Dumb and dumber - weights, measures and language

 
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
You might even consider that I chose arbitrary to be non whimsical.

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  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Graham, I think you’ll find I am the misunderstood, not yourself, read what I posted about volumetric measurement of rain...

Also, arbitrary has a meaning, in keeping with what I posted about the measurement of rain I used arbitrary because - well, it was the perfect word.
Aaron
Ok, so you wrote:

Surprised no one has expressed concern that rain is predicted/measured in a lineal measurement rather than a volumetric or measurement of mass - which you would confuse with weight anyway.
Aaron
I'm now asking how you would suggest implementing the proposed alternative(s).
  Sydney Yard Station Staff

i wa under the impression " raining Cats & Dogs " was a unit of measurement !
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
i was under the impression " raining Cats & Dogs " was a unit of measurement !
Sydney Yard
It is  and it is also one that I understand.
Graham and Aaron lost me ages ago!Smile
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
i was under the impression " raining Cats & Dogs " was a unit of measurement !
Sydney Yard
Raining cats and dogs is one sort of storm but hailing taxis is something different  (pun intended)
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Time is now measured in 'traffic light cycles' on Channel 9.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Time is now measured in 'traffic light cycles' on Channel 9.
YM-Mundrabilla
I'm sure that I am not the only one to complain "it took me three sets of lights to cross that intersection"
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
Reminds me of a great innovation I saw whilst in the NT last year. With temporary traffic lights for roadworks, the yellow light is a countdown timer to green. This should be implemented for all such lights.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Quite common overseas.

I don't think it would be appropriate here until something is done about raising both the standard of driver training and the level of maturity required to be awarded a licence.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
In Europe the count down to colour change, it’s not only on red lights but also for green is very handy.

It red to green let’s you know whether you’ll actually have to pull to a stop, or simply coast and get a green. Green to red lets you know that you can stop maintaining speed and begin coasting/slowing because you know you won’t make the green and have to stop for the red. The yellow during the red where this isn’t implemented just ahead of the green is also quite handy, something I never understood until I began regularly travelling in Europe to gain an understanding of.

In Australia of course it would be used by fools who have no concept of time to arrive at the intersection at the exact moment another user gains permission to legitimately enter the crossing, likely causing death and destruction, most likely of the legitimate user.
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
It red to green let’s you know whether you’ll actually have to pull to a stop, or simply coast and get a green.
Aaron
My language history interest caused this post; The term 'pull up', meaning to stop, is in common every day usage and I suspect it dates back to horse and carriage where the horse reins are pulled to slow or stop the horse. Maybe also referring to pulling on the brake handle beside the horse carriage driver to operate the manual brake blocks. Maybe similar manual brake lever on early motorised vehicles as well.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
What would an RP thread be without at least a scenic tour through some off topic areas? Petan, I think the etymology of ‘pull up’ in terms of slowing or stopping a vehicle must come from the idea of horse teams driven by reins moreso than hand applied brakes; hand applied brakes would be a good start, but then consider the origins of ‘pull over’ or ‘pull in’ perhaps in terms of a carpark.

For what it’s worth, my femtofortnight (have to toss in an odd time measurement to maintain some relevance) of thinking on this is that these terms derived from actions on role hauled shipping/watercraft in port. These being ‘pulled’ up to, in to and over to docks and similar.
  petan Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting to see a zebra using a zebra crossing!
What would an RP thread be without at least a scenic tour through some off topic areas? Petan, I think the etymology of ‘pull up’ in terms of slowing or stopping a vehicle must come from the idea of horse teams driven by reins moreso than hand applied brakes; hand applied brakes would be a good start, but then consider the origins of ‘pull over’ or ‘pull in’ perhaps in terms of a carpark.

