How the Cranbourne line can be duplicated

 
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

I have calculated how much it can cost for this project to happen.

Planning for project:
Cost a few million.

Construction new track;
10.5 km of new track to complement the single line cost 25-35 million dollars
The signalling would cost 10-15 million dollars
The Overhead wires cost 10-15 million dollars
Flyover at Cranbourne junction 5-10 million

New rebuilt stations
Rebuilt Upgrade Merinda park station cost 50-80 million
Relocate Cranbourne station on opposite side of South Gipsland Highway and rebuilt station cost 70-90 million

Grade seperations:
Greens Road, Camms road, Evans road and South Gisspland Highway grade separations cost 150-170 million
A new rail overpass at Abbot's Road cost 20-30 millions

Disruption on a active rail corridor (up to 6 months) cost ? millions

Total cost: 400-500 450+ million dollars (only rail upgrades, excludes new paths, landscaping and noise walls)

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  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
5, 4, 3, 2, 1.......
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

5, 4, 3, 2, 1.......
BrentonGolding
Why you reply 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...???
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Good on you James I see some thought into this bit when would you commence ?
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Good on you James I see some thought into this bit when would you commence ?
freightgate
Yes I had some thought and research to find the average costings of each component as part of the upgrade. The best date to do  start this project between (2018-2020) This is part of the overall plan to improve the South East corridor, which has already got funding for new trains, new signalling and longer stations, but has left out the Cranbourne rail duplication which would not cost much at all. Hoping the State Gov includes this important part to make sure you able run more of the high capacity trains via Cranbourne by removing the single track and remaining level crossings.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I have calculated how much it can cost for this project to happen.

Planning for project:
Cost a few million.

Construction new track;
10.5 km of new track to complement the single line cost 25-35 million dollars
The signalling would cost 10-15 million dollars
The Overhead wires cost 10-15 million dollars
Flyover at Cranbourne junction 5-10 million

New rebuilt stations
Rebuilt Merinda park station cost 50-80 million
Relocate Cranbourne station on opposite side of South Gipsland Highway and rebuilt station cost 70-90 million

Grade seperations:
Greens Road, Camms road, Evans road and South Gisspland Highway grade separations cost 150-170 million
A new rail overpass at Abbot's Road cost 20-30 millions

Total cost: 400-500 million dollars (only rail upgrades, excludes new paths, landscaping and noise walls)
James974
Cranbourne station should be integrated into the local shopping centre. Merinda Park Station apparently has some provisions for a second platform thus it wouldn't need much of a rebuild.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

April 1st is coming soon to a station near you..............
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Cranbourne station should be integrated into the local shopping centre. Merinda Park Station apparently has some provisions for a second platform thus it wouldn't need much of a rebuild.
railblogger
Good idea integrating with shopping centre similar unlike what happened at Ringwood station which doesn't quite connect but it adjacent to it. Yes bus interchanges and precinct upgrade can be included with the rebuild of Cranbourne station nearer to the South Gippsland Highway. But it cannot be right into the centre of the Shopping centre since that be near impossible. But moving the station closer to the retail area is all can be done.

Merinda Park Station needs shelters added across the station, a footbridge to link the platforms with a waiting room, stairs and ramps can link the entrances. There is a Pedestrian crossing at the station and without that removed it'll be more unsafe, people have to wait longer. This is a major upgrade to Merinda Park station and can really only be done properly if the old station and platforms were all rebuilt.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

April 1st is coming soon to a station near you..............
trainbrain
I have costed it out, It's a similar price paid for Mernda Rail link and the Dandenong upgrade itself cost Billions. Just an extra 400 million additional funds is much easier to find that this project stacks up and is likely to happen very soon. If they start planning for a few million then project can be completed as soon as 2021.
  ARodH Chief Train Controller

Location: East Oakleigh, Vic
Cranbourne station should be integrated into the local shopping centre.
railblogger
To do that would mean moving all of it a kilometer or so.

What style grade seperations,  road over rail, skyrail?
  True Believers Chief Commissioner


What style grade seperations,  road over rail, skyrail?
ARodH
Greens Road- rail over road or road over rail
Evans Road- Close road or Road over Rail
Camms Road- rail under road or elevated rail
South Gippsland Highway- rail under road or elevated rail
I'm not sure what style it would be yet, this is exactly what the planning is for. Planning stage involves investigating the options and listen to feedback by the community. This is why the costs may vary depending on what method of grade separation are used.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Cranbourne station should be integrated into the local shopping centre.
To do that would mean moving all of it a kilometer or so.

What style grade seperations,  road over rail, skyrail?
ARodH
Probably skyrail as that would be cheapest.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Cranbourne station should be integrated into the local shopping centre.
To do that would mean moving all of it a kilometer or so.

What style grade seperations,  road over rail, skyrail?
Probably skyrail as that would be cheapest.
No the cheapest grade separation option is  road over rail, Greens Road is in industrial precinct so that could happen. Skyrail or Trenches are both suitable at Camms Road and Gippsland Highway, Its not about cost, it is whether it is suitable in that location. If the community are against skyrail, then it will be trenches. If they don't mind or is not feasible to go trenches then skyrail will happen. This will be determined if the planning of this project ever goes ahead.
  drunkill Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne, Australia
If you're doing that you may as well re-open the line to Clyde given the growth in that area already and what is about to come (some 70,000+ houses in the next 4 years)

New station at Cranbourne East (although they have built housing on the land proposed for a station a few years ago in the Casey urban growth report, so it'd best be moved to Casey Fields to be near connecting buses) and Clyde, stabling built at end of line south of Ballarto road.
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
I have calculated how much it can cost for this project to happen.

Planning for project:
Cost a few million.

