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Labor to spend big on South Coast rail line by axing the F6 extension

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    Topic moved from News by bevans on 09 Nov 2018 15:10
      x31 Chief Commissioner

    Location: gallifrey
    WOW this will be a major upgrade to the network and shave a lot of time off the journey between Wollongong and Sydney and points south on the coast.  A much better idea than a road in this day and age.  Cannot believe NSW is still not learning from their mistakes and are still commissioning plans for toll roads.

    Labor to spend big on South Coast rail line by axing the F6 extension
    Posted: 09 Nov 2018 15:23

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      SinickleBird Chief Train Controller

    Location: Qantas Club at Mudgee International Airport
    Reads like a brain fart to me. Tells us a lot of they won’t do.

    If they aren’t going to tunnel, then what?

    An elevated railway extending the Cronulla line across Port Hacking and down the coast? Like a very long Seacliff Bridge?

    Spark Kiama to Bomaderry? Duplicate to Kiama?
    Posted: 09 Nov 2018 16:37
      simstrain Chief Commissioner

    yeah because nsw labor is a beacon of public transport. The reason why a tunnel won't be built is because it can't actually be built due to the coal mines and subsidence.
    Posted: 09 Nov 2018 20:17
      awsgc24 Minister for Railways

    Location: Sydney
    For diagram of Albion Park, see http://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Pdf%20files/Sydney/RC2419.pdf
    Posted: 09 Nov 2018 20:57
      simstrain Chief Commissioner

    people just need to accept there are barriers to a faster rail service and deal with it.
    Posted: 09 Nov 2018 22:11

    Last edited by simstrain on 09 Nov 2018 22:12; edited 1 time in total
      djf01 Chief Commissioner

    people just need to accept there are barriers to a faster rail service and deal with it.
    simstrain

    That attitude being one of them.
    Posted: 09 Nov 2018 22:34
      djf01 Chief Commissioner

    people just need to accept there are barriers to a faster rail service and deal with it.
    simstrain

    There was a caller on ABC local radio Illawarra who made an excellent point: It takes here 30min to drive from Thirroul to Sutherland (for ~42km @84kph), and 50min by rail (for 48km, or 57kph).  

    Surely there is *something* in between 55kph and building hyperloop.
    Posted: 09 Nov 2018 22:50
      simstrain Chief Commissioner

    people just need to accept there are barriers to a faster rail service and deal with it.

    There was a caller on ABC local radio Illawarra who made an excellent point: It takes here 30min to drive from Thirroul to Sutherland (for ~42km @84kph), and 50min by rail (for 48km, or 57kph).  

    Surely there is *something* in between 55kph and building hyperloop.
    djf01

    no there isn't. The motorway works because it runs on top of the escarpment and then climbs down a steep embankment at mt pleasant. As I said before trains can't do that grade unless they have a rack system like the ski tube or ropes like at the katoomba skyrail.

    The only place any sort of fast rail could be run is up on the escarpment and not down on the shore. The shore is extremely narrow and the cliff edges are steep. The current route is slow and meandering but aside from using old 19th century tunnels that would never meet modern safety standards there is no other option.
    Posted: 11 Nov 2018 08:17

    Last edited by simstrain on 11 Nov 2018 08:19; edited 1 time in total
      Valvegear Dr Beeching

    Location: Norda Fittazroy
    That attitude being one of them.
    "djf01"
    That is not attitude - it's informed comment.
    Posted: 11 Nov 2018 08:48
      djf01 Chief Commissioner

    That attitude being one of them.
    That is not attitude - it's informed comment.
    Valvegear

    Fair call,  Sorry @sims.
    Posted: 11 Nov 2018 08:58
      simstrain Chief Commissioner

    It isn't that I wouldn't like to see a faster rail route to wollongong and the south coast it is just reality setting in that it just isn't possible with all the obstacles in the way.
    Posted: 11 Nov 2018 10:57
      Travelling Hooker Locomotive Fireman

