Lilydale Rail Crossing review and thus future of Meto rail returning to Helaesville

 
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

Could be an option after Metro 2, Dandenong Quad, Clyde Extension, etc Wishlist is completed or announced but only to Yarra Glen. The Tourist Group have done an amazing job there and we need to support their great contribution to our society. It is their rail line.

Perhaps we could have VLocitys running every 40 Minutes/Hour To Yarra Glen to bring tourists to the area. You have comfortable train with nice seats and wifi carrying tourists from Melbourne to the valley, a great idea after we upgrade the other parts of the network. Could stop at Flinders, Richmond, Box Hill, Lilydale and Coldstream. I think it could work

It's nice to see you have interest in the level crossing removal project. For the Lilydale crossing there are a few more options that could be considered. Such as providing a new Lilydale road bypass, as shown on the Melways. Moving the station south of the crossing can be considered as an option. A rail under/over solution will need to happen if the station is on the other-side. Benefits in this option would be able to have better bus transfer connection and could rejuvate the area. As for the topic that has been covered before. A rail-line to Healesville will not happen. It's rural so there isn't much benefit extending the rail that far out. If you wanted a cheaper solution maybe have a better bus network in the area. But there are many other more urgent areas inside Melbourne that need a better bus service. As for rail-extensions/electrifications should be prioritised in areas where housing will be developed. Numbering is the rough order it should be. This is a rough guide how the rail projects should be in order. Costs are just a guide. Note the costs may include grade seperation/s. High capacity signalling, new trains, upgraded tracks, new stabling and grade seperations are continual investments to the rail network that needs to be accounted as well. 1) Melton electrification (1 billion) 2) Clyde Rail (600 million) 3) Melbourne Metro 2 Tunnel (16 billion) 3) Wyndham Vale/Tarneit are electrified (1 billion) 4) Airport Rail (3 billion) and Dandenong Quadding (5 billion) 5) Baxter rail line (800 million) 6) Wallan line (1 billion) 7) Rowville line (3 billion) 8) Geelong electrification (2 billion) 9) Doncaster rail line (3 billion)
True Belivers


1. Melton Electrification - announced by Dan Andrews,
2. Clyde Rail - full Duplication to Cranbourne announced by Dan Andrews, planning for Clyde
3. Metro 2 - yet to be announced
4. Wyndham Vale Electrification- announced by Dan Andrews
5. Airport Rail - announced by Dan Andrews and matched by Federal Government, going to be finally done
6. Dandenong Quadding - yet to be announced
7. Baxter - business case from Dan Andrews and federal backing, will be announced soon
8. Wallan - yet to be announced
9. Rowville - light rail proposed, could be heavy rail as feds have put money forward
10. Geelong Line - fast rail announced by Dan Andrews
11. Doncaster Line - fast bussway ala Brisbane announced as part of NE Link project, should honestly be heavy rail


Most of the Wishlist has some commitment to it in some way, will be time for a new Wishlist in a couple of years

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  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Sorry to burst ur dreams, but half of the stuff isn't funded yet. And there are major billion dollar projects still waiting.

Returning rail is Healesville is near the bottom of the priority list.

Suburban rail loop will cost a fortune as well as the metro 2 which hasn't been announced yet.

Wallan electrification is still waiting

Wollert rail branch is another key project after metro 2

Then there's major bus and tram rebuilds that need to happen

And I reckon next on the priority list is seperating the rest of the regional lines from metro

I even think Mildura is more worth having a rail service than Healesville.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

Sorry to burst ur dreams, but half of the stuff isn't funded yet. And there are major billion dollar projects still waiting. Returning rail is Healesville is near the bottom of the priority list. Suburban rail loop will cost a fortune as well as the metro 2 which hasn't been announced yet. Wallan electrification is still waiting Wollert rail branch is another key project after metro 2 Then there's major bus and tram rebuilds that need to happen And I reckon next on the priority list is seperating the rest of the regional lines from metro I even think Mildura is more worth having a rail service than Healesville.
True Believers


Not really my dream but an idea that the poster of this idea to consider if it were built. Wollert yes hasn’t been funded neither has Wallan but my other post said that. All the others have some commitment through an announcement in some way or federal commitment

Bus and Tram rebuilds aren’t this forum
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Would Healesville be seriously considered for return services?