Construction new track;
10.5 km of new track to complement the single line cost 25-35 million dollars
The signalling would cost 10-15 million dollars
The Overhead wires cost 10-15 million dollars
Flyover at Cranbourne junction 5-10 million

New rebuilt stations
Rebuilt Merinda park station cost 50-80 million
Relocate Cranbourne station on opposite side of South Gipsland Highway and rebuilt station cost 70-90 million

Grade seperations:
Greens Road, Camms road, Evans road and South Gisspland Highway grade separations cost 150-170 million
A new rail overpass at Abbot's Road cost 20-30 millions

Total cost: 400-500 million dollars (only rail upgrades, excludes new paths, landscaping and noise walls)
Cranbourne station should be integrated into the local shopping centre. Merinda Park Station apparently has some provisions for a second platform thus it wouldn't need much of a rebuild.
railblogger
Just to clarify, Merinda Park not only has provision for a 2nd platform, to some extent it's already been built. Merinda Park platform is actually quite a wide area and from my observations it was deliberately built as an island platform with the 2nd platform on the western side already future proofed. All that needs to happen is the landscaping removed on the western side, track formation & overheads built and there it goes. I believe the road will be raised at this location as part of the Thompsons Rd duplication project so the level crossing will be gone soon. Duplication should technically be quick and easy here - although the station building needs a rebuild.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Why not consider duplication and extension to Tooradin Station road with new station and car park and some stabling area?
  Madjikthise Assistant Commissioner

Cranbourne station should be integrated into the local shopping centre. Merinda Park Station apparently has some provisions for a second platform thus it wouldn't need much of a rebuild.
Good idea integrating with shopping centre similar what happened at Ringwood station. Yes bus interchanges and precinct upgrade can be included with the rebuild of Cranbourne station nearer to the South Gippsland Highway. But it cannot be right into the centre of the Shopping centre since that be near impossible. But moving the station closer to the retail area is all can be done.

Merinda Park Station needs shelters added across the station, a footbridge to link the platforms with a waiting room, stairs and ramps can link the entrances. There is a Pedestrian crossing at the station and without that removed it'll be more unsafe, people have to wait longer. This is a major upgrade to Merinda Park station and can really only be done properly if the old station and platforms were all rebuilt.
James974
There is zero integration with the shopping centre at Ringwood.
  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
Why not consider duplication and extension to Tooradin Station road with new station and car park and some stabling area?
x31
Clyde has been mentioned as a possible new terminus and stabling area. Some concept plans exists for the Clyde Station & Stabling area (18 trains) and township.  From these documents it appears they are quite detailed. They date back to 2014:

Clyde Station & Stabling area: https://vpa.vic.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/PSP-54-Leongatha-Rail-Line-Peer-Review-Aurecon-Rev-1-FINAL-DRAFT-Appendix-2-10.pdf

Clyde Creek Township: https://vpa.vic.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/PSP54-Clyde-Creek-PSP.pdf

You would hope that any plans for this involve a full duplication of the Cranbourne line and a 4th platform at Dandenong.
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

I did a answer to this last night, and it disappeared when I hit post, so here's the short version!


A really common mistake when costing infrastructure is to not consider how it will be constructed - which makes a massive difference to the price.

It's completely different building an extension to Mernda or building brand new tracks between Deer Park and Little River (greenfield sites), when you compare it to building along an operating rail corridor where you only have a limited span of hours each night in which to construct.

So the costing that you have calculated is very, very low - and appears to be based on projects that were constructed outside an operating rail environment. Where work can proceed during the day and where the safety issues are different.

BUT....Cranbourne IS at the end of a line. So you could decide to close Dandenong - Cranbourne for six to twelve months, and construct it during the day. Lower costs, higher productivity. You wouldn't need to train people on working in a rail environment. You can decommission the signaling and overhead and re-commission it once the changes have been made.

If you did it after Pakenham East was constructed but before all the new trains were delivered then you'd have somewhere to store trains during the closure so that removes that issue.

So - be REALLY careful when you are trying to calculate costs. Remember the environment in which you build something massively impacts on the cost of the project. It's really important to consider whether you are trying to keep trains running during construction.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Revenue!  Where have you been?
  slowcoach Junior Train Controller

I think the return of the South Gippsland regional passenger and freight trains to Yarram, Wonthaggi, Tooraddin, Korumburra and Leongatha would be a more popular project amongst regional communities there. Don't you think?
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Clyde extension and Dandenong line quadruplication projects can happen after this duplication project is completed. "Revenue" makes a very good point about how costs of construction can be different depending on the environment and location not just on the methods used in construction. ("Revenue" could you fix the photo on your post, its blank) Yes I admit it have add a huge cost in terms of disruption and replacing services, but I didn't have that included it because it is something hard to put a price on. Also to clarify Merinda Park station doesn't need to be rebuilt just an upgrade, this is to provide new access points via a footbridge or underpass and a new waiting room.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Revenue!  Where have you been?
Valvegear

Is back!
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Revenue!  Where have you been?

Is back!
bevans
Is back from the dead.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Clyde extension and Dandenong line quadruplication projects can happen after this duplication project is completed. "Revenue" makes a very good point about how costs of construction can be different depending on the environment and location not just on the methods used in construction. ("Revenue" could you fix the photo on your post, its blank) Yes I admit it have add a huge cost in terms of disruption and replacing services, but I didn't have that included it because it is something hard to put a price on. Also to clarify Merinda Park station doesn't need to be rebuilt just an upgrade, this is to provide new access points via a footbridge or underpass and a new waiting room.
James974

I think you need to be planning for the entire works in one foul swoop.  You will need to shut the line down to deal with the changes so why not just roll on and get the Clyde extension done as has been suggested?

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