Ballarat Line upgrades underway

 
Topic moved from News by dthead on 20 Nov 2017 12:49
  justarider Assistant Commissioner

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
And WHY the surprise about a single track to Wendouree ?

The second track Ballarat to Wendouree has been out of service for decades, and half  ripped up. What's left is scrap not worth the effort.

The new station is not designed for 2 track running, its now a turn back for the commute to Melbourne, and doing a darn good job too.

cheers
John

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  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner


I was surprised that there's only one track at the Gillies Street level crossing and shocked by the location of poles for new signals closer to Ballarat station.
Gauntlet
I can't determine if it's ignorance or denial...
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller

With works all done and dusted. Does anyone have any idea when the “testing and commissioning” phase will begin. This is listed as early 2020 but nothing has been released regarding a shut down.

Also, can the additional services be added in isolation to the rest of the regional network? Or does Geelong & Bendigo timetables also need to be rewritten to get Ballarat it’s 40 minute off peak.

I know that a new metropolitan timetable is good to go, they are just waiting on the HCMTS entering service sometime this year.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
With works all done and dusted. Does anyone have any idea when the “testing and commissioning” phase will begin. This is listed as early 2020 but nothing has been released regarding a shut down.

Also, can the additional services be added in isolation to the rest of the regional network? Or does Geelong & Bendigo timetables also need to be rewritten to get Ballarat it’s 40 minute off peak.

I know that a new metropolitan timetable is good to go, they are just waiting on the HCMTS entering service sometime this year.
Lockie91
Contractors are still stuffing around like an old hen at the down end of the Ballan double track section, Level crossings at Old Geelong - Ballan Road (why does It have this name ?) and Geelong - Ballan Road are yet to be duplicated.

Geelong - Ballan Road level crossing was closed for an extended amount of time a few weeks ago (was even on the Melbourne traffic Incident report) on account to a truck roll over (might of been a construction workplace Incident, as trains were unaffected, the road was closed off by traffic control contractors)
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland

I was surprised that there's only one track at the Gillies Street level crossing and shocked by the location of poles for new signals closer to Ballarat station.I can't determine if it's ignorance or denial...
Lockspike
Ignorance I would say.

On other sections of recently duplicated track (as part of the same upgrade) signals for "right hand running" are on the right hand side of the track (signals for left hand running on the left side)
I see no reason why the new signals (Ballarat North to Gillies Street Wendoure) couldn't be mounted on the right hand side or mounted on the left hand side but a track width back.
This would mean when the time came to duplicate the Ballarat North to Wendoure section, the existing signals would be In the correct place.
As what others have said, whats left of the former down main line (South Track) Is In very poor condition and pretty much un-reusable.

I would like to see double dual gauge go through from Ballarat East to Ballarat West Employment Zone (as part of Gheringhap to Warrenheip, Ballarat North to Maryborough and BWEZ to Ararat gauge conversion)
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Saw this article and thought may as well post it here.

Government claims fast rail still the aim but opposition grows to non-tunnel option.

FUTURE fast rail to both Ballarat and Geelong won't be compromised regardless of what city-airport rail alignment is chosen, the state government claims.

The assurance comes as impetus grows from affected parties and regional heads urging the state government not to compromise. Both the state and federal governments remain locked in negotiations regarding the best route for an airport rail link, which is slated to be operational by 2027.


https://www.mailtimes.com.au/story/6620937/government-claims-fast-rail-still-the-aim-but-opposition-grows-to-non-tunnel-option/?cs=225

Reckon this is an interesting sentence;

The state government has already budgeted $100 million on detailed planning for the Western Rail Plan, which includes fast rail to Ballarat. No dates on an announcement of the preferred route have been declared.

Wonder if this was the Western Rail Plan that was put together a couple of years ago for standard gauge passenger trains to Hamilton and Horsham from Ballarat by John Haersch.

Wimmera MailTimes Facebook link.

BigShunter.
  Upven Station Master

Saw this article and thought may as well post it here.

Government claims fast rail still the aim but opposition grows to non-tunnel option.

FUTURE fast rail to both Ballarat and Geelong won't be compromised regardless of what city-airport rail alignment is chosen, the state government claims.