For what it’s worth, my femtofortnight (have to toss in an odd time measurement to maintain some relevance) of thinking on this is that these terms derived from actions on role hauled shipping/watercraft in port. These being ‘pulled’ up to, in to and over to docks and similar.
Aaron
Interesting thoughts Aaron and I'll won't reveal if I agree or disagree with your particular thoughts on this pull up matter. By the way, Aaron, this whole thread is all about the use  or misuse of language, especially by the media and similar, thus both my post and your reply are equally on topic or equally off topic, take your pick...
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

It red to green let’s you know whether you’ll actually have to pull to a stop, or simply coast and get a green. Green to red lets you know that you can stop maintaining speed and begin coasting/slowing because you know you won’t make the green and have to stop for the red. The yellow during the red where this isn’t implemented just ahead of the green is also quite handy, something I never understood until I began regularly travelling in Europe to gain an understanding of.
Aaron

We used to have a red-yellow sequence before the green, at least here in Victoria. It was around when I first started driving 50+ years ago.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
We used to have a red-yellow sequence before the green, at least here in Victoria. It was around when I first started driving 50+ years ago.
duttonbay
Indeed we did.
We also had other variations on the theme. In Bridge Road Richmond, the standard lights were augmented by a clock style machine with one arm rotating over a circle with one red and one green section. (I'm blowed if I can remember whether there was an amber section). This gave drivers a good indication of when each colour change would occur.
In Geelong, there were lights consisting of illuminated horizontal bars; I think four bars each per red and green colour. The bars would lose their illumination sequentially, and again, give an indication of how much time was left.

I do know that the Bridge Road rotary sets were pulled down because it was said that it encouraged drivers to race in an attempt to beat the light change.
The Geelong lights were changed to conventional types purely for the sake of uniformity across the State.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
We used to have a red-yellow sequence before the green, at least here in Victoria. It was around when I first started driving 50+ years ago.
Indeed we did.
We also had other variations on the theme. In Bridge Road Richmond, the standard lights were augmented by a clock style machine with one arm rotating over a circle with one red and one green section. (I'm blowed if I can remember whether there was an amber section). This gave drivers a good indication of when each colour change would occur.
In Geelong, there were lights consisting of illuminated horizontal bars; I think four bars each per red and green colour. The bars would lose their illumination sequentially, and again, give an indication of how much time was left.

I do know that the Bridge Road rotary sets were pulled down because it was said that it encouraged drivers to race in an attempt to beat the light change.
The Geelong lights were changed to conventional types purely for the sake of uniformity across the State.
Valvegear
All perfectly correct Valvegear and Duttonbay.

On at least some of the clock face lights there was an amber segment before the red. I don't recall one such before the green. There was also a light of appropriate colour in the arm of, again, at least some of these lights.

To my mind these lights did not encourage drivers to beat the lights but rather be able to judge their speed/position more accurately. It is interesting that there are proposals to put a time indication on some pedestrian lights in the CBD. These are very common in Europe.

I see the advantages/disadvantages of amber before the green on current lights as follows:

Advantages -
Time for drivers to wake up - traffic light cycles are often so long that drivers become distracted
Time for drivers to stop texting and put down phone

Disadvantages -
An alert driver might set off instantly the light turns green which will certainly ensure that they are killed by someone running the red light in the other direction
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

It is interesting that there are proposals to put a time indication on some pedestrian lights in the CBD. These are very common in Europe.
YM-Mundrabilla
DPTI has been installing countdowns on pedestrian crossings in Adelaide for a couple of years now, using a design with the orange LEDs for the digits in the same head as the red LEDs for the red man (or red trans woman exercising her/their right to wear trousers).

I've personally noticed quite a few in the CBD and a couple in the suburbs so far.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
'... red LEDs for the red man. '
The professionally offended are complaining about 'the red man' - that want a red woman.

Everything else here in Wictoria is perfect and we cannot find anything else to worry about.

Short while ago Special K breakfast food started labelling the box with 'Created for Women'. Didn't last long as apparently men stopped eating it - presumably they didn't want to grow boobs.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

See above
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
On at least some of the clock face lights there was an amber segment before the red. I don't recall one such before the green. There was also a light of appropriate colour in the arm of, again, at least some of these lights.
YM-Mundrabilla
Thanks; I couldn't for the life of me remember the amber. I also clean forgot the light on the arm; your memory is better than mine.

