NSW election thread 2019

 
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The parrot, Jones will be doing all that's possible to ensure a Glady's victory and won't he be most upset if Mike D brings home the bacon.

(another) Mike...not bringing home the bacon. Smile

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  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Well well, true to form, Alan Jones couldn't handle a good old touch up yesterday, he had to wheel out some "heavy hitters" from the LNP to help him out this morning - https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/alan-jones-returns-fire-on-michael-daley-after-sacking-threat-20190306-p5121q.html#comments, I mean fair dinkum, talk about all tip and no Iceberg LaughingLaughing

Kind Regards
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

I don't think it will matter who wins the next state election. They have started demolition work on the Stadium..... No matter who is in charge after the next election, the stadium tear down will be completed and the new one will be built.

Question is, will all the Labor promises of new lines be started or eventually built if they win the next election?

Methinks .... no...

Lots of crazy promises are made with respect to rail in every election, and not much happens.

Wouldn't surprise me if a Maglev is promised between Syd-Cbr-Mel....  or a tunnel connecting Central to Wollongong with nothing in between .... and electricifcation to Eden. .... anything for a vote.

Gladys has already committed the money on an XPT/XPL replacement, Interurban rubbish, nice shiny sets for the Sydney network, and the Metro rail.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
I don't think it will matter who wins the next state election. They have started demolition work on the Stadium..... No matter who is in charge after the next election, the stadium tear down will be completed and the new one will be built.

Question is, will all the Labor promises of new lines be started or eventually built if they win the next election?

Methinks .... no...

Lots of crazy promises are made with respect to rail in every election, and not much happens.

Wouldn't surprise me if a Maglev is promised between Syd-Cbr-Mel....  or a tunnel connecting Central to Wollongong with nothing in between .... and electricifcation to Eden. .... anything for a vote.

Gladys has already committed the money on an XPT/XPL replacement, Interurban rubbish, nice shiny sets for the Sydney network, and the Metro rail.
ANR
ALP was previously thrown out because they had a history of promising the moon and failing to delivery even a telescope.

LNP has a history of promising and mostly rolling out, even if you don't agree. This puts ALP on the back foot in having to out do what Glady's has promised and delivered without destroying the zero debt situation of NSW govt. There are however a few decisions made by Mike (yes another Mike) Baird who single handedly destroyed both his own and his parties public opinion and went from "could do no wrong", to "what can he do right" within two years. Gladys spent a bit of time fixing some of this, but should have done more.

The down side for Glady's is that she cannot capitalize on either the NWRL nor the SSELR projects successful operations and silence the nah sayers.

The question going forward is do like LNP/Glady's view for the next four years or believe ALP will actually deliver what they say.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The parrot, Jones will be doing all that's possible to ensure a Glady's victory and won't he be most upset if Mike D brings home the bacon.

(another) Mike...not bringing home the bacon. Smile
The Vinelander

You have no idea if you think Daley won this battle. He looked extremely foolish and things are not looking anywhere near as rosy. The new Parramatta stadium is finished construction and turf is being laid for an April NRL match. ANZ probably shouldn't be touched but allianz definitely needs a complete rebuild and the people of Sydney know this. I think you should stop commentating on things that you have no idea about.
  Airvan99 Junior Train Controller

^^ Sorry, I think it was a dumb move. Yes,it will play well with the people who already are rusted on.  But elections are about winning over people who didn’t vote for you last time, otherwise the result is the same. Donald is doing the same in the USA, playing to the core supporters. For some reason, AJ tops the ratings in this city and with that comes a lot of influence, and free air time.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
The parrot, Jones will be doing all that's possible to ensure a Glady's victory and won't he be most upset if Mike D brings home the bacon.

(another) Mike...not bringing home the bacon. Smile

You have no idea if you think Daley won this battle. He looked extremely foolish and things are not looking anywhere near as rosy. The new Parramatta stadium is finished construction and turf is being laid for an April NRL match. ANZ probably shouldn't be touched but allianz definitely needs a complete rebuild and the people of Sydney know this...
simstrain

Yes...bread and circuses have always been popular in NSW...it's just the way it's always been.

