Hurstbridge Line Upgrade Stage 2

 
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Note: Victoria has industrial standards for timber trestle bridges that ARE updated on a regular basis, inspections HAVE to be done and all work MUST be up to the current standards.

woodford

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  gary george Beginner

When you look back at the orriginal timber road over bridges that were replaced by the VR in the early 60,s they were built to accomidate a second track which was designed to run from the up end of the trestle to greensbourgh. thus leaving the trestle in place and only a short section of single track to contend with.. Train over bridge at Sherbourne road was built with two tracks in mind  but only one deck installed. kept the greenies happy.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

Will the rebuilt of Greensborough Station have three platforms, one for terminating, one for down Hurstbridge/Eltham Services and one for up City Services ?
  LeroyW Junior Train Controller

Location: Awaiting MM2
Will the rebuilt of Greensborough Station have three platforms, one for terminating, one for down Hurstbridge/Eltham Services and one for up City Services ?
ptvcommuter
I have no idea what the plans are but have thought about this a little.
The station precinct is very space constrained as it is: I don't think you could fit three platforns across without removing some car parking (pretty unpopular) or greatly shrinking available platform space (and it can already get very crowded at peak times). If they were going to do it I inagine they would stagger the third platform much like the two are currently staggered.

An alternative might be that after the promised duplication to Eltham they add the third platform there and not terminate as many services at Greensborough.
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

I have no idea what the plans are but have thought about this a little. The station precinct is very space constrained as it is: I don't think you could fit three platforns across without removing some car parking (pretty unpopular) or greatly shrinking available platform space (and it can already get very crowded at peak times). If they were going to do it I inagine they would stagger the third platform much like the two are currently staggered. An alternative might be that after the promised duplication to Eltham they add the third platform there and not terminate as many services at Greensborough.
Leroy.W


May be space on the Poulter Ave side of the station for a third platform, although it would require a fair bit of work. Still 500+ Million for 7-8km of Duplication/new Station/trackwork at Clifton Hill, surely that could get you a Station at Eltham North (allendale rd) and a second platform at Montmorency
  Lockie91 Train Controller

53 Million announced in today’s budget. 21 million to be spent in the 2019/20 budget with the remainder there after. No completion date for the project is listed in the papers.
  3088D Beginner

I’ve lurked here and not posted before, but I live in Greensborough and have caught the train at this station for decades and know it all too well. A simple rebuilding of Greensborough station, as has been discussed here, would serve the purpose of supplying a modern building - and getting rid of the dreadful ramps, but fail to solve any of the public transport issues of the area. Banyule Council wants to see the station closer to Main Street and to upgrade the diabolically poor interchange with the many bus lines that hover, I’d hesitate to say converge, around the station (see their 2017 Greensborough Transport Masterplan). The Council, in fact, would like to see a sort of Box Hill type interchange but how that could work I’d leave to those who are interested in buses.

Some bus routes in Greensborough travel along Main Street and Diamond Creek Road, others come along Para Road and turn left into Main Street and vv. Few, however, call at stops close to the station and this ought to be a consideration in the rebuild. To achieve that there is only one option - to reposition the station, so don’t exclude the possibility that the location of the station might be amended to improve the connection with the bus stops and to bring the station closer to the Main Street shops.

This remedy might be called the ’Nunawading’ solution. The geography there is somewhat similar to the awkward array of streets around Greensborough Station. In the 2010 rebuild at Nunawading for the level crossing removal the station was moved an built in a cutting to straddle both sides of Springvale Road, with bus stops at three points so that passengers can enter the station at either end of the platforms and without having to cross Springvale Road. Station Street runs up to Springvale Road parallel to the rail line and again, as in Para Rd. Greensborough, some bus routes come along this minor road, but the stops are positioned so that they are near a station entrance.  

