V/Line Incidents/Disruptions #2

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Please now use this thread for V/Line disruptions

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  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

I'm living through Railpage history!
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I'm living through Railpage history!
potatoinmymouth

Previous thread so large I could not split off the great discussions around the fueling issues.  Needed to happen as has in other threads. Smile
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Yes 1 hose is used to fuel as Jack explained there is 2 but each hose services 2 roads. Yeah the 1657 last night was cancelled due to no fuel units are shuffled daily due to fuel requirments. a top up doesnt really occur if it goes in the fuel point it is filled completly vast majority you mean less than half units stabled at some locations? where the other units sit idle for 8hrs get prepped run to melb then shunt out to fuel? some weekend days have up to 20 fuels a day rostered(emergency) considering the allocated time is 90 mins per 3 car unit that can only be fuelled in 4 car things are going to get shuffled and cancelled. I believe outstation fuelling should be expanded so all units stabled there are fuelled each night with the potential to look at day fuelling between services fuel times allowing it is something they should be looking at utilising considering it can take up to 1 hr during peak times trying to shunt a vlo to the fuel point it makes perfect sense too expand outstation fuelling and returning scs fuel point to a true emergency fuel point.
scumcock
A couple of things here, yes I was being a bit facetious, there are two pumps but each with one hose, they way you wrote your post implied that there was only one hose in total.

A top up to me is when you put in a couple of hundred litres into a 2100l tank. Why wouldn't you fill it up whilst its there?

What percentage of units get fueled at each location each night? I know Gippsland gets all its units filled each night.

Since when has the fuel point at the car sidings at SCS ever been referred to as an emergency fuel point? Do the vehicles stabled overnight at SCS and surrounding sidings never require fuel? Must all vehicles only ever be filled at regional locations?

You didn't actually explain how you would go about expanding refueling a regional locations during the day. Take Geelong for example. How would you get a unit to the fuel point during the day? You can't obviously take passengers in there so would you start terminating services at Geelong? Run empty cars from Sth Geelong or Waurn Ponds taking up valuable paths? Is there a spare unit or two to run the service that the unit to be fueled would have run? Are there currently enough crews available to be tied up doing refueling during the day? How would you do it?

I don't think anyone is in denial that the current setup at SCS (all areas) is far from optimal, but I doubt any infrastructure will be improved whilst rumors persist of a relocation of the yard areas.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

You can't obviously take passengers in there
jakar


Please don't suggest it to anyone who might listen!
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
You can't obviously take passengers in there


Please don't suggest it to anyone who might listen!
potatoinmymouth
In Victoria? You would have to be kidding right? I'm surprised they are allowed to be fueled at all - bloody dangerous stuff that Dee-sal!

But I digress.......

Today's V/Line email is interesting - "16.25 Southern Cross - Epsom train will not run. Customers are asked to board the 16.25 Ex SCS Metro service to Sunbury to meet with road coaches"

Not one that I've seen before but I'm going to take a glass half full approach here - getting the Metro service buys V/Line 30 minutes to get coaches organised, they are possibly easier to get at SBY, quicker to get to the passengers than peak hour Melbourne and quicker for Pax to get home.

Obviously the Spark service would be a bit crowded but good on V/Line for being creative.

BG
  DalyWaters Chief Commissioner


Since when has the fuel point at the car sidings at SCS ever been referred to as an emergency fuel point? Do the vehicles stabled overnight at SCS and surrounding sidings never require fuel? Must all vehicles only ever be filled at regional locations?
jakar
I am led to believe the EPA have licensed the Car Sidings fuelling for emergency use only.  The facilities are primitive and hardly likely to win permanent approval without some work.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
You can't obviously take passengers in there


Please don't suggest it to anyone who might listen!
In Victoria? You would have to be kidding right? I'm surprised they are allowed to be fueled at all - bloody dangerous stuff that Dee-sal!

But I digress.......

Today's V/Line email is interesting - "16.25 Southern Cross - Epsom train will not run. Customers are asked to board the 16.25 Ex SCS Metro service to Sunbury to meet with road coaches"

Not one that I've seen before but I'm going to take a glass half full approach here - getting the Metro service buys V/Line 30 minutes to get coaches organised, they are possibly easier to get at SBY, quicker to get to the passengers than peak hour Melbourne and quicker for Pax to get home.

Obviously the Spark service would be a bit crowded but good on V/Line for being creative.

