Centenary of the Opening of the Trans Australian Railway - Port Augusta

 
  M636C Minister for Railways

I'm not a member of Steamrail, but I reckon it would be a huge ask for them to get a train there. My thought is that they should stick to what they're very good at, which is tour trains around Victoria.
Valvegear

I was thinking of Steamrail making the vehicles available for a train to be worked by someone else (possibly GWA).

At least some of the cars had been stored in Dimboola at one stage. I'm not sure where they are right now.

I think SSR actually ran the C class train to Albury (or were heavily involved).

Peter

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  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Just

Our discussion never included getting the Overland consist to Port Augusta, rather spare IP cars.

We move on.............!

If a special train is needed, what about Rail Heritage NSW's "Southern Aurora"?

It would have to come from further away but it could be run from Adelaide to Port Augusta and back.

I would suggest that nine out of ten people watching wouldn't know the difference between that train and an IP set.

To haul it, you could, owners being willing of course, use SSR's GM27 and S317 which would do a good imitation of CLP class.

A little closer to home is Steamrail's standard gauge set of ex SAR cars now painted blue with gold lines as ran on the C Class tour from Melbourne to Albury. These spent many years running Adelaide to Port Pirie on the broad gauge connecting with most CR passenger trains. I don't think any matching S or B class are currently on SG (they are all working BG grain services).

Peter
M636C
I realise that it is all pie in the sky now but is GM 10 still around? (Probably the next best thing to GM 1.)
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Just

Our discussion never included getting the Overland consist to Port Augusta, rather spare IP cars.

We move on.............!

If a special train is needed, what about Rail Heritage NSW's "Southern Aurora"?

It would have to come from further away but it could be run from Adelaide to Port Augusta and back.

I would suggest that nine out of ten people watching wouldn't know the difference between that train and an IP set.

To haul it, you could, owners being willing of course, use SSR's GM27 and S317 which would do a good imitation of CLP class.

A little closer to home is Steamrail's standard gauge set of ex SAR cars now painted blue with gold lines as ran on the C Class tour from Melbourne to Albury. These spent many years running Adelaide to Port Pirie on the broad gauge connecting with most CR passenger trains. I don't think any matching S or B class are currently on SG (they are all working BG grain services).

Peter
I realise that it is all pie in the sky now but is GM 10 still around? (Probably the next best thing to GM 1.)
  M636C Minister for Railways

I realise that it is all pie in the sky now but is GM 10 still around? (Probably the next best thing to GM 1.)
YM-Mundrabilla

Yes, GM10 is still around and in working order.

It is still in the yellow and black SSR colour scheme. It appeared at the "Streamliners" event in Goulburn.
It may have run to Port Augusta as one of the locomotives to collect the coal wagons for SSR.

I suggested GM27 because it is in the later black nose scheme similar to the CLP colours (black substituting for green).

Back in 2000, GM10 had just been painted in the Great Northern red and maroon scheme.
Even the cab interior looked like an excellent museum exhibit.
It even had reproduction builder's plates. I've liked it ever since.
It has had its mesh grilles replaced by horizontal bar grilles applied to GM12 upwards.

But it would be good to have GM10 in PA for the day, although since SSR have done so much for railfans (the C class tour, Streamliners) it seems unfair to ask them to do more simply because GSR have different priorities.

If someone had the money to spare, it could be painted in CR colours, but that isn't SSR's problem.

On another subject, the special train for the Sod Turning was only five cars. It might be possible to find five crew cars spare for the day to carry a small party from Adelaide to Port Augusta. I'm sure some politicians and press could be encouraged to attend, just to raise the profile of the occasion.

Peter
  Train1959 Train Controller

Hi YM

I think Southern Shorthaul Railroad have a few GM's.  GM3, GM10, GM12, GM22 and GM27. Someone can correct me on this.
They only recently acquired GM3.

Anyway they are not going to come all this way just for a day.

We will have the older version GM on display in October. GM 40-47 were delivered throughout 1967, so they are 50 years old this year.
Might have a birthday cake made up for them!

The CL class went into service on the TAR between 1970-72. So they are getting on a bit these days. Hopefully one will be on display also.

The Australian National AL Class were delivered 1976-77 making them 40 years old this year. Another cake?

It is such a shame the Commonwealth did such a good job of scrapping almost their entire fleet of standard gauge steam locomotives.
At least G1 (or G2 depending upon who you speak to) survived.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
I'm not a member of Steamrail, but I reckon it would be a huge ask for them to get a train there. My thought is that they should stick to what they're very good at, which is tour trains around Victoria.

