Adani changes to narrow gauge

 
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
DD707,
Why don't you make a submission to build it as a broad gauge line?
Donald
maybe I am...Laughing

Sponsored advertisement

  Sunbird Station Master

There was an article in todays "Australian" about the Adani rail line. A rather dry business article with not much of interest but as the website is pay walled I thought I would paste it here for anyone who may be interested.

ADANI SETS UP NEW RAIL HAUL DIVISION

India's Adani has carved off its infrastructure business into a separate division as its Carmicheal coal mine in north Queensland progresses towards operation.
The establishment of the new division comes after Queensland's Labor government ended nine years of delays and ticked off on the last major environmental permit for the Carmicheal coal mine in June.
"Site works at the Carmicheal project are progressing well, with activities on both the mine and rail project moving ahead," Adani Mining chief executive Lucas Dow said on Friday.
"There's now over 150 people on site with more than 50 pieces of plant and equipment, including bulldozers, scrapers, graders, compactors, water carts and tractors."
"Works will continue to ramp up over the coming weeks and months."
Adani has appointed Trista Brohier as chief executive of its newly established infrastructure division, as it looks to maximise the value of its Australian port and rail assets.
Ms Brohier, who joined Adani Australia in April as head of commercial for Adani Mining, will head up the company's rail asset infrastructure, Carmicheal rail network below rail operations and above rail operations, as well as Abbot Point port operations.
Adani Australia chief executive Jeyakumr Janakaraj said Ms Brohier had already secured major contracts for the construction of the Carmicheal mine and rail project during her time with the company.
"Trista is an exceptional leader with significant depth of experience devising strategy and driving commercial success across a number of industries." he said.
Prior to joining Adani, Ms Brohier was head of alliance planning and asset management at BHP. She previously held senior finance roles in a number of organisations.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
It does seem clear from this Adani is planning its own trains or at the very least is making an each way bet between their own services and a 3rd party using the threat of their own services as a stalking horse.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
It does seem clear from this Adani is planning its own trains or at the very least is making an each way bet between their own services and a 3rd party using the threat of their own services as a stalking horse.
Go down both paths to keep all options on the table and get best price including operators and rolling stock operators.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

It does seem clear from this Adani is planning its own trains or at the very least is making an each way bet between their own services and a 3rd party using the threat of their own services as a stalking horse.
bevans

I'm not sure Adani has much choice but to provide its own above-rail rollingstock - the brand is now so despised that existing rail operators would be pretty shy about having their names associated with the project. Aurizon is already getting hammered for being in the process of negotiating track access for Adani - which, by law, Aurizon is required to do under current Competition Policy and legislation within the Trade Practices Act - the same laws that Adani's new line will also be subjected to.

Adani has a long history with trying to keep all of its operations within house and vertically integrated, so running its own trains may well have been the only option it ever considered. What it will use is probably the next big question - some thirty GT42CU-ACe equivalents or twenty-three GT46CU-ACe equivalents and close to 900 wagons will be needed at the mine's maximum production.
  emerald-a Locomotive Driver

Aurizon would certainly sign a deal if it made financial sense, it isn't like anybody against Adani is going to be differentiating it from the other thermal coal haulage they do.

All Adani need to do is get into production and protests will fall away and move onto  the next mine or highway or whatever becomes the next cause.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The plot thickens with this announcement https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/insurer-axis-capital-reportedly-pulls-bid-to-cover-adani-mines-rail-line where Adani Rail line will insurer has walked away.  Companies are becoming increasingly concerned about the of being seen to support coal rightly or wrongly.  

It will be interesting to see how Adani proceed from here with the insurance issue and how if at all they could get insurance.  I personally think they will but whjat this does potentially do is lift the price of the insurance to be provided by another vendor.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

The plot thickens with this announcement https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/insurer-axis-capital-reportedly-pulls-bid-to-cover-adani-mines-rail-line where Adani Rail line will insurer has walked away.  Companies are becoming increasingly concerned about the of being seen to support coal rightly or wrongly.  