To my mind these lights did not encourage drivers to beat the lights but rather be able to judge their speed/position more accurately.
YM-Mundrabilla
Now the problem we have here is that YM is speaking about sensible drivers reading the lights properly. Unfortunately, the idiot fringe got to work and stuffed it by racing, and my comment about the removal was, in fact, the (ahem) "official" version.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
I see the advantages/disadvantages of amber before the green on current lights as follows:

Advantages -
Time for drivers to wake up - traffic light cycles are often so long that drivers become distracted
Time for drivers to stop texting and put down phone

Disadvantages -
An alert driver might set off instantly the light turns green which will certainly ensure that they are killed by someone running the red light in the other direction
YM-Mundrabilla

Under "advantages" you are encouraging illegal mobile phone use!
Under "disadvantages" are you ignoring the approx 3 sec delay between red and green in the other direction? Also when proceeding on a green light drivers should ensure the intersection is clear.

I don't think we need yellow before green (as they have in the UK still). It would seem to be counter productive. When the light is green you go (with due diligence), simple. Actually, where possible. I look for the red in the opposite direction, count to 3, then go... Wink
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Something is no longer 'fantastic' it is 'fantastical'.

The latest group of Corona virus people from Wuhan are apparently going to an 'unused' mining camp at Howard Springs.

Howard Springs is not only 'outside Darwin' it is 'outside OF Darwin'. I assume that the camp is 'disused' rather than 'unused' as, presumably, it was not built with a quarantine centre in mind just for fun.

Not to worry it is probably only some child journalist at the ABC.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
I assume that the camp is 'disused' rather than 'unused' as, presumably, it was not built with a quarantine centre in mind just for fun.
YM-Mundrabilla
Perhaps it was built to be used but just hasn't been used yet... Wink
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
What would an RP thread be without at least a scenic tour through some off topic areas? Petan, I think the etymology of ‘pull up’ in terms of slowing or stopping a vehicle must come from the idea of horse teams driven by reins moreso than hand applied brakes; hand applied brakes would be a good start, but then consider the origins of ‘pull over’ or ‘pull in’ perhaps in terms of a carpark.

For what it’s worth, my femtofortnight (have to toss in an odd time measurement to maintain some relevance) of thinking on this is that these terms derived from actions on role hauled shipping/watercraft in port. These being ‘pulled’ up to, in to and over to docks and similar.
Interesting thoughts Aaron and I'll won't reveal if I agree or disagree with your particular thoughts on this pull up matter. By the way, Aaron, this whole thread is all about the use  or misuse of language, especially by the media and similar, thus both my post and your reply are equally on topic or equally off topic, take your pick...
petan
No, don't get me wrong, that was no criticism, I generally take some pride to derail topics if there is a way! I actually forgot that the topic mentioned language.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Graham, I think you’ll find I am the misunderstood, not yourself, read what I posted about volumetric measurement of rain...

Also, arbitrary has a meaning, in keeping with what I posted about the measurement of rain I used arbitrary because - well, it was the perfect word.
Ok, so you wrote:

Surprised no one has expressed concern that rain is predicted/measured in a lineal measurement rather than a volumetric or measurement of mass - which you would confuse with weight anyway.
I'm now asking how you would suggest implementing the proposed alternative(s).
Graham4405
It's already implemented, it's just not derived. Indeed there is already an arbitrary 'area' over which the linear measurement for rainfall is captured, mass and volume are trivial to derive from this - we just don't.

In fact I have built a small weather station at my house, which is monitored/logged by an ATMEL device (think Arduino but more sophisticated), it measures rainfall by mass, then derives the reverse linear measurement for reporting. Similarly, the anemometer measures in RPM, and direction is sourced from a vane, both are then used to derive wind velocity.

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