I was thinking of Steamrail making the vehicles available for a train to be worked by someone else (possibly GWA).

At least some of the cars had been stored in Dimboola at one stage. I'm not sure where they are right now.

I think SSR actually ran the C class train to Albury (or were heavily involved).

Peter
M636C
You still have the issues of accreditation and insurance. I doubt GWA are accredited to run passenger trains these days and they are definitely not insured to run passenger trains.

I don't think Steamrail has accreditation to run passenger trains interstate and their previous plans to do so were based on using the ARHS (ACT) accreditation, which of course is no longer available.
  Clyde Goodwin Junior Train Controller

So why not use GM1 which is sitting outback of Parkes Loco
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Hi YM

I think Southern Shorthaul Railroad have a few GM's.  GM3, GM10, GM12, GM22 and GM27. Someone can correct me on this.
They only recently acquired GM3.

Anyway they are not going to come all this way just for a day.

We will have the older version GM on display in October. GM 40-47 were delivered throughout 1967, so they are 50 years old this year.
Might have a birthday cake made up for them!

The CL class went into service on the TAR between 1970-72. So they are getting on a bit these days. Hopefully one will be on display also.

The Australian National AL Class were delivered 1976-77 making them 40 years old this year. Another cake?

It is such a shame the Commonwealth did such a good job of scrapping almost their entire fleet of standard gauge steam locomotives.
At least G1 (or G2 depending upon who you speak to) survived.
Train1959
Train1959,

Sorry to bore you and everyone else with yet another (my last by the way) rant on GM 1 and the Centenary of the Linking of the Rails on 17 October 1917.

Many on here and elsewhere are already painfully aware of my views on the tragedy of locomotive GM 1.
GM 1 was the greatest game changer in the rolling stock history of the Commonwealth Railways. For this class of loco there can be no substitute when it comes to anything to do with the Commonwealth Railways specifically and Australian Rail in general. It was a far more important asset than G 1 (or 2 or whatever).

Again, good luck and my very best wishes for the success of your celebrations at Port Augusta in October.

Regards
YM
  Train1959 Train Controller

So why not use GM1 which is sitting outback of Parkes Loco
Clyde Goodwin
What on earth is it doing there?

Does Rail Heritage WA have an update to what is happening with it.
  Train1959 Train Controller

Hi YM

Yes, I agree. GM 1 should be in SA. But unless Rail Heritage WA relinquish the right to it the old girl will go to Perth.

I remember there being an almighty discussion about it on the Railpage Forums a few years ago. Everyone had an opinion and it got quite heated after a while.

Rather than open old wounds we will just let it be. The government of the day made a decision. You can draw your own conclusion at that!  

The GM class and subsequent variations all around Australia signalled a monumental change in how railways were run in this country. Admittedly there were a few Alco loco variations as well but the EMD's were a force to be reckoned with just as they were in the USA.

My thought is that if we can preserved a few, no matter when they were built, it is a good thing. After all in 50 years GM 44 will be one hundred years old and people will marvel at a relic from a bygone era (assuming we preserve it).

So we should at least try to save what we can. GM 1 has been saved, let's hope it is done properly and for future generations.
  greasyrhys Chief Commissioner

Location: MacDonald Park, SA
Surely G$R are lying about having no spare carriages, as they would have plenty of Red Service vehicles available as they're no longer used on the Ghan or IP? They're simply not interested, I seriously hate that mob (G$R$)...
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Surely G$R are lying about having no spare carriages, as they would have plenty of Red Service vehicles available as they're no longer used on the Ghan or IP? They're simply not interested, I seriously hate that mob (G$R$)...
greasyrhys
If you are so worried about not having a choo choo available, you can always dip your hand into your own pocket and hire a train of some description using your money. But let me guess the bleeding obvious.
  Train1959 Train Controller

Guys, honestly I have moved on. I was disappointed for a while but I have much to organise so I am not dwelling on it.

GSR have  been generous, how many times do I have to say it!

Lots of companies and groups on board with hopefully a few more surprises to come.

Wishing everyone a safe and happy Easter. Nice weather for it.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
GSR have  been generous, how many times do I have to say it!
"Train1959"
You have to keep saying it until brats stop kicking and screaming, "I want more."
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Surely G$R are lying about having no spare carriages, as they would have plenty of Red Service vehicles available as they're no longer used on the Ghan or IP? They're simply not interested, I seriously hate that mob (G$R$)...
greasyrhys
Are you serious?
The Ghan had ONE Red sit up car, The Indian pacific had ONE Red sit up car, and I believe there was one spare that's a total of THREE which is NOT Plenty in anyone's book.
None of these carriages have turned a wheel in near on twelve months, so full servicing and bearing replacement would be needed.  You can't store a wagon for that length of time and simply pull it out and run it.