Reports vary widely regards the Opposition leader and his 'discussion' with the parrot...err Mr Jones. Mr Jones is not a popular figure despite his niche demographic and many people are glad he was very back footed by the quick thinking of his guest in Mike Daley.

Looking from afar...where there are no votes it's interesting sport I'm happy to contribute to on occasion...but suffice to say, no doubt Dan south of the Murray will be an interesting role model for Mike, north of the Murray should the electorate decide bye bye Gladys.

Mike
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

If the Gladys team goes, it will be a decision settled by electors purely on local issues. Gladys has carried herself professionally before and after she became Premier and she is highly competent.

The only problem is, both LIB/NP AND ALP will struggle to win seats outside of Sydney. The slow pace of growth in regional areas and the water mismanagement crisis in the far west (drought aside) is a failure of government and it is not just in NSW.

As I said in a previous post, there will be a cluster of independents, no matter who is in charge. If they join forces as a bloc, they will be running the state, and their electorates will be the primary beneficiaries.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
If the Gladys team goes, it will be a decision settled by electors purely on local issues. Gladys has carried herself professionally before and after she became Premier and she is highly competent.

The only problem is, both LIB/NP AND ALP will struggle to win seats outside of Sydney. The slow pace of growth in regional areas and the water mismanagement crisis in the far west (drought aside) is a failure of government and it is not just in NSW.

As I said in a previous post, there will be a cluster of independents, no matter who is in charge. If they join forces as a bloc, they will be running the state, and their electorates will be the primary beneficiaries.
ANR
What will be the killer knockout for Glady's and her team in my opinion, will be the light rail fiasco in Sydney, especially in the George Street part of town, where many business owner's have been affected, some have had to close their doors even.
Kind Regards
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
If the Gladys team goes, it will be a decision settled by electors purely on local issues. Gladys has carried herself professionally before and after she became Premier and she is highly competent.

The only problem is, both LIB/NP AND ALP will struggle to win seats outside of Sydney. The slow pace of growth in regional areas and the water mismanagement crisis in the far west (drought aside) is a failure of government and it is not just in NSW.

As I said in a previous post, there will be a cluster of independents, no matter who is in charge. If they join forces as a bloc, they will be running the state, and their electorates will be the primary beneficiaries.
What will be the killer knockout for Glady's and her team in my opinion, will be the light rail fiasco in Sydney, especially in the George Street part of town, where many business owner's have been affected, some have had to close their doors even.
Kind Regards
lsrailfan
Its a pity that a team that did so much will get tossed but there is also alot of baggage from a number of arrogant decisions made over last 4 years, mostly by "another mike" which is something to take note of and following in the foot steps of stupid mistakes at federal level in the past and present.

If "another Mike" does get in and does cancel the Bankstown Metro and speed of the Western Metro, its unlikely a bad outcome as just connect the Western Metro to Northern Metro at Central and cut 50% of the Parramatta DD's.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Its a pity that a team that did so much will get tossed but there is also alot of baggage from a number of arrogant decisions made over last 4 years, mostly by "another mike" which is something to take note of and following in the foot steps of stupid mistakes at federal level in the past and present.

If "another Mike" does get in and does cancel the Bankstown Metro and speed of the Western Metro, its unlikely a bad outcome as just connect the Western Metro to Northern Metro at Central and cut 50% of the Parramatta DD's.
RTT_Rules

Achieved so much eh?

The current gvt has presided over the longest and largest property boom in NSW history, yet there is a widespread perception - and I agree with it  - that we have been left with an infrastructure deficit as a result of repeated poor asset allocation decisions.

In the topics of interest to this website: Newcastle Closure/Hunter LRT, NWRL Metro (I know this divides opinion, but everyone knows where I stand), SE LRT, Westconnex, and even the recent CountryLink fleet replacement program choices - all smack of *very* poor asset allocation decision unduly (and in some cases I would say corruptly) influenced by Lib Party beatifications.

The stadiums issue could not exemplify this more: billions of public money to be squandered to benefit a few private corporate entities and "influentials" operating in the entertainment industry.  