    Location: Follows the weather up and down the coast
    While I’m all for better rail links - and I use interurban and metropolitan rail a lot - a big city needs a proper road system and running the F6 up to join the freeway around the airport (or wherever they plan to do it)  is a no brainer. Roads and rail should be complementary rather standing off at 10 paces
    Posted: 11 Nov 2018 15:29
      RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

    Location: Dubai UAE
    WOW this will be a major upgrade to the network and shave a lot of time off the journey between Wollongong and Sydney and points south on the coast.  A much better idea than a road in this day and age.  Cannot believe NSW is still not learning from their mistakes and are still commissioning plans for toll roads.

    Labor to spend big on South Coast rail line by axing the F6 extension
    x31
    What we have learnt is that the neither can be ignored and there is not a country in the world building over upgrading roads to a modern standard.
    Posted: 11 Nov 2018 18:28
      RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

    Location: Dubai UAE
    The original almost direct tunnel built 100+ years ago by guys with a the technology of a pick and shovel is still there and by-passed by new route that meanders over the country side because it was easier for steam engines and duplicated at the same time. Some of the original rail tunnels are still in use on the single track section.

    Unless someone has evidence that the original tunnel corridor has subsided, then this corridor could be re-opened with some moderising but without major tunneling works.  Likely two new bores could be drilled either side of the old tunnel and the old tunnel used for maintenance and emergency access.

    The ongoing excuses on why the south coast line must remain in the 1920's are increasingly more pathetic with time. The other interurban corridors are not much better, but they are not this bad and the SC line needs a major rebuild and this more than likely includes a quad north of Sutherland to cope with more trains. The South Coast region has huge capacity to provide housing relief, however the PT to access it basically sucks and pushing impractical for anyone other than northern half!
    Posted: 11 Nov 2018 18:35
      42101 A end Junior Train Controller

    RTT
    How many times now over the years have you had it explained to you over and over and over about the conditions of  the South coast/Illawarra escapment and yet you still bang on about this idea of yours.

    Brighter and better Engineers and Geologists have looked at this area many times and said no its not a good idea.
    Posted: 11 Nov 2018 19:27
      simstrain Chief Commissioner

    Those old tunnels are booked out of service and are either mushroom farms or storage facilities. They would never meet modern safety standards and can not be grandfathered because they haven't been in use for nearly 100 years. So that is never going to happen. The issue with subsidence is already happening with the existing tunnels that are still in use and there are significant speed limits in that area. I have spoken to quite a few of my nsw trainlink buddies and they all agree that nothing can be done about a new line down to the south coast. They all agree that the only way a faster service can be provided is up on the escarpment.
    Posted: 11 Nov 2018 20:37
      doridori Chief Commissioner

    Yes, because the "It's too hard, let's just give in." mentality is what built this country!
    Posted: 11 Nov 2018 23:41
      djf01 Chief Commissioner

    ... I have spoken to quite a few of my nsw trainlink buddies and they all agree that nothing can be done about a new line down to the south coast. They all agree that the only way a faster service can be provided is up on the escarpment.
    simstrain

    I might have to revisit *my* "attitude" comment, if this is what stands for "informed comment": the collective front bar wisdom after an RTBU meeting Smile.

    Brighter and better Engineers and Geologists have looked at this area many times and said no its not a good idea.
    not simstrain

    I don't believe that is true.

    Since Corporatisation, and perhaps even earlier than that, the NSWGR (however they are currently names/constituted) has not had a charter to research, properly cost, recommend much less implement investment that would improve productivity, efficacy or anything else associated with the rail service.

    The structure's role (independent corporate with a standing contract with the gvt to sustain existing services) is explicitly there to ensure that the status quo is maintained and explicitly prevent grandiose empire building.  As I understand it, RailCorp (or whatever they are called now) does not maintain any substantial capability in this regard.  