BG
BrentonGolding
Interesting way of doing it. The reason most replacement coaches run via Footscray ex Southern Cross is that V/Line are not meant to tell pax to board a Metro service without somehow having to compensate Metro (at least this is what I've heard, the idea of V/Line having to pay compensation when passengers are paying the fare anyway seems a ridiculous idea to me).
  Dd893 Train Controller

Location: Castlemaine
Went to catch the 18:02 Southern Cross to Bendigo service tonight from platform 16A and was onboard at 17:50. An announcement 5 minutes prior to departure time listed the stations the service stops at. Still at Southern Cross the next announcement was at 18:15 saying the train had no toilets and was cancelled go to platform 5B and catch the Swan Hill pass.
It departed on time but was now stopping at all stations to make up for the 18:02 cancellation. They made good time and departed Castlemaine (my stop) only 19 minutes late.
While waiting for the 18:02 to depart an announcement on an adjacent platform at about 18:10 informing passengers that the 18:15 Bairnsdale service will dock shortly. They had an engine failure and had to get another one to haul the carriages (their words). It docked at 18:17 as we were heading back up the escalators.

Cheers, Russell
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
I had to laugh when I saw this one from V/Line yeserday "14:22 Southern Cross - Bendigo will not run today and had been replaced by road coaches"

By today we were back in the present tense with "Brenton, the 16:57 Southern Cross - Castlemaine train has been replaced by road coaches this afternoon"

That is the second time in a week that the flagship Down service has been bustituted, not a good look V/Line

BG
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

If it’s any consolation BG, I think you would be able to count on one hand* the number of people inside V/Line who would know what you meant by the “flagship” these days.

*exaggeration please don’t bite me
  Radioman Chief Train Controller

Hello All,

once upon a time locomotives and rail motors were topped up either at the end of a shift or between runs time permitting. Nowadays Loco Control advises crews when to fuel up, this apparently saves a lot of money over a 12 month period, but the down side is that motive power occasionally runs out of fuel at some place in the middle of nowhere, so I often wonder if the no top up approach is really worth the apparent savings if services are badly delayed or cancelled due to an empty fuel tank.

Regards, Radioman.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Nowadays Loco Control advises crews when to fuel up, this apparently saves a lot of money over a 12 month period
Radioman

Now, I’m no engineer, but if I fill up my car when it hits half, don’t I spend the same amount of money on petroleum in the end as if I ran it till empty?
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Nowadays Loco Control advises crews when to fuel up, this apparently saves a lot of money over a 12 month period,
"Radioman"
You do the kilometres; you burn the fuel. It doesn't make a blind bit of difference how often you top up the tank. The only way to save money is to watch the price cycle and go for it when it's at it's low point.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

https://www.midlandexpress.com.au/tracks-death-trap/
This is why we can’t have nice (time-saving, reliability-improving, service-bettering) things.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
https://www.midlandexpress.com.au/tracks-death-trap/
This is why we can’t have nice (time-saving, reliability-improving, service-bettering) things.
potatoinmymouth
Great, another (factually incorrect) scare campaign from a bunch of whingers.

Get to the station on time for your service, simples. There are signs EVERYWHERE at Kyneton P1 telling people about this change, it is not like they can say they don't know about it.

BG
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
https://www.midlandexpress.com.au/tracks-death-trap/
This is why we can’t have nice (time-saving, reliability-improving, service-bettering) things.
Great, another (factually incorrect) scare campaign from a bunch of whingers.

Get to the station on time for your service, simples. There are signs EVERYWHERE at Kyneton P1 telling people about this change, it is not like they can say they don't know about it.

BG
BrentonGolding
Interesting info, I would love to know, where these people are going, that they are willing to risk, their lives. Once again, we have too save people from them selves.

BigShunter.
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

Hello All,

once upon a time locomotives and rail motors were topped up either at the end of a shift or between runs time permitting. Nowadays Loco Control advises crews when to fuel up, this apparently saves a lot of money over a 12 month period, but the down side is that motive power occasionally runs out of fuel at some place in the middle of nowhere, so I often wonder if the no top up approach is really worth the apparent savings if services are badly delayed or cancelled due to an empty fuel tank.

Regards, Radioman.
Radioman
The only way that leaving depots with only part full tanks can save money is that there is less fuel in the tank at the end of the accounting period that has been paid for but not used. Minimal savings I should think hugely outweighed by the costs of multiple delays that occur for each 'out of fuel' incident.

It seems to me that Loco Control is not being held accountable for delays due to motive power running out of fuel. If they were/are, they would quickly take action to ensure motive power does not run out of fuel.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

N472 and N463 spotted double heading an H set through Sunshine on the up RRL. Loco failure?
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
That is just sad.

I just cannot believe the stupidity of this decision.