Meanwhile, mum and dad in the vast majority of suburbs are seeing/suffering the adverse impact lack of investment in the existing infrastructure straining under the weight of population growth.  It's in schools, hospitals, non-toll roads, and (for this site) rail services that haven’t changed in decades despite two and three fold ridership increases.

We see this a lot in Australian political history.  After a prolonged period of sustained prosperity, a conservative government gets voted out for a more progressive (ie left) one the perception (usually correct) that the prosperity has been squandered disproportionately on the foible of the rich and the expense of the common man.  Think Whitlam, Hawke, Rudd, and in NSW Wran.  

Inevitably the long period of prosperity comes to an end, and it's usually the leftist government that gets saddled with that baggage, because they typically only get elected at the end of a boom cycle.

If NSW Labor win this election - and it should surprise no-one if they do (including the editors of the Liberal propaganda publication the Sydney Daily Telegraph) - they will have the same problem.  A decade of boom level stamp duty revenues squandered, and they will have to try and do something about it the very time these rivers of gold evaporate.

If the Libs scrape back in, they will have the same problem.  NSW Treasury is overly dependant on Stamp Duty revenue, which is highly dependant on the property market - both it's growth and associated turnover.  They are going to have to make some hard choices about spending, and it won't be popular.

All I can say is I'm disappointed Foley turned out to be an A-hole (or at very least, an A-Hole grabber), as his left of centre fiscal conservatism matches my personal position on most issues.  I have no idea if Daley will be the sort of Premier I'd prefer (ie leftist ideals implemented in a fiscally conservative way).  But I find it inconceivable he (or *anyone* really) could be worse the the current Premier, a lightweight populist who, IMHO, couldn't make a tough decision to save her pet poodle.

Like most people on this site, I believe in Public Transport.  But it's clear to me the the Libs, and the NSW Libs in particular do not.   (This has been the case for as long as I remember).  Their cynicism in their treatment of PT has been beyond appalling, and IMHO the Libs deserve to be booted out for this alone.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

Couldn't agree more djf01.  Having voted Liberal most of my life, I'm now totally disenchanted with the Liberals at both State and Federal level and I'm contemplating switching to the Dark Side.  If ever there was a case of the old adage that governments lose elections, oppositions don't win them, this would be a classic example.

Last night on the Leaders' debate on the ABC, moderator Bridget Glanville asked the Premier first up, why the LNP was level pegging with the Labor Party, when they should be streets ahead, because of their huge infrastructure program and the State's economy being in such could shape?  Gladys refused to answer the question, because she would not or could not.

I'll tell you why, because the electorate is much smarter than some people give them credit for.  The public in general has had enough of their ideological agenda of selling off public assets, particularly monopoly assets, where the promised reductions in costs to consumers have not always been realised.  They're short term fixes to fund infrastructure, but at the same time permanently eliminate ongoing income streams to fund recurrent expenditure, which have to be found elsewhere.

Another major issue which you touched on is their allocation of resources to inappropriate infrastructure choices, such as the C&SE Light rail project.  This should never have been contemplated in a major city the size of Sydney through the CBD in the first place, with all the inherent dislocation and damage to businesses along the route.  This is one example where an underground metro line should have been the first choice, even though more expensive, avoiding all of the surface disruption during construction.  The difference with Melbourne is that's it's already there.  That's the price we have to pay for ripping up our previous tram system.

Other examples include their disproportionate focus of resources on an inappropriate incompatible "metro" system to expand what is essentially a "suburban" rail system.  It's all very well to belatedly order more DD trains for the existing Sydney Trains' network to catch up with the surge in train patronage, but without a commensurate allocation of resources to upgrade and expand the existing network it's only going to create even greater congestion and increasing failure of the system to cope.  The metro expansion alone isn't going to cut it.  Their short sighted attitude is now coming home to bite them.