    In short, it's no-one's job to investigate how the rail service might be improved, radically or incrementally (or cost effectively).  As a result, it never happens.
    Posted: 12 Nov 2018 10:01
      RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

    Location: Dubai UAE
    Those old tunnels are booked out of service and are either mushroom farms or storage facilities. They would never meet modern safety standards and can not be grandfathered because they haven't been in use for nearly 100 years. So that is never going to happen. The issue with subsidence is already happening with the existing tunnels that are still in use and there are significant speed limits in that area. I have spoken to quite a few of my nsw trainlink buddies and they all agree that nothing can be done about a new line down to the south coast. They all agree that the only way a faster service can be provided is up on the escarpment.
    simstrain
    How can we believe any of this.

    Name me one 1920's steam alignment that been "undone" by any NSW govt!

    Name me any location in the last 10+ years where a poor alignment in NSW has been realigned by any NSW govt!

    The NSW govt (collective) has a very string history with rail in not improving any alignment for a very long time. Its likely that the last time they did so was causing this mess and same on Main South and North Main in the first place.

    What is it that is "unsafe" about a 100 year old tunnel? Is part of the tunnel in a state of collapse? They have older ones still in service, yes continuous use means grandfathering of some issues, but not all. What is it that is "unsafe"? As I said above, get the old tunnel and modernise it!

    Also, what evidence exists that the abandoned tunnels are impacted by subsidence?

    In the past on this subject, some of your counter arguments to reusing the tunnels included annoying mushroom farmers, glow worm tourism, by-passing towns with daily usage of 100 people of less less than 10km from the original route. Hence while there maybe some validity to your statements, I'm very far from convinced.
    Posted: 12 Nov 2018 12:58
      42101 A end Junior Train Controller

    RTT
    Yes just you keep on pushing your theories its so good for a laugh.
    Posted: 12 Nov 2018 13:41
      Groover Train Controller

    Location: A long way from home
    Complete the Maldon-Dombarton line?  Stops: Central-Redfern-Airport-Revesby-Glenfield-Campbelltown-Macarthur-Wilton-Unanderra (x for Kiama)-Wollongong.  Plus takes freight off Illawarra?  Frees up paths Thirroul to Sydney on existing route but pushes capacity on Glenfield to Macarthur.  Fast running to Maldon.
    Posted: 12 Nov 2018 15:00
      simstrain Chief Commissioner

    I'm not talking about drivers DJF although I do know a few of those as well.
    Posted: 12 Nov 2018 15:09

    Last edited by simstrain on 12 Nov 2018 15:10; edited 1 time in total
      42101 A end Junior Train Controller

    Simstrain your wasting your time as he does not listen to others points of veiw and will continue to argue the point best to just let it go.
    Posted: 12 Nov 2018 15:17
      simstrain Chief Commissioner

    Simstrain your wasting your time as he does not listen to others points of veiw and will continue to argue the point best to just let it go.
    42101 A end

    I know. Those old tunnels can not be re activated just like platforms 1 and 2 at wynyard and the spare platforms at central and redfern. They aren't in active use and therefore can not be grandfathered in to service. In regards to the glow worms the government has gone to the expense of putting fencing up to protect them and so why would they then become the biggest vandals of all time in destroying the glow worms which are sensitive to light and therefore can not be moved as he has suggested.
    Posted: 12 Nov 2018 17:31

    Last edited by simstrain on 12 Nov 2018 17:33; edited 1 time in total
      RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

    Location: Dubai UAE
    RTT
    Yes just you keep on pushing your theories its so good for a laugh.
    42101 A end
    What theories?

    Show us some facts!

    Remember Sims previous argument included upsetting Glow worms, you think my theory is a laugh?

    The Maldon - Dombarton ROW is potentially impacted by mine subsidence, no one is flagging this cannot be built because of this (yes, I've read one report).
    Posted: 12 Nov 2018 18:12

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