So you hate a company that tries to make a profit? So do you Hate Myers, K-mart, Target, On The Run, McDonalds, Hungry Jacks, etc. with the same seriousness?



As you and justapassenger  have not been involved with any of the negotiations, I'd say you have absolutely NO IDEA about how interested GSR are in assisting
  Train1959 Train Controller

In the weeks leading up to the 22nd of October I will be providing facts and figures about the Trans-Australian Railway. Numerous sources have been used including Monte Luke and NRM Adelaide publications.

FACT 1 - The Survey

The western end survey began on the 1st of July 1908. The eastern end survey left Adelaide on the 3rd of June 1908.

The western end survey consisted of 91 camels. The field work was completed on the 27th of September 1908 a distance of 455 miles.

The eastern section used 80 camels. The survey from Port Augusta to the WA border was completed 19th of March 1909 a distance of 608 miles.

Survey parties came under the control of Mr Anketell (western) and Mr J Furner (eastern).

The Surveyor-in-Charge used a prismatic compass to calculate course, waypoints and direction as well as taking stellar observations to check each day's work. The route was marked by a heavy chain drawn by camels.

It was determined that no tunnels would be required. It also concluded that no major bridges or major earthworks would be needed.
  M636C Minister for Railways

Surely G$R are lying about having no spare carriages, as they would have plenty of Red Service vehicles available as they're no longer used on the Ghan or IP? They're simply not interested, I seriously hate that mob (G$R$)...
Are you serious?
The Ghan had ONE Red sit up car, The Indian pacific had ONE Red sit up car, and I believe there was one spare that's a total of THREE which is NOT Plenty in anyone's book.
None of these carriages have turned a wheel in near on twelve months, so full servicing and bearing replacement would be needed.  You can't store a wagon for that length of time and simply pull it out and run it.
So you hate a company that tries to make a profit? So do you Hate Myers, K-mart, Target, On The Run, McDonalds, Hungry Jacks, etc. with the same seriousness?
As you and justapassenger  have not been involved with any of the negotiations, I'd say you have absolutely NO IDEA about how interested GSR are in assisting
Pressman
In fact GSR had EIGHT sitting cars, five AG class and three BG class. I think all the AGs were lettered for the IP and all the BGs were lettered for The Ghan. There were often two AGs on the IP between Adelaide and Sydney and in the early days at least, two BGs on the Ghan. So six cars would have been in regular service when two IPs were running. Of course, there may only have been four cars serviceable by mid last year when the sitting cars were withdrawn. Of course GSR probably don't want to remind politicians about sitting cars, since these were quite popular between Broken Hill and Adelaide, and to a lesser extent between Broken Hill and Sydney, so pointing out that they still had them might be regarded as a bad idea. In 2012, a sitting car was used on the special, if I recall correctly a Ghan BG which had an obsolete Ghan logo suggesting it hadn't been used for a couple of years at least.
  Train1959 Train Controller

So why not use GM1 which is sitting outback of Parkes Loco
Clyde Goodwin

This is a bit off the forum subject......

A few people have enquired about GM1. I found this entry on the Rail Heritage WA Facebook page dated a couple of months ago.

RHWA very owned prize possession GM1 is stabled at Gemco Parkes NSW depot after attending the 2016 Streamliners event at Goulburn Roundhouse.

She had been looked after by ARG/GWA at Dry Creek (SA) whilst owned by the Federal Government. When it passed to RHWA it was then maintained by CF Rail Services and now SSR and Gemco are looking after her at Parkes.

Someone then asks the question:  "Why is this loco taking so long to get here (WA)?

RHWA Answer: Considering options to have it returning in operating condition and you probably would have noticed that unlike Midland Workshops the Railway Museum doesn't actually have any standard gauge track yet - a very expensive project. But we are working on it.