Finally, to add to this is their arrogant and dismissive attitude of anyone who dares challenge their objectives.  From my observation, for the most part, many of their so called community consultation processes are a joke, without any real consideration of genuine objections to a proposal.  Witness the North West Rail Link which morphed into the Metro Northwest without any prior consideration as an option in the original community consultation process.  Overwhelming objections to the metro proposal and confiscating the near new Epping to Chatswood Rail Link in later public consultation was completely ignored because the decision had already been made. Overwhelming objections to the Bankstown Line metro conversion were also similarly ignored.  Then there's the threat to close down the iconic Powerhouse Museum and shift it to Parramatta, for dubious reasons, again against the public's wishes.  The one thing that above all exemplifies their contempt for public opinion is their haste in demolishing Allianz Stadium before the election in the face of a majority who are against it.  This will be their death knell.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Couldn't agree more djf01.  Having voted Liberal most of my life, I'm now totally disenchanted with the Liberals at both State and Federal level and I'm contemplating switching to the Dark Side.  If ever there was a case of the old adage that governments lose elections, oppositions don't win them, this would be a classic example.
Transtopic


I'm more of a right leaning leftie than a left leaning rightie.  In part, that's because I believe there is a role for government, and it in places markets and free enterprise inherently fail: communal infrastructure.  Public transport, Health Care, Education, roads etc.  A government that is ideologically opposed to it's own role in society is a recipe for disaster, and I think our current federal government reflects this all too well.

Unfortunately, in Australia (moreso at Fed level than State) we have a tendency to give our governments one more term than they deserve.  I think this is true of every Fed gvt since I've been alive (and probably before that too): McMahon, Whitlam, Fraser, Hawk/Keating, Howard, Rudd/G/Rudd & the current lot all got one more term than they deserved, and were only booted out after demonstrated failure.

The same is absolutely true of the previous NSW ALP gvt: their third term was a corrupt shambles - and really only happened because the far right north shore Christian moonie faction of the Liberals installed "Abbott Lite" Peter Debnam ahead of the more palatable (ie centrist) candidate Fatty O'Barrel.

While I am very sceptical the ALP will be able to form a genuinely competent NSW government, I'm certain that if the Libs get another term it will make the Obied fiasco seem like petty shoplifting.  (A bit harsh?  If the Newcastle rail closure occurred in the Libs *first* term, WTF will happen in their third?  I rest my case my Lord)

BTW, I really hope Labor get in, primarily so I can be as hard on them as I have been on the current lot and this not seem as partisan as Shayne Smile
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Then there's the threat to close down the iconic Powerhouse Museum and shift it to Parramatta, for dubious reasons, again against the public's wishes.
Transtopic

I forgot that one.  I'm appalled by that as well.  Squillions of public money needlessly spent to move a facility I love somewhere I'll never be able to access it again, and for what???  So some Lib party donor can get cheap access to a new development apartment site.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Other examples include their disproportionate focus of resources on an inappropriate incompatible "metro" system to expand what is essentially a "suburban" rail system.
Transtopic

Obviously we are of a similar mind on this issue, but equally obviously this is not a universal Railpage view.  In any case, it's a nuanced argument lost on the non-gunzel voting public.

But how I think this plays politically is the Gladys B Gvt has allocated all the available rail funding resources to the marginals in the Hills district, and everyone else can go and get F****D.

On it's own this issue has little traction, but it (and the culmination of a lot of other decisions) makes the Stadiums issue so effective.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

I'm more of a right leaning leftie than a left leaning rightie.  
djf01
I think we're pretty much on the same page.  I also hope that Labor wins the State Election, even though I don't agree with all of their policies, particularly on roads.  I just want to get rid of the current bunch of incompetents because of their contempt for public opinion which runs against their ideological agenda.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

Then there's the threat to close down the iconic Powerhouse Museum and shift it to Parramatta, for dubious reasons, again against the public's wishes.

I forgot that one.  I'm appalled by that as well.  Squillions of public money needlessly spent to move a facility I love somewhere I'll never be able to access it again, and for what???  So some Lib party donor can get cheap access to a new development apartment site.
djf01
I also have a sneaking suspicion that an underlying sentiment is that this was a significant institution established under the Wran Labor government, so it doesn't warrant preservation.  If it had been established by a Liberal luminary, then who knows?  The Daily Terror tried to beat this up as the eastern Sydney elite against the down trodden westies, which completely ignores the practicalities and economics of actually relocating the museum's collection, as well as an inappropriate flood prone site at Parramatta.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

While I'm on a roll, if Labor wins the State Election, then the first bureaucrat I want to see dismissed is Rodd Staples, current Secretary of Transport for NSW.  He has been the driving force behind the metro agenda, at the expense of continuing investment in the existing rail network. He was also the architect behind the previous Labor government's disastrous North West Metro and Central to Rozelle Metro proposals. I don't think Labor will have much to thank him for for that.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
What inspiring posts djf01, I couldn't agree more and isn't it amazing that we have to live our respective...may I guess 4 or 5 decades of adult life to see this is how politics works in Australia. I wish to add, John Cain in Vic, Don Dunstan in SA and Wayne Goss in Qld as leaders of their governments who were inspiring and who got, or tried to make progress.

Though times have changed and in those days it wasn't about our concerns around provision of PT and associated infrastructure so much, which will continue to be flavour of the month for a long time...however those Premiers were leaders in changes to social policy and advancement.

IMO the only state Liberal leader in this mould was Rupert (Dick) Hamer in Victoria through the 1970's. Moreover we all remember John Howard's middle class welfare support for people who didn't need it and who squealed loudly when it had to be 'adjusted' under Kevin '07.

Mike.
  ANR Assistant Commissioner

It was an interesting morning with Gladys and Daley rallying to their party faithful.

Gladys made a very good speech, but Michael hit all the hot buttons with his speech.

Noteworthy remarks were made in connection to the water mismanagement out on the Darling River and the forgotten and neglected regional areas by the Nationals. He did explicitly say that Gladys cannot see a state beyond Sydney.

The extract from the article further below underscores what I have been saying about regional areas grabbing the balance of power after the next state election. We could see anything ..... I think the inner city will vote Labor due to the tram fiasco, and the M4 extension nightmare for residents. The country folk will go independent.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/politics/masterstroke-behind-labors-secret-plan-to-topple-alan-jones/news-story/b632cb10a8d8f6290aa8b962dbb1eef9#

"Mr Daley was relying on a ripple effect to reach country voters all the way to Bourke and beyond who are already pi$$ed off at a government that went ballistic over dead greyhounds and did nothing about dead fish.
These communities will never vote Labor but they will vote independent or for minor parties, as they already have in the former Coalition strongholds of Wagga and Orange. And they will be far more inclined to vote for that way if they think Labor is a chance of forcing a hung parliament."
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
A few corrections to some above comments

Mike,
John Cain almost bankrupt Vic and you call that inspiring. He may not have sold the farm but he leased every thing he could to prop up the govt and should we start on Pyramid? The Left love to blame J.K. for closing everything, but taking over Vic going into a recession they didn't have alot of choice. I remember Melbourne's 25% office vacant rate.

Goss took over from the Joe era, Qld needed alot of change to move forward, so yes he started the process to moderise Qld.

Transtopic
Selling assets, where do you draw the line? Should the govt therefore not Nationalise Petrol stations and Shopping centres, what about local milkbar, what about the mining sector?  Think of all that recurring revenue, Certainly the champions of Nationalization in Venezuela thought so, now look at them now.

The simple answer is the role of Govt is to goven, not run enterprise. They have proven globally they are generally not every good at it! How many examples of govt F'ups in former Australian govt state or Fed do we need to go through to demonstrate this. Squandering cash reserves, setting rates below replacement cost, election year not price rises, year after double that.  The issue in some govt sectors that have clearly suffered through privatisation is lack of suitable regulation by the govt as well as going down the path without understanding what they are actually doing. ie trying to sell the likes of V/line, Tasrail and ANR NG operations.

Govt run enterprise is fine when there is a lack of viable competition and typically, in the case of banking, shipping, printing press, telephones etc there is more than enough competition for the sector to not need direct govt involvement and just govt policy for the industry.

As for the SSELR, yes it should not have been built, they should have extended the ESR. You can thank the Leftie Sydney Lord Mayor for that one. I also hope that this project puts any govt off from building another one anytime soon, including the Carlingford Line conversion.

