The option of course could be to have an am service start from Wagga Wagga and run to Albury and return but continue on to Sydney basically as the old Riverina Exp, at the same time a daylight service ex Sydney to run to Albury as the return commuter in the afternoon, then return to Wagg Wagga and stable O/night to commence the next morning.Agreed, the only way for this idea to be even remotely viable IMO is for it to be an extension of an existing service. Wagga > Albury > Melbourne seems the most logical here but as already stated it makes no sense for Victoria to subsidise a service into NSW that has little benefit to it.
Even there the problem that may arise is the end that gets a too early start and too late a finish home.
Some pax would of course continue on to Melbourne as many people in that area travel to Melb instead of Sydney but you would need Vlocity or other trains stabled at Wagga, crews etc etc and NSW would need to front the $$$ for some of it and they are unlikely to want to hand that over to the Vics.
Our good old State bases Federal political system strikes again!
BG
I have no problems with an Xplorer service from Junee to Melbourne. Merge Opal and myki readers in NSW and Victoria so you can use either payment system in either state and get both state governments talking post new XPT regional train. NSW trainlink running Xplorers from southern NSW to Melbourne would remove the N classes from the NE and might even be able to provide more frequent services.
...that's a form of torture that cannot be supported...imagine the media when word gets out about the hard seats compared to the OLD comfy seats in the quiet XPT. 
MikeThe option of course could be to have an am service start from Wagga Wagga and run to Albury and return but continue on to Sydney basically as the old Riverina Exp, at the same time a daylight service ex Sydney to run to Albury as the return commuter in the afternoon, then return to Wagg Wagga and stable O/night to commence the next morning.Agreed, the only way for this idea to be even remotely viable IMO is for it to be an extension of an existing service. Wagga > Albury > Melbourne seems the most logical here but as already stated it makes no sense for Victoria to subsidise a service into NSW that has little benefit to it.
Even there the problem that may arise is the end that gets a too early start and too late a finish home.
Some pax would of course continue on to Melbourne as many people in that area travel to Melb instead of Sydney but you would need Vlocity or other trains stabled at Wagga, crews etc etc and NSW would need to front the $$$ for some of it and they are unlikely to want to hand that over to the Vics.
Our good old State bases Federal political system strikes again!
BG
I have no problems with an Xplorer service from Junee to Melbourne. Merge Opal and myki readers in NSW and Victoria so you can use either payment system in either state and get both state governments talking post new XPT regional train. NSW trainlink running Xplorers from southern NSW to Melbourne would remove the N classes from the NE and might even be able to provide more frequent services.
Surely you can't be serious
I had no idea how cr@p those Xplorers were till I did my brief 25 min sprint from Mt Victoria to Katoomba last year.
Noisier than the air-con units of a VLocity.
Numbum after 25 mins in the train...the poor souls who travel from Bathurst have no idea how bad these cars are because they know no different.
Junee to Melbourne
Mike.
This would be correct for the reasons already mentioned in this thread. There is though a definite case to extend the VLine Melbourne Albury service to Wagga. This though would require something like a 6 car VLocity. such a service would only take around 45 minute longer from Wagga than the current N class service from Albury. Such a serivce would allow a decent amount of traffic between Wagga and Albury for things like appointments and accessing occasionally required services.Would there be demand for XPT capacity between the cities of Wagga and Albury.No
Would there be demand for XPT capacity between the cities of Wagga and Albury.
Mike
Thank you for that report shows that I am not the only person that had issues with them, unless the cars are different, and I was riding in first class on the Northern Tablelands service.
My big hope is that when the replacement trains arrive it will be with updated XPT style trains rather than then noise boxes, also before any contract is decided on/signed they need to get every politician and force them to ride in an XPL set from Sydney to Armidale and return, just a bog standard set with nothing extra done to them so they get the feel that paying customers have to endure. I guess though they will all give it a tick as that is what they do best.
No offence guys. But some of the thinking expressed here is exactly the type of thinking that has caused the massive decline in our rural rail service network.Mate, I agree with your sentiments however its very much 19th & early 20th century thinking.
I lived in a city in Germany that is smaller than Wagga and it had it's own suburban rail network.
Sydney is bursting. Now with the exception of Newcastle which could rely on rebuilding the old coal corridors, cities like Albury, Wagga, Armidale, Tamworth are going to need to expand.
As such any future services should be based around on what will be needed in 50 years and not what current demand requires.
Of course Australian's would need to understand that the cost of our public transport is insanely cheap compared to world prices.
No offence guys. But some of the thinking expressed here is exactly the type of thinking that has caused the massive decline in our rural rail service network.The airplane, new motorways and steam age alignments is what has caused the massive decline in rural rail in NSW. I see a future for Junee to Albury railway services because of the line being quite straight and there being 100,000 people in those 2 cities. It would probably have to wait until the new regional rolling stock is operational to free up some xplorer's.
One also needs to remember back in the 1850's, the railways was the then revolutionary method of transport that completely revolutionised society as road transport would following the 1st world war. Sadly our leaders including nearly all of the current politicians and VLine management STILL think of its as old fashioned governement run service and do NOT see at all, its (railways) ability to provide a long term saving of VERY valuable resources, particularly light crude oil.No offence guys. But some of the thinking expressed here is exactly the type of thinking that has caused the massive decline in our rural rail service network.Mate, I agree with your sentiments however its very much 19th & early 20th century thinking.
I lived in a city in Germany that is smaller than Wagga and it had it's own suburban rail network.
Sydney is bursting. Now with the exception of Newcastle which could rely on rebuilding the old coal corridors, cities like Albury, Wagga, Armidale, Tamworth are going to need to expand.
As such any future services should be based around on what will be needed in 50 years and not what current demand requires.
Of course Australian's would need to understand that the cost of our public transport is insanely cheap compared to world prices.
You have to remember that the founder of this state and rail system had clear visions for the future that included all of the state, today, the only vision is centred around densely populated capitals, based on their own dense internal thinking. They cannot see much past this decade, if they can see that far, let alone in 50 years time.
Woody, no disagreement with me in what you say, and your comment re the Vic governments attitude is no different to any other one, we have PM who promotes the virtue of rail and the PT component yet outside the ILR project the money goes to suburban areas, along with massive amounts into the road networks while that benefits motorists it benefits the trucking industry to a greater degree.One also needs to remember back in the 1850's, the railways was the then revolutionary method of transport that completely revolutionised society as road transport would following the 1st world war. Sadly our leaders including nearly all of the current politicians and VLine management STILL think of its as old fashioned governement run service and do NOT see at all, its (railways) ability to provide a long term saving of VERY valuable resources, particularly light crude oil.No offence guys. But some of the thinking expressed here is exactly the type of thinking that has caused the massive decline in our rural rail service network.Mate, I agree with your sentiments however its very much 19th & early 20th century thinking.
I lived in a city in Germany that is smaller than Wagga and it had it's own suburban rail network.
Sydney is bursting. Now with the exception of Newcastle which could rely on rebuilding the old coal corridors, cities like Albury, Wagga, Armidale, Tamworth are going to need to expand.
As such any future services should be based around on what will be needed in 50 years and not what current demand requires.
Of course Australian's would need to understand that the cost of our public transport is insanely cheap compared to world prices.
You have to remember that the founder of this state and rail system had clear visions for the future that included all of the state, today, the only vision is centred around densely populated capitals, based on their own dense internal thinking. They cannot see much past this decade, if they can see that far, let alone in 50 years time.
One will NEVER convince me that 50 separate grain trucks and trailers are a viable long term replacement for a single 2000 ton grain train.
woodford
No offence guys. But some of the thinking expressed here is exactly the type of thinking that has caused the massive decline in our rural rail service network.The airplane, new motorways and steam age alignments is what has caused the massive decline in rural rail in NSW. I see a future for Junee to Albury railway services because of the line being quite straight and there being 100,000 people in those 2 cities. It would probably have to wait until the new regional rolling stock is operational to free up some xplorer's.
Was that little town in Germany on a rail line in between 2 much larger towns?
I don't believe passenger services are marketed properly, de corporatizing CL was a backward step.
The public need to know what is available as an alternative to driving.
I don't believe passenger services are marketed properly, de corporatizing CL was a backward step.
The public need to know what is available as an alternative to driving.
Why?
The car is much more convenient and faster with much more efficient vehicles being sold and the possibility that within 20 years only electric cars will be sold and so the environmental issue will no longer be a factor. Trains make sense in heavily populated areas like Sydney because if we didn't have them the traffic would be gridlocked 24/7.
Australia is not Europe or Asia and it is unaffordable to run trains for extremely small amounts of numbers of people. What we do need to do is utilise freight rail to get as many long haul trucks off the road as possible. This is what we should be looking at in regional rail and not passenger services.
Having been a traveled around Germany I know where you are coming from, but,I don't believe passenger services are marketed properly, de corporatizing CL was a backward step.
The public need to know what is available as an alternative to driving.
Why?
The car is much more convenient and faster with much more efficient vehicles being sold and the possibility that within 20 years only electric cars will be sold and so the environmental issue will no longer be a factor. Trains make sense in heavily populated areas like Sydney because if we didn't have them the traffic would be gridlocked 24/7.
Australia is not Europe or Asia and it is unaffordable to run trains for extremely small amounts of numbers of people. What we do need to do is utilise freight rail to get as many long haul trucks off the road as possible. This is what we should be looking at in regional rail and not passenger services.
Again that is old thinking. Those Stadler Regio-Shuttle RS1 only have 2 250hp diesels. Yet can fit 200 people and a top speed of 120klm. So runnings costs are less than coaches with their big diesels.
What's more is that they can also run on light rail so you don't actually have to build/re-build to mainline standard. These babies were actually built and designed for your local branch lines in the valleys of the Harz, Thuringen Wald ect in mind. They have low floors, so even more savings for the reconstruction of stations.
So all up. The benifits speak for themselves.
And once the government starts showing interest in regional and rural rail again. The locals may start thinking. "smeg. Lets use this line to get some of the freight to (insert intermodal hub here)". If people see brightly coloured railcars with a (insert country town/region here) plastered all over they might go "smeg lets get that train and check it out"
But the residents need to understand that costs will have to rise. Not by much. But a trip from Newcastle to Sydney with DB prices is about can range from 20-100 bucks depending on service and passanger class.
What's more is that they can also run on light rail so you don't actually have to build/re-build to mainline standard. These babies were actually built and designed for your local branch lines in the valleys of the Harz, Thuringen Wald ect in mind. They have low floors, so even more savings for the reconstruction of stations.What are the local roads like in those valleys? Remember we are talking in this case of a flat, straight road with decent speed limits that can offer decent competition against rail.
Again that is old thinking. Those Stadler Regio-Shuttle RS1 only have 2 250hp diesels. Yet can fit 200 people and a top speed of 120klm. So runnings costs are less than coaches with their big diesels.
What's more is that they can also run on light rail so you don't actually have to build/re-build to mainline standard. These babies were actually built and designed for your local branch lines in the valleys of the Harz, Thuringen Wald ect in mind. They have low floors, so even more savings for the reconstruction of stations.
So all up. The benifits speak for themselves.
And once the government starts showing interest in regional and rural rail again. The locals may start thinking. "smeg. Lets use this line to get some of the freight to (insert intermodal hub here)". If people see brightly coloured railcars with a (insert country town/region here) plastered all over they might go "smeg lets get that train and check it out"
But the residents need to understand that costs will have to rise. Not by much. But a trip from Newcastle to Sydney with DB prices is about can range from 20-100 bucks depending on service and passanger class.
The distance is same as Awaba on Newcastle Line to Central or about $8.50 each way for peak adult travel, plus access to/from each station.
A few comments
- Is there supporting bus services in each town to get the commuter from the station too work?
- The train travel time is favorable to driving, basically slightly faster station to station, but how many people actual do the drive now?
- Actual time people want to travel as because as soon as you make them wait 1hr or so they are in the car.
For me, if the travel time penalty was no more than 30min longer, I certainly would go by rail but its still $20/day plus bus costs and $120+ / week maybe seen as expensive for many even if its cheaper than driving. In City you have congestion and parking costs and PT frequency, you don't have this in rural areas.The distance is same as Awaba on Newcastle Line to Central or about $8.50 each way for peak adult travel, plus access to/from each station.
A few comments
- Is there supporting bus services in each town to get the commuter from the station too work?
- The train travel time is favorable to driving, basically slightly faster station to station, but how many people actual do the drive now?
- Actual time people want to travel as because as soon as you make them wait 1hr or so they are in the car.
Useful comparison.
To answer:
1. There are bus companies, but I suspect with such a service it would require adjustment to routes and frequencies to collect and distribute pax.
2. This is the great unknown.
3. I suspect that the travel time would be roughly the same, assuming that train covers the distance quicker, but there are inneficiencies in the pickup and distribution activities to/from station.
A further comment
Will people value the travel time more if they are able to do other things on the train (e.g. work, or personal interest like reading or watching vids) compared to in the car where they have to hold onto the wheel?