It is fair to assume that this could be a long drawn out affair.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
RHWA Answer: Considering options to have it returning in operating condition and you probably would have noticed that unlike Midland Workshops the Railway Museum doesn't actually have any standard gauge track yet - a very expensive project. But we are working on it.
"Train1959"
Stand by for the inevitable bright-spark answer of "just buy some broad gauge/narrow gauge bogies and put it on those." Some genius will say it.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
In fact GSR had EIGHT sitting cars, five AG class and three BG class. I think all the AGs were lettered for the IP and all the BGs were lettered for The Ghan. There were often two AGs on the IP between Adelaide and Sydney and in the early days at least, two BGs on the Ghan. So six cars would have been in regular service when two IPs were running. Of course, there may only have been four cars serviceable by mid last year when the sitting cars were withdrawn. Of course GSR probably don't want to remind politicians about sitting cars, since these were quite popular between Broken Hill and Adelaide, and to a lesser extent between Broken Hill and Sydney, so pointing out that they still had them might be regarded as a bad idea. In 2012, a sitting car was used on the special, if I recall correctly a Ghan BG which had an obsolete Ghan logo suggesting it hadn't been used for a couple of years at least.
M636C
All of which is GSR's businesss, and nobody else's.
I'd better not say much about the other poster who accused GSR of lying; I may become a little less than good-mannered if I do.
  Train1959 Train Controller

RHWA Answer: Considering options to have it returning in operating condition and you probably would have noticed that unlike Midland Workshops the Railway Museum doesn't actually have any standard gauge track yet - a very expensive project. But we are working on it.
Stand by for the inevitable bright-spark answer of "just buy some broad gauge/narrow gauge bogies and put it on those." Some genius will say it.
Valvegear
As I said I don't want to get to off subject here but I did read/hear somewhere that Rail Heritage WA were hoping for some government assistance (they run a State Lottery that can be used for such causes or more public donations).

The fact that it got to Parkes means they can at least get it back to WA. This of course depends upon it having survived the trip to Goulburn, I am assuming it is ok. They would then have to find the money to get it back to WA. Hopefully one of the rail groups can haul it back for them. Maybe they could park it at Midland or even better Port Augusta!
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
From what i read in the GSR Platform magazine a few years ago, GSR had 9 red seat cars.

3 red service cars are used on the overland.
2 red premium cars are used on the overland.

2 red service cars were used on the Ghan.
2 red service cars were used on the Indian Pacific.
  Train1959 Train Controller

In the weeks leading up to the 22nd of October I will be providing facts and figures about the Trans-Australian Railway. Numerous sources have been used including Monte Luke and NRM Adelaide publications.

FACT 2 / 100 - Names, Supplies, Water and where are the people?

Prior to the name of the Trans-Australian Railway the railway was referred to as the "Western Railway" as well as the "East-West Railway".

Over the entire 1,053 mile / 1,695 kms of the railway there was no permanent surface water.

At the time that construction commenced at least 800 miles or 1,287 kms of the route was entirely uninhabited by white settlers.

The organisation of the building of the line and the welfare of the workforce was like no other project undertaken in the country at the time. The Department had to include all necessities for the workman and subsequently their families.

Services included boarding houses, postal, telegraph and banking services, medical and field hospital facilities along with food and water supplies for the entire workforce.

The highest point on the railway is situated 107 miles or 170 kms east of Kalgoorlie at 1,354 feet or 412.7 metres above sea level.

The average rainfall is between 7 - 8 inches or 178 - 203 mm per year.
  Train1959 Train Controller

FACT 3 / 100 - Staff Numbers, Turning of the First Sod, Rail Orders and nothing much happening!

On the 1st of January 1912 the railways had just one employee namely Engineer-in-Chief Henry Deane who was based in Melbourne.

On the 14th of September 1912 the "Turning of the First Sod" ceremony was performed at Port Augusta by the Governor-General, Lord Denman. A message of congratulations was received from His Majesty King George V.

A similar celebration took place in Kalgoorlie on the 12th of February 1913 which was performed by Prime Minister Andrew Fischer.

By the 30th of September 1913 Staff Employees numbered 64 and Construction numbers stood at 797.

During that time the first contract orders for rail were placed.
Elder Smith and Sons along with R W Cameron were to import 16,810 tons each from the United States.
G & C Hoskins of Lithgow NSW 16,238 tons.
Subsequent orders of 37,190 and 12,500 tons were placed with Elder Smith in conjunction with Geo Smith for rail manufactured in England.
The total amount represented 99,548 tons enough to cover 692.4 miles or 1,114 kms.

At the 30th of September 1913 the railhead was only 6 miles from Kalgoorlie and 10 miles from Port Augusta.
In fairness a large amount of work had been completed in both depots by this time.
Also the Roberts tracklayers were not in operation yet. These commenced in October 1913 (east) and November 1913 (west).

Information: "Riders of the Steel Highways" - Monte Luke
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Thanks for your continuing information, Train1959; it is fascinating to read.

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