If Greensborough station was relocated one train length up to the Main Street road bridge, or even under it, bus passengers from all bus routes could then have quick access to the station: in a new off-road stop (leaving Greensborough) with stairs and a lift built over the new platform near the RSL building; at the existing stops outside the little row of shops on the other side of Main Street near Poulter Avenue (entering Greensborough); and at the existing stops either side of Para Road. Even the Flintoff Street/Para Road corner stops for the bus lines heading east are close for direct access at the other end of the platforms in this design. The tracks could also be lowered into a trench for the car park to be extended over the vacated station area, perhaps at two levels, and there would also be more space for parking on the Monty side of the current station where platform 1 currently extends to the south-east. Even Flintoff Street could be extended to serve as a southern entrance to this new car park. Everybody wins! However, I’m sure there are reasons why this plan might be difficult, cost being one of them. The new Nunawading station cost about $140 million, for example, although a lot of that must have been for the grade separation rather than the station itself.

Alternatively, I did hear some early speculation that the station might be rebuilt at road level closer to Para Road with the tracks moved to meet it, and the car park reconfigured accordingly. This does not improve the dreadful connections with the buses, some of which will remain a ten minute walk away up in the main street near the shopping centre. Banyule's document was written to persuade the government to improve this awful mess that has always existed at Greensbrough. If this chance is missed it will never be fixed. Is it too much also to ask for a drop-off zone? If you’ve battled your way up Poulter Avenue in peak hour and through the car park you have felt my pain.

Lastly, it was stated a while ago that the services currently starting and ending at Greensbrough would be moved down to Eltham when the duplication has been completed, and under this plan there would be no need for a termination track at Greensborough.
  electric Chief Train Controller

Location: Ist mir egal
Does anyone have an idea how the timetabling will work with trains every 6.5 minutes Greensborough, 10 minutes to Eltham and 20 to Hurstbridge, given that the line will be sharing with Mernda? Surely soon, the whole timetable for both lines will have to be run in 3 minute multiples to maximize capacity in the shared section?
  John.Z Chief Train Controller

Does anyone have an idea how the timetabling will work with trains every 6.5 minutes Greensborough, 10 minutes to Eltham and 20 to Hurstbridge, given that the line will be sharing with Mernda? Surely soon, the whole timetable for both lines will have to be run in 3 minute multiples to maximize capacity in the shared section?
electric
Train every 3.5 minutes currently between Jolimont and Clifton Hill. Extra 30s is to minimise delays at the junction, unlikely to ever change unless the junction is changed into a flyover.

I thought it was every 7mins to Greensborough, with every 2nd trains extended to Eltham and every 2nd Eltham train extended to Hurstbridge. (7/14/28 min frequency).
  Lockie91 Train Controller

Greensborough should definitely be moved to abut Main Road. Pedestrian underpass under main road to improve movements. Entrances on to Polter and Flintoff Street would tie in nicely with local bus services and better serve Greensborough Plaza which would only be a 300m walk away.

Council has invested significant money into Watermarc and Greensborough walk. This would compliment that work nicely. Let’s see if the state government is willing.
  electric Chief Train Controller

Location: Ist mir egal
Does anyone have an idea how the timetabling will work with trains every 6.5 minutes Greensborough, 10 minutes to Eltham and 20 to Hurstbridge, given that the line will be sharing with Mernda? Surely soon, the whole timetable for both lines will have to be run in 3 minute multiples to maximize capacity in the shared section?
Train every 3.5 minutes currently between Jolimont and Clifton Hill. Extra 30s is to minimise delays at the junction, unlikely to ever change unless the junction is changed into a flyover.

I thought it was every 7mins to Greensborough, with every 2nd trains extended to Eltham and every 2nd Eltham train extended to Hurstbridge. (7/14/28 min frequency).
John.Z

Thanks John - this is where I found the 6.5/10/20 mentioned - https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/projects/hurstbridge-line-upgrade
Something like you described is more what I expected, but it's a bit of a raw deal for the areas after Eltham - 28 minutes vs. 30 isn't an improvement, given the duplication between Diamond Creek and Wattle Glen is being done.
  LeroyW Junior Train Controller

Location: Awaiting MM2
Following on from 3088D's excellent post (it's a bit long to quote: https://www.railpage.com.au/f-p2146555.htm#2146555) I too have felt the burn as you storm down Poulter Ave from the buses to try and catch a train.  PTV's journer planner has it as a 7 minute walk!

Then the similar agony when your bus that is not synced to the train timetable leaves the Para Rd stop as you wait for the pedestrian lights.  So you can then watch it sit for several minutes only a few feet away as it waits in a queue of cars to turn into Main St.

It would be wondrous if the station was moved closer to Main St but then decked over to create a public plaza and bus interchange.
A bus-only continuation of Flintoff St could run for a few meters where the current pedestrian walkway is and then turn up towards Main St over the top of the station, creating a rectangular plaza and waiting area.

But I think that will be a dream too far...
  3088D Beginner

Well I’m impressed. The front-page article in this week’s local paper - Diamond Valley Leader - is a piece called “Train works steam ahead” which is supposed to be amusing.
The journalist, I think, has ideas beyond his station. It comments on last week’s state government budget, but adds the specific budgeted figure of $547 million to the Eltham-Greensborough duplication/new station project with, and this is the other bit, “a major bus interchange at Greensborough”. Where? It doesn’t say.  A betting person would go for the spot we were discussing over the tracks near the road bridge, and we are making the assumption that it will accommodate all bus services to and from Greensborough.

The Treasurer’s Suburban Budget Paper confirms the construction of "bigger, better stations" at Greensborough and Montmorency, so we might infer that the existing platform building at Monty will be replaced, though I couldn’t find any mention in the budget papers of this major bus interchange at Greensborough, spoken of earlier. There is a lot of information on other Melbourne rail projects on pages 112 to 115 of Budget Paper 3. Have to say, having used this station for several years it will look very odd to have a second platform there. It only took 96 years.

The newspaper article also reports that more car parking spaces will be created at Greensbrough and Eltham stations (they read my plan no doubt!) and that during the construction express busses to the city will be provided from Eltham, though they’d have to provide the same at Monty and Greensborough. Probably Watsonia also, and turn the trains around at Macleod.

I looked at the Level Crossing Removal Authority’s website a few days ago and they are organising local information sessions in the middle of the year, which is about now.

Looking at a train driver’s POV YouTube effort this week coming into Greensborough it seems to me that there isn’t sufficient space under the Main Street bridge for two tracks and a platform. If this is so they’d have to end the platform at the down side of the bridge. Or widen the bridge. That would be a big job. We shall see.

With regards to the line towards Eltham, has anyone looked at the tunnels and if they were provisioned with space for a second track?

Incidentally, I was outside the Eltham library today when a train trundled over the trestle bridge at about walking pace. Have to love it.
  trainbrain Deputy Commissioner

The trestle bridge at Elrham is more of a modern day hinderance and needs to go, then the Hurstbridge Line will reach its full potential.
  LeroyW Junior Train Controller

Location: Awaiting MM2
With regards to the line towards Eltham, has anyone looked at the tunnels and if they were provisioned with space for a second track?
3088D
From memory, the tunnel (probably better to call it a road overpass) at the Greensborough end of Sherbourne Rd is wide enough for two trains, as is the rail reserve all the way between Greensborough and Eltham.
The tunnel/overpass at Mountain View Rd has a wide enough deck for two trains but is only dug out wide enough for one, if that makes sense (there's basically rock where the second track would need to go).
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

Good luck terminating trains at Greensbourough on two platforms

3 TPH to Hurstbridge in Peak, trains every 20 mins


3 TPH to Eltham in Peak, trains every 10 mins

4 TPH to Greensborough In Peak, trains every 6/6.5 mins


Maybe a third platform will be built at Greensborough otherwise you need to turnaround quickly and operate with precision with metro is not good at
  Lockie91 Train Controller