The assurance comes as impetus grows from affected parties and regional heads urging the state government not to compromise. Both the state and federal governments remain locked in negotiations regarding the best route for an airport rail link, which is slated to be operational by 2027.


https://www.mailtimes.com.au/story/6620937/government-claims-fast-rail-still-the-aim-but-opposition-grows-to-non-tunnel-option/?cs=225

Reckon this is an interesting sentence;

The state government has already budgeted $100 million on detailed planning for the Western Rail Plan, which includes fast rail to Ballarat. No dates on an announcement of the preferred route have been declared.

Wonder if this was the Western Rail Plan that was put together a couple of years ago for standard gauge passenger trains to Hamilton and Horsham from Ballarat by John Haersch.

Wimmera MailTimes Facebook link.

BigShunter.
BigShunter
This is the Western Rail Plan; here and here

From what I've heard the business case is expected around May or June, possibly alongside the Airport rail business case.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Why on earth do we need fast rail to Ballarat/Geelong when it would have zero benefit what so ever?
  ngarner Chief Train Controller

Location: Seville
Incidentally, will the Bungaree section still be used after the new Ballan lop is operational?
Duncs
In a nut shell, no. It'll be ripped up as unnecessary.

Neil
  david harvey Junior Train Controller

Location: Bairnsdale
Why on earth do we need fast rail to Ballarat/Geelong when it would have zero benefit what so ever?
railblogger
Can I ask a curly question; What is the definition of "Fast Rail ?" .Can somebody just give me an unbiased answer with out the political spin and the ,"if only we had enough crew we could run a sub 40 minute service to Ballarat !". Tell us what is achievable not what is on the wish list . I,m glad V/line didn't tender for the space program ,we would have the first bus in space.
  ngarner Chief Train Controller

Location: Seville
Why on earth do we need fast rail to Ballarat/Geelong when it would have zero benefit what so ever?
Can I ask a curly question; What is the definition of "Fast Rail ?" .Can somebody just give me an unbiased answer with out the political spin and the ,"if only we had enough crew we could run a sub 40 minute service to Ballarat !". Tell us what is achievable not what is on the wish list . I,m glad V/line didn't tender for the space program ,we would have the first bus in space.
david harvey
Not a curly question. The UIC defines it thus:

HSR is still a grounded, guided and low grip transport system: it could be considered to be a railway subsystem. The most important change comes from the speed. As travel times had to be reduced for commercial purposes, speed emerged as the main factor. HSR means a jump in commercial speed and this is why UIC considers a commercial speed of 250 km/h to be the principal criterion for the definition of HSR.
However, a secondary criterion is admitted on average distances without air competition, where it may not be relevant to run at 250 km/h, since a lower speed of 230 or 220 km/h or at least above 200 km/h (since under this speed conventional trains can do) is enough to catch as many market shares as a collective mode of transport can do. This also applies in very long tunnels whose construction cost depends on the diameter linked to the square of the speed, at least. For such speeds above 200 km/h, the infrastructure can be categorized in “High-Speed” if the system in operations, complies with:
  • track equipment,
  • rolling stock (generalisation of trainsets),
  • signalling systems (abandonment of trackside signals),
  • operations (long-range control centres),
  • the geographical or temporal separation of freight and passenger traffics,
  • and more globaly with the standards for High-Speed.
Link


There is apparently no ISO (or equivalent) standard however commonly you're looking at a minimum of 250kph, such as TGV (France), ICE (Germany), Italy's various iterations, Shinkansen (Japan) & China's network.
I've got an idea that someone (maybe RTTRules?) has left a post that defined the different terms used for different speed ranges; e.g. High, Medium, etc, but I'm not sure where it is on the forum now as the search feature is stuffed.

Neil
  david harvey Junior Train Controller

Location: Bairnsdale
Why on earth do we need fast rail to Ballarat/Geelong when it would have zero benefit what so ever?
Can I ask a curly question; What is the definition of "Fast Rail ?" .Can somebody just give me an unbiased answer with out the political spin and the ,"if only we had enough crew we could run a sub 40 minute service to Ballarat !". Tell us what is achievable not what is on the wish list . I,m glad V/line didn't tender for the space program ,we would have the first bus in space.
Not a curly question. The UIC defines it thus:

HSR is still a grounded, guided and low grip transport system: it could be considered to be a railway subsystem. The most important change comes from the speed. As travel times had to be reduced for commercial purposes, speed emerged as the main factor. HSR means a jump in commercial speed and this is why UIC considers a commercial speed of 250 km/h to be the principal criterion for the definition of HSR.
However, a secondary criterion is admitted on average distances without air competition, where it may not be relevant to run at 250 km/h, since a lower speed of 230 or 220 km/h or at least above 200 km/h (since under this speed conventional trains can do) is enough to catch as many market shares as a collective mode of transport can do. This also applies in very long tunnels whose construction cost depends on the diameter linked to the square of the speed, at least. For such speeds above 200 km/h, the infrastructure can be categorized in “High-Speed” if the system in operations, complies with:
  • track equipment,
  • rolling stock (generalisation of trainsets),
  • signalling systems (abandonment of trackside signals),
  • operations (long-range control centres),
  • the geographical or temporal separation of freight and passenger traffics,
  • and more globaly with the standards for High-Speed.
Link


There is apparently no ISO (or equivalent) standard however commonly you're looking at a minimum of 250kph, such as TGV (France), ICE (Germany), Italy's various iterations, Shinkansen (Japan) & China's network.
I've got an idea that someone (maybe RTTRules?) has left a post that defined the different terms used for different speed ranges; e.g. High, Medium, etc, but I'm not sure where it is on the forum now as the search feature is stuffed.

Neil
ngarner
Neil ,Im impressed,You've come a long way since B siding with your typing skills or did you have that HSR  answer prepared  especially for some rail crank with me, after all I am just a humble J.T.C.
  ngarner Chief Train Controller

Location: Seville
Why on earth do we need fast rail to Ballarat/Geelong when it would have zero benefit what so ever?
Can I ask a curly question; What is the definition of "Fast Rail ?" .Can somebody just give me an unbiased answer with out the political spin and the ,"if only we had enough crew we could run a sub 40 minute service to Ballarat !". Tell us what is achievable not what is on the wish list . I,m glad V/line didn't tender for the space program ,we would have the first bus in space.
Not a curly question. The UIC defines it thus:

HSR is still a grounded, guided and low grip transport system: it could be considered to be a railway subsystem. The most important change comes from the speed. As travel times had to be reduced for commercial purposes, speed emerged as the main factor. HSR means a jump in commercial speed and this is why UIC considers a commercial speed of 250 km/h to be the principal criterion for the definition of HSR.
However, a secondary criterion is admitted on average distances without air competition, where it may not be relevant to run at 250 km/h, since a lower speed of 230 or 220 km/h or at least above 200 km/h (since under this speed conventional trains can do) is enough to catch as many market shares as a collective mode of transport can do. This also applies in very long tunnels whose construction cost depends on the diameter linked to the square of the speed, at least. For such speeds above 200 km/h, the infrastructure can be categorized in “High-Speed” if the system in operations, complies with:
  • track equipment,
  • rolling stock (generalisation of trainsets),
  • signalling systems (abandonment of trackside signals),
  • operations (long-range control centres),
  • the geographical or temporal separation of freight and passenger traffics,
  • and more globaly with the standards for High-Speed.
Link


There is apparently no ISO (or equivalent) standard however commonly you're looking at a minimum of 250kph, such as TGV (France), ICE (Germany), Italy's various iterations, Shinkansen (Japan) & China's network.
I've got an idea that someone (maybe RTTRules?) has left a post that defined the different terms used for different speed ranges; e.g. High, Medium, etc, but I'm not sure where it is on the forum now as the search feature is stuffed.

Neil
Neil ,Im impressed,You've come a long way since B siding with your typing skills or did you have that HSR  answer prepared  especially for some rail crank with me, after all I am just a humble J.T.C.
david harvey
You're giving me too much credit there, David. That's, mostly, a cut and paste effort, that one

Neil
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

At the end of the day I think trying to fit services into neat categories is a bit of a fool’s errand. There are multiple continua – top speed, number of stops, service frequency, stock type – which need to be adjusted to local conditions, and always are in the “best” global examples.

Even an armchair argument ought to start by asking “what do we want to achieve with the upgraded service?” and tweaking all the parameters available to achieve that. More fun for everyone.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Three certainties in life  death, taxes and pollies getting all excited about FAST Trains at election time !!!! (Only to do nothing but polly waffle on about fast tarins till the next eelction!!)