It will be interesting to see how Adani proceed from here with the insurance issue and how if at all they could get insurance.  I personally think they will but whjat this does potentially do is lift the price of the insurance to be provided by another vendor.
bevans
I still reckon it won't happen.  Unless the Federal Govt underwrites or owns it, and Adani then leases it.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Nearly 60 companies plus Australian banks and superannuation funds have walked away from the Project.

Is it over ?
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Nearly 60 companies plus Australian banks and superannuation funds have walked away from the Project.

Is it over ?
freightgate
Almost.

Bob Katter is pushing for the Government to fully invest in and own the line.  But I suspect that even they want to keep it at arms length, even with pressure from Katter (who is courting the CFMEU) and locals like Matt Canavan etc.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
If the back of envelope calculations published widely are to be believed, perhaps these companies are just worried about being paid?
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
How does work commence when a company cannot provide a certificate of currency ?
  Big J Deputy Commissioner

Location: In Paradise
I support the development in this space.

However, it must stack up commercially without government support that is beyond any other development.

I am bit surprised in this thread once again assumptions are being made that it is over. No different to any other commercial venture.

My view is that while Adani may or may not proceed, others will. Maybe it will remove some of the unconscious racism that has been also part of the protests. My case in point, is where are the protestors locking contractors that have signed deals with GVK Hancock and the other Galilee developers?????? None.


While I do understand the majority of protestors are taking a stance, believing that this project will impact the great barrier reef (well that is wrong, physically no change as the shipping side of things continues with other ports in any case) or cause an increase in man made global warming (which I believe in), well Adani will simply substitute ( eg Indonesia) the source so it will have no net change in that case. So what is achieved Australia will not benefit from the development.

I will be interested to see if there is the same level of protesting once it is GVK Hancock because it is not Indian and it shouldn't receive greater government assistance over any other development?

I think Rocky and Townsville Councils were wrong in providing ratepayer support to Adani. However I am not against the project itself if it can stack up.

I think posters here think it is all over are wrong as they have been saying that for over three years.

Deals will be done, without input from us. Money is to be made. Don't stand between coin and a insurer. They will get one.

As I said in other posts, Australia needs to start working on a 20 year plan to move away from coal for energy use. Transition the workforce. Sadly our history is diabolical (eg the car manufacturing industry, aero industry etc). So when the greens say that green jobs are coming, I do not take comfort, as there is no committed plan. Platitudes do not work.

A fully funded, bi-partisan plan is required. Unfortunately that will never be achieved as our politicians like the divide and conquer model that is dominating now.

I wouldn't crow about Adani not proceeding. It ain't over.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
What are "Green Jobs" they talk of ?

Or are they taxpayer sponsored jobs, that cost more (to the Governments bottom line) than what they generate In taxes and flow on economic benefits.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
What are "Green Jobs" they talk of ?

Or are they taxpayer sponsored jobs, that cost more (to the Governments bottom line) than what they generate In taxes and flow on economic benefits.
Nightfire
Absolutely none. I lived in Tas during the 90's and the Green's wanted all the industry and mining gone with the promise of "Green Jobs", well none of the industry and Mining prevented Green Jobs and a reasonable chunk of the Industry and Mining left, the Green Jobs didn't magically appear. it continues to be why Young Tasmanian's who want to make anything of themselves career wise have a plane ticket booked for the day after they finish uni.
  Sunbird Station Master

So much debate in the media about the benefits or otherwise of the Adani mine revolves around how many jobs it would create yet the real benefit to Queensland is the royalties the state government gets from coal exports.
There is simple logic behind the idea of the government building and owning the railway line. If the government controls the railway they can easily facilitate more coal mines in the vicinity and subsequently more royalties for the state. This was how the Bowen basin was developed in the late sixties and seventies and the government has earned an absolute motza in royalties since then.
There is no reason the same business plan wouldn't work for the Galilee basin too.
The only thing that's changed is this idea that's taken hold that coal is no longer a viable energy source and will soon be replaced.
  Big J Deputy Commissioner