I would expect to Yarra Glen.
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

The Wollert Extension would probably coincide with Metro 2 works. I would assume that the extension and duplication of the Upfield line to Craigieburn will be announced at some point within the next term. It will probably be completed in preparation for Metro 1. Other than that, in terms of extensions we've got Melton, Clyde and Baxter all progressing, even if all of them won't be done for another 10 years. After that, there will be the Werribee extension to Wyndham Vale/Black Forest Road, Wallan and Wollert.
Then...
There will probably be room for discussions for an extension of the Lilydale line to Yarra Glen. However, the issue of stabling might propel this project forward a few years, as I'm not sure if the Ringwood loop line would be able to independently sustain a high-frequency service.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
Yarra Ranges Council planning is well advanced for the Lilydale-Yarra Glen Rail Trail (marketed as Stage 1 of the Yarra Valley Trail) that will be using the top of the railway line formation between those two locations in its entirety, including bridge rebuilds that will have a 5 tonne gross span rating which is well below the requirements for rail traffic. In fact, state funding has been secured (the money is in the council coffers as we speak) and construction is slated to begin in Q1 next year. The VicTrack lease will be secured shortly. There are assurances from State Government bodies that the railway line will not be rebuilt/extended for at least 10 years.

Dream on.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
It's good to see a lively discussion on this, but most of it has been covered already, especially in the LX removal thread.  In my opinion there could one day be an extension to Coldstream, but no further - too many practical difficulties, and in any case insufficient demand.  

But I disagree that an extension to Coldstream would only be for operational reasons.  Many commuters currently drive to Lilydale from Healesville, Yarra Glen, Dixons Creek, Wandin Seville and other such places, resulting in the car parking at Lilydale station filling up early.  If these commuters could end their drive at Coldstream I'm sure they would welcome thate the possibility - I know I would - while at the same time it would free up some car parking space at Lilydale
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
A rail line back to Yarra Glen with Metro Services would be a boost for the area.  Seems no one really listens to the social side of rail when we have seen time and time again housing and social access/uplift delivered with rail upgrades and extensions.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
A rail line back to Yarra Glen with Metro Services would be a boost for the area.  Seems no one really listens to the social side of rail when we have seen time and time again housing and social access/uplift delivered with rail upgrades and extensions.
x31
You might want to see the Yarra Valley and Ranges infilled with houses but luckily as pointed out previously most people including the council don't and development is heavily restricted or controlled in the area.

https://www.yarraranges.vic.gov.au/files/assets/public/webdocuments/planning-building-health/strategic-planning/policies-strategies-strategic-planning/green_wedge_management_plan_-_adopted_july_2010.pdf

BG
  justarider Chief Train Controller

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
A rail line back to Yarra Glen with Metro Services would be a boost for the area.  Seems no one really listens to the social side of rail when we have seen time and time again housing and social access/uplift delivered with rail upgrades and extensions.
You might want to see the Yarra Valley and Ranges infilled with houses but luckily as pointed out previously most people including the council don't and development is heavily restricted or controlled in the area.

https://www.yarraranges.vic.gov.au/files/assets/public/webdocuments/planning-building-health/strategic-planning/policies-strategies-strategic-planning/green_wedge_management_plan_-_adopted_july_2010.pdf

BG
BrentonGolding
Only way I see rail returning to Yarra Glen is as a Heritage train restoration. A good day out to the races.
But of course very expensive and few (if any) enthusiasts. The local effort is going into the rail trail, and it's looking good.

Coldsteam is probably a good long term plan, if only to solve the stabling and parking problems that are arising in Lilydale with the LX removals.

cheers
John
  trainbrain Deputy Commissioner

The new train station will be on the upside of the Maroondah Hwy, (similar setup to Mernda), Lilydale tard to be reconfigured into a major stabling siding and retaining the current Lilydale station which is heritage listed.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The new train station will be on the upside of the Maroondah Hwy, (similar setup to Mernda), Lilydale tard to be reconfigured into a major stabling siding and retaining the current Lilydale station which is heritage listed.
trainbrain
So a new elevated viaduct section over Maroondah Highway and John Street, current station bypassed by railway tracks as the viaduct comes down to ground level In the yard.
  trainbrain Deputy Commissioner

ditto, John St to form part of new Bus interchange............
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
ditto, John St to form part of new Bus interchange............
trainbrain
There's no need for a new bus station, and in any case no room for one in the John St area.  Build a Mernda-style elevated station where the northern end extends across the highway, with stairs/escalators/lifts from the northern end down to the existing bus station (and taxi rank), which would then continue to be used.
  trainbrain Deputy Commissioner