Good luck terminating trains at Greensbourough on two platforms

3 TPH to Hurstbridge in Peak, trains every 20 mins


3 TPH to Eltham in Peak, trains every 10 mins

4 TPH to Greensborough In Peak, trains every 6/6.5 mins


Maybe a third platform will be built at Greensborough otherwise you need to turnaround quickly and operate with precision with metro is not good at
ptvcommuter
I would suspect that Greensbrough would get a third platform. Services would no longer terminate at Mecloud. Metro is not a fan of having their hands tied when it comes to operational flexibility. They would then be able to comfortably truncate services at Greensborough during disruptions or delays.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

The trestle bridge at Elrham is more of a modern day hinderance and needs to go, then the Hurstbridge Line will reach its full potential.
trainbrain
I think the elegant solution with the trestle bridge in the future will be like the Chandler bridge is Alphington. A new double-track bridge built beside the existing trestle bridge and the trestle bridge kept as a cycling path.

But this is not in the current scope of this project.
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

I think the elegant solution with the trestle bridge in the future will be like the Chandler bridge is Alphington. A new double-track bridge built beside the existing trestle bridge and the trestle bridge kept as a cycling path. But this is not in the current scope of this project.
True Believers

It's unfortunate that they are keeping the Chandler Bridge as a cycling path. I was hoping they would bring back the line in its former glory!
  3088D Beginner

I was down at Greensborough station this morning collecting someone and saw signs in the car park which said, "Car Park Closures Wednesday 12 June to Friday 12 July. Up to five car spaces per day will close at Greensborough Station for site investigations." it ended with a safety warning.

I didn't see these signs when I used the train yesterday. What I did see yesterday was a team of getting on to a dozen Metro staff in high-vis vests on the station grounds. Sounds like the site or soil testing is underway for future construction.
  trainbrain Deputy Commissioner

The trestle bridge at Elrham is more of a modern day hinderance and needs to go, then the Hurstbridge Line will reach its full potential.
I think the elegant solution with the trestle bridge in the future will be like the Chandler bridge is Alphington. A new double-track bridge built beside the existing trestle bridge and the trestle bridge kept as a cycling path.

But this is not in the current scope of this project.
True Believers
You have a good point there, then everybody is a winner.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
I think the elegant solution with the trestle bridge in the future will be like the Chandler bridge is Alphington. A new double-track bridge built beside the existing trestle bridge and the trestle bridge kept as a cycling path. But this is not in the current scope of this project.

It's unfortunate that they are keeping the Chandler Bridge as a cycling path. I was hoping they would bring back the line in its former glory!
reubstar6
The rail trail lobby strikes again!
  ngarner Train Controller

Location: Seville
Driving through from Eltham to Greensborough today there were numerous, portable, roadside signs warning of "LXRP (sic) works in the area". These would appear to be a little premature. Stage 2 is not scheduled to begin until 2020 (yes, it's not that far off really, now is it?) although if the money is allocated and the contractor(s) have time available why not start early?

Neil
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Driving through from Eltham to Greensborough today there were numerous, portable, roadside signs warning of "LXRP (sic) works in the area". These would appear to be a little premature. Stage 2 is not scheduled to begin until 2020 (yes, it's not that far off really, now is it?) although if the money is allocated and the contractor(s) have time available why not start early?

Neil
ngarner
"From May 2019, our team will investigate the geotechnical conditions and locate existing services along the rail line in Greensborough, Montmorency, Eltham and Diamond Creek. You may see workers out and about during this time, and small drilling rigs and trucks used for these works. These works will occur during regular construction hours of 7am to 5pm Monday to Friday."

https://levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/369863/Hurstbridge-Community-Update-A4_2PP_web.pdf

I'm assuming they're doing geotechnical drilling investigations.

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