What will be next, a full passenger overpass like you are getting at Ballan before they are allowed to revert back to P2 running?

BG
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
https://www.vline.com.au/Timetables/Train-coach-timetables

It looks like Seymore has had a change of spelling for a few days... Wink

M.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
It looks like Seymore has had a change of spelling for a few days
"The Vinelander"
Don't worry; they probably don't know where it is anyway.
  scumcock Locomotive Fireman

Yes 1 hose is used to fuel as Jack explained there is 2 but each hose services 2 roads. Yeah the 1657 last night was cancelled due to no fuel units are shuffled daily due to fuel requirments. a top up doesnt really occur if it goes in the fuel point it is filled completly vast majority you mean less than half units stabled at some locations? where the other units sit idle for 8hrs get prepped run to melb then shunt out to fuel? some weekend days have up to 20 fuels a day rostered(emergency) considering the allocated time is 90 mins per 3 car unit that can only be fuelled in 4 car things are going to get shuffled and cancelled. I believe outstation fuelling should be expanded so all units stabled there are fuelled each night with the potential to look at day fuelling between services fuel times allowing it is something they should be looking at utilising considering it can take up to 1 hr during peak times trying to shunt a vlo to the fuel point it makes perfect sense too expand outstation fuelling and returning scs fuel point to a true emergency fuel point.
A couple of things here, yes I was being a bit facetious, there are two pumps but each with one hose, they way you wrote your post implied that there was only one hose in total.

A top up to me is when you put in a couple of hundred litres into a 2100l tank. Why wouldn't you fill it up whilst its there?

What percentage of units get fueled at each location each night? I know Gippsland gets all its units filled each night.

Since when has the fuel point at the car sidings at SCS ever been referred to as an emergency fuel point? Do the vehicles stabled overnight at SCS and surrounding sidings never require fuel? Must all vehicles only ever be filled at regional locations?

You didn't actually explain how you would go about expanding refueling a regional locations during the day. Take Geelong for example. How would you get a unit to the fuel point during the day? You can't obviously take passengers in there so would you start terminating services at Geelong? Run empty cars from Sth Geelong or Waurn Ponds taking up valuable paths? Is there a spare unit or two to run the service that the unit to be fueled would have run? Are there currently enough crews available to be tied up doing refueling during the day? How would you do it?

I don't think anyone is in denial that the current setup at SCS (all areas) is far from optimal, but I doubt any infrastructure will be improved whilst rumors persist of a relocation of the yard areas.
jakar
Well lets start at Explaining how I would go about refuelling during the day as you say...Considering I said POTENTIAL to LOOK at day fuelling I did not state it should be done but looked at but for s#@ts and giggles look at bendigo there is an hour between services certainly plenty of time for a unit to shunt out fuel and redock considering there are fuellers employed it certainly speeds up the process just need to run say the 7:20? down service as a 6 car considering this train is heavily crowded on arrival and has been the subject of media reports of its overcrowding would benifit running as a 6 car train then giving you a spare 3 car set for the days fuelling activities the new works at the station will allow platform 2 too be better utilised can have a fresh dock ex fuel point waiting on 1plat and arrival ex melb into 2 plat ready to shunt out to fuel point even using it with every second service it still works out as a better use of manpower than in melbourne.
Geelong is an extremly busy corridor and would be hessitant to look at doin it there but ballarat,bendigo,seymour and tralalgon certaily lend themselves to it due to the long waits between services.
Im not a planner but some services sit in 2 plat at brt for an hour or so if say 3 fuels can be done in sountry locations its a better use of manpower than doing it in melb.
Add another nightime fuelling shift in brt-bgo and almost every unit can be fuelled in these locations again 1 extra driver and fueller another 6 done so bgo can have 12 out of 15 stabled units fuelled instead of a maximum of 6.
  scumcock Locomotive Fireman

Interesting the platform change at Kyneton contributed to a 5% increase on on time running on the
BGO corridor.
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

https://www.thecourier.com.au/story/5564115/vline-move-a-natural-fit-for-ballarat-opposition-leader/?cs=62
Now this is interesting. Remember when Mr Weimar was appointed chair of V/Line and we couldn’t work out what the hell the Opposition was on about with a “city takeover” of V/Line? This is the policy they were preempting.

Of course it’s absolute numbskullery but I expect nothing less than that from this Opposition. The reality is the Victorian rail network is centred on Melbourne and Spencer St will, consequently, always be an operations hub of sorts for V/Line.

If they really wanted to make Ballarat the “transport capital of Victoria” then we know the best thing they could do: a new standard gauge western passenger network!

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