ditto, John St to form part of new Bus interchange............
There's no need for a new bus station, and in any case no room for one in the John St area.  Build a Mernda-style elevated station where the northern end extends across the highway, with stairs/escalators/lifts from the northern end down to the existing bus station (and taxi rank), which would then continue to be used.
Lad_Porter
you maybe in for a rude shock..............
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Going back to Coldstream should really be trivial and could be done quickly. Back to Yarra glen sounds like a much better idea than to Healesville.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
ditto, John St to form part of new Bus interchange............
There's no need for a new bus station, and in any case no room for one in the John St area.  Build a Mernda-style elevated station where the northern end extends across the highway, with stairs/escalators/lifts from the northern end down to the existing bus station (and taxi rank), which would then continue to be used.
you maybe in for a rude shock..............
trainbrain
What does that mean?
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Going back to Coldstream should really be trivial and could be done quickly. Back to Yarra glen sounds like a much better idea than to Healesville.
freightgate
Unlikely.  There is some point in extending to Coldstream, but none whatever in going any further, even ignoring the practical difficulties of the flood plain.  (Yes, it does still flood in winter.)  The YVR are doing a good job with their tourist railway between  Yarra Glen and Healesville, but that's all there ever will be in that section.

Back in the day, I used to travel on the DERM from YG to Lilydale, and while it was a pleasant  trip, it was never justifiable in terms of patronage, and no wonder that it was eventually replaced by a bus.  Today, the bus patronage is a little better, but I would not consider it good enough to justify the expense of re-introducing a train service.
  trainbrain Deputy Commissioner

ditto, John St to form part of new Bus interchange............
There's no need for a new bus station, and in any case no room for one in the John St area.  Build a Mernda-style elevated station where the northern end extends across the highway, with stairs/escalators/lifts from the northern end down to the existing bus station (and taxi rank), which would then continue to be used.
you maybe in for a rude shock..............
What does that mean?
Lad_Porter
a nnew bus interchange is planned for the new station, the current one will be bulldozed.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Interesting.  Bulldozed, then turned into what?  Car parking?

When you say "planned", does the LXRA have any definite plans as yet?  if so, can they be  viewed?
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Hahahaha.

Metro to Healesville, let alone Yarra Glen?  You'd be more likely to see a sleeper to Mildura.
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
Being a local, it would be "nice" to see Metro return to Yarra Glen, but it's not going to happen - not practical, too many difficulties/obstacles, of no benefit, and could never be justified.  A clear case of where the feeder bus to Lilydale is a no brainer, and provides more flexible options anyway - although the service frequency to/from YG could be improved.

If Metro were to return to Yarra Glen, it would mean that vast amounts of money and resources had been spent unnecessarily and for no practical advantage or purpose.

The YVTR has the section to Healesville, and good luck to them, but that's it in terms of trains ever returning to Yarra Glen.  There could be a case for a Metro extension from Lilydale to Coldstream, at some time in the distant future, but no further.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

There are other priorities on our network, but with providing a service to connect with the Yarra Valley is something I’d like to see

Yarra Valley To Healesville is for the YVTR and I want them to have all the success they can have. Promoting it for tourists, wine and food tasters and families is something that needs to be done.

You could provide an hourly service to Yarra Glen with a Vlo/sprinter to funnel tourists to the valley, something i would do with the service stopping at Richmond, Camberwell, Ringwood, Lilydale and Yarra Glen.

Metro to Coldstream with a massive stabling facility, is the only chance Metro will go beyond Lilydale. There may be some demand but you would need Park and ride facilities as well as frequent bus services funnelled into Colstream from Yering, Kinglake, Lilydale Airport and Yarra Glen to justify it. Then maybe extend the yvtr to Coldstream similar to the puffing billy at Belgrave
  trainbrain Deputy Commissioner

Maybe you should look more at Lilydale/Mt. Evelyn/ Wandin/Woori Yallock, by far a larger population.
  ngarner Train Controller

Location: Seville
Maybe you should look more at Lilydale/Mt. Evelyn/ Wandin/Woori Yallock, by far a larger population.
trainbrain
Larger population, maybe, but the Warburton line closed in 1965, well before the Healesville line (1980). The Warburton line weaved and climbed to pick up every little township it could which made it slow and unappealing with the development of the car. The Martyr's bus from Warburton does not carry many per trip and it goes direct from Wandin Nth to Lilydale ignoring Mt Evelyn so shortening the length of that trip (a more frequent service might improve the number who catch it but I wouldn't bet on it - too many of my fellow Yarra Valley residents are addicted to their cars).
The Ventura buses from Mt Evelyn possibly carry even fewer than Martyrs and the locals have two routes to choose from, so they have better options than those further out in the Valley but still choose not to use them.

Neil

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