Here in the case of High Speed trains in Victoria what is being looked at is Higher Speed Trains operating potentially at up to 200kmh on a tarted up Class-1 track with total grade separation of all level crossings , and easing of curvature to maximize speed in selected corridors.

In the case of Geelong the project would probably extend from Ardeer to North Shore with total grade separation of all  13 remaining level crossings between Ardeer and North Shore .

Above that one is talking about the TGV type train which requires a whole new railway based on gentle curvature to maximize speeds and in many cases with steeper grades where the benefit of the momentum of a quantum increase in train speed can be realized in undulating country. Typically such High Speed lines all have in cab signalling .
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Apparently 600 people are using Cobblebank Station each day according to the Ballarat Line Upgrade FB page.  That's quite a lot for a location in a paddock.  It wouldn't surprise that man who have used Melton in the past are now using this new station.  It certainly has better facilities in most respects!
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
The Ballarat bound service I'm currently on is travelling on the Bungaree loop.  Does anyone know when the new improved main line will open?
The new track west of Bacchus Marsh doesn't look like it has seen anything run on it (except the SSR load train).
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Apparently 600 people are using Cobblebank Station each day according to the Ballarat Line Upgrade FB page.  That's quite a lot for a location in a paddock.  It wouldn't surprise that man who have used Melton in the past are now using this new station.  It certainly has better facilities in most respects!
Carnot

Encouraging news across the Ballarat Line and of course the announcement of the Intermodal Terminal.

The challenge now is to load the station up.  Do we have a view on the impact these 600 a day are having on the capacity of services?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Apparently 600 people are using Cobblebank Station each day according to the Ballarat Line Upgrade FB page.  That's quite a lot for a 'location in a paddock'.  It wouldn't surprise that man who have used Melton in the past are now using this new station.  It certainly has better facilities in most respects!
Carnot

Perhaps swing by and have a closer look.

M.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The Ballarat bound service I'm currently on is travelling on the Bungaree loop.  Does anyone know when the new improved main line will open?
The new track west of Bacchus Marsh doesn't look like it has seen anything run on it (except the SSR load train).
Donald

I had a chat with BLU this week about a separate matter.

Planned for August/September after one more shutdown to commission loops.

Mike.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

The Ballarat bound service I'm currently on is travelling on the Bungaree loop.  Does anyone know when the new improved main line will open?
The new track west of Bacchus Marsh doesn't look like it has seen anything run on it (except the SSR load train).

I had a chat with BLU this week about a separate matter.

Planned for August/September after one more shutdown to commission loops.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Yep.  Ballarat line is shutdown between April 22 - May 3 for a whole lot of work.  Kind of pre-emptive of the Govt to say that it was "finished" in 2019...
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The Ballarat bound service I'm currently on is travelling on the Bungaree loop.  Does anyone know when the new improved main line will open?
The new track west of Bacchus Marsh doesn't look like it has seen anything run on it (except the SSR load train).

I had a chat with BLU this week about a separate matter.

Planned for August/September after one more shutdown to commission loops.

Mike.
Yep.  Ballarat line is shutdown between April 22 - May 3 for a whole lot of work.  Kind of pre-emptive of the Govt to say that it was "finished" in 2019...
Carnot

Agreed..a bit cheeky as there was no election just around the corner...however unlikely to have ever been done during the Liberal/National party government should they have still been in power.

Mike.
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller

Something still doesn’t quite add up.

What works are planned for the April shutdown? From the layman’s eye, majority if not all of the major infrastructure is completed

Still leaves a four month gap between this current shutdown and commissioning in August.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Agreed..a bit cheeky as there was no election just around the corner...however unlikely to have ever been done during the Liberal/National party government should they have still been in power.

Mike.
The Vinelander..
Sums up politics for me - accept a second rate government and it's constant spin doctoring and outright BS because the other lot are worse. Aye Chihuahua, how did we get to this.......
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Something still doesn’t quite add up.

What works are planned for the April shutdown? From the layman’s eye, majority if not all of the major infrastructure is completed

Still leaves a four month gap between this current shutdown and commissioning in August.
Lockie91

Still HEAPS of technical stuff to do. Many signal masts and staunchions are yet to be lit up with any lights, let alone be commissioned.

Several loops (Bacchus Marsh, Ballan & Millbrook)yet to be completed and some speed restricted tracks to be rectified.

I hope a fortnight is long enough...

Mike.

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