Location: In Paradise
So much debate in the media about the benefits or otherwise of the Adani mine revolves around how many jobs it would create yet the real benefit to Queensland is the royalties the state government gets from coal exports.
There is simple logic behind the idea of the government building and owning the railway line. If the government controls the railway they can easily facilitate more coal mines in the vicinity and subsequently more royalties for the state. This was how the Bowen basin was developed in the late sixties and seventies and the government has earned an absolute motza in royalties since then.
There is no reason the same business plan wouldn't work for the Galilee basin too.
The only thing that's changed is this idea that's taken hold that coal is no longer a viable energy source and will soon be replaced.
Sunbird
I agree.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Queensland govt would be big and ugly enough to fund and build it and reap a return.

But would they ?
  Sunbird Station Master

Queensland govt would be big and ugly enough to fund and build it and reap a return.

But would they ?
freightgate
Back when Adani had there much more expensive standard guage proposal on the table the one term LNP government (2012-2015) was willing to help fund it on the sound assumption that royalties from other mines would justify the expense.
The Labor opposition opposed it because they needed Green preferences (not such an issue now as they have reintroduced compulsory preferential voting).
Government funding is no longer needed as Adani are self funding a cheaper narrow guage line which will have open access as a condition of approval (so I guess Labor may have made the right call there).
She would never admit it but now that treasurer Jacki Trad has to fund the cross river rail without the money a Shorten government would have provided I bet she's keen on every coal royalty payment she can get.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Queensland govt would be big and ugly enough to fund and build it and reap a return.

But would they ?
Back when Adani had there much more expensive standard guage proposal on the table the one term LNP government (2012-2015) was willing to help fund it on the sound assumption that royalties from other mines would justify the expense.
The Labor opposition opposed it because they needed Green preferences (not such an issue now as they have reintroduced compulsory preferential voting).
Government funding is no longer needed as Adani are self funding a cheaper narrow guage line which will have open access as a condition of approval (so I guess Labor may have made the right call there).
She would never admit it but now that treasurer Jacki Trad has to fund the cross river rail without the money a Shorten government would have provided I bet she's keen on every coal royalty payment she can get.
Sunbird
Wasn't a fan of Newman, but he did start the state on the road to financial recovery, although a bit too abruptly. Anna P however has not capitalised on this and the state remains basically broke and they are going to forced to borrow more money to fund the CRR as no Fed govt including the former ALP will throw them a lifeboat and pay for most of it, which is what they asked for.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Queensland govt would be big and ugly enough to fund and build it and reap a return.

But would they ?
freightgate
with a big and ugly red ink at the bottom of the ledger.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
There is simple logic behind the idea of the government building and owning the railway line. If the government controls the railway they can easily facilitate more coal mines in the vicinity and subsequently more royalties for the state. This was how the Bowen basin was developed in the late sixties and seventies and the government has earned an absolute motza in royalties since then.
Sunbird
I understand where you are coming from, but there would only be a reason for government to get involved if there is a market failure.

This line, like the rest of the heavy haul (coal/iron ore) lines in Australia would probably be able to pay for itself in $$ terms.

If it made sense for the railway line to support multiple users/operators, then why don't all those users work together with Aurizon and develop a business plan to build the line for them all?

Given that this line should be profitable in its own right, i see no need for government to fund the building of this (ie subsidise its construction).
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
There is nothing stopping the Queensland government issuing bonds and building and operating the line pursuant to the customers making a return on the line and also on the royalties.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
There is nothing stopping the Queensland government issuing bonds and building and operating the line pursuant to the customers making a return on the line and also on the royalties.
bevans
Except that is not how government works anymore - they will only go there if there is judged to be a market failure, or poilitics makes them.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from: