

Would some streets need to be converted to one way operation

Would Grenfell/Currie sts  
be to busy with bus routes to handle double tram tracks as well

Would Pirie/Waymouth be wide enough for double tracks or Flinders/Franklin be sufficient
Is this where people need to go?

the issue I see is that from North terrace down to south terrace every other street is quite narrow followed a wide street
doyle
Grenfell/Currie is probably the most suitable thoroughfare in my opinion - historically it's where the western and eastern suburban tram services connected anyway but also the width in comparison to other streets lends itself to a two-way tram route quite nicely - maybe even within its own reservation. There's a lot of businesses and offices along that section so there's a lot of potential for short-trip generators along the way but also if the tram followed that route it would enable people coming from (for example) the airport to interchange with the majority of other transport routes that traverse the city north-south and complete their journey (buses, the King William St tram to the station).
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
South Road project going ahead in leaps and bounds during the Xmas break - Grange Rd and Port Rd bridges are currently being lowered into position and next week the Outer Harbour line will be closed until Australia Day in order to get the rail overpass done. I did see a massive crane on the road this weekend and I guess that's where it was headed?
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
South Road project going ahead in leaps and bounds during the Xmas break - Grange Rd and Port Rd bridges are currently being lowered into position and next week the Outer Harbour line will be closed until Australia Day in order to get the rail overpass done. I did see a massive crane on the road this weekend and I guess that's where it was headed?
don_dunstan
Port River bridge at Ethelton is also being replaced during the shutdown.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
South Road project going ahead in leaps and bounds during the Xmas break - Grange Rd and Port Rd bridges are currently being lowered into position and next week the Outer Harbour line will be closed until Australia Day in order to get the rail overpass done. I did see a massive crane on the road this weekend and I guess that's where it was headed?
don_dunstan
DPTI Animation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-9Wgu5f42Q

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