As for focus on Metro and its so called incompatibility, are you serious? All through RP you see post after post of people complaining teh govt doesn't spend enough on rail. But all too often we forget that Australia's Rail commuter networks are the most expensive to run in the world. Labour intensive, costly to build, costly to run. Its not that the govt cannot afford to build more, its more they cannot afford to run more.  Brisbane's network is pushing $1B a year subsidy, the subsidy is so high you have to wonder why they bother to issue tickets. The current practices in all states is simply not working, we need to try something else, especially as nearly all expansion is now underground . Lower construction cost, lower operating cost, dedicated lines, not tangled, automation, Metro style trains on regular frequency is the future for trips up to 30-45min from the city. The Suburban system we have today is built like a regional network, not a system fit for a city growing to 10m people within 25-30 years. The fact that the ALP went down this path seems to indicate that its probably not wrong.


Dij01,
Re: Newcastle Line closure. I think I have been very clear on my opposition to this, however if the LNP hadn't won in 2011, do you really think trains would still be running today. The problem for the Newcastle Line in 2011 is that it had almost no support from either side of politics. Personal opinion is that if the Newcastle CBD does in fact grow and move towards more medium and high density housing I expect it will be rebuilt in 20-30 years if that long as a simple tunnel extension with a single terminus station as it should have been in the first place.


Yes, lets think Whitlam, Hawke, Rudd, and in NSW Wran.
Wran - left NSW almost bankrupt, fortunately an election stopped more damage, sold the future freeway corridors, cancelled the ESR project at BJ, squandered the NSW ELCOM's cash reserves and left NSW in rolling blackouts.

Whitlam - really, you want to reference him, serious? left Australia almost bankrupt, record inflation and interest rates. Did so well he has gone down in history of being the only PM to be fired by the Governer General and his decision later backed up by the Australian People.

Hawke - Finally someone wants to reference a leader that actually didn't leave the country or state bankrupt and recongnised that these govt run stale union corruption riden govt enterprises had to go. However the bulk of the Fed govts assets to be ever sold happened during his term and what he started but didn't finish, Howard did.

As for the ALP left to clean up the mess? Seriously?
On a Fed level, did Keating leave the govt books balanced on departure, did Rudd/Gillard/Rudd?
On a state level, did Wran, former ALP before now, Vic, hell look at Qld's record debt levels, SA?

The one clear exception is ironically in Tas, 80's LNP Grey govt left the state very close to bankruptcy, books almost balanced in a recession by a single term ALP govt, who was so loved by the brotherhood they dumped him at next election for doing so.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Dij01,
Re: Newcastle Line closure. I think I have been very clear on my opposition to this, however if the LNP hadn't won in 2011, do you really think trains would still be running today. The problem for the Newcastle Line in 2011 is that it had almost no support from either side of politics.
RTT_Rules


The problem with the Newcastle Line some greedy developers who owned land adjacent the corridor successfully "lobbied" to have it closed for their own financial betterment.

Half a billion dollars of taxpayers money had to be spent on a near useless token LRT system to appease the voters of Newcastle who were rightly outraged at this wanton use/abuse of power.

As far as I'm concerned, the people behind that decision should be sharing a cell with Obeid.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Dij01,
Re: Newcastle Line closure. I think I have been very clear on my opposition to this, however if the LNP hadn't won in 2011, do you really think trains would still be running today. The problem for the Newcastle Line in 2011 is that it had almost no support from either side of politics.


The problem with the Newcastle Line some greedy developers who owned land adjacent the corridor successfully "lobbied" to have it closed for their own financial betterment.

Half a billion dollars of taxpayers money had to be spent on a near useless token LRT system to appease the voters of Newcastle who were rightly outraged at this wanton use/abuse of power.

As far as I'm concerned, the people behind that decision should be sharing a cell with Obeid.
djf01
Won't get an argument from me.

My only comment was the HR line was going to close regardless of who won govt. Perhaps the former govts never ending procrastination on anything rail may have actually saved it, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Had the ALP closed it you wouldn't have a tram line, rather rapid bus line (have to wonder which is actually the best outcome) and would they have truncated the line or just completely closed the whole branch.

There are clear signs the LNP govt for last 8 years is one of too much money and thus some of the more hair brained schemes have actually become a reality. Where as under ALP, they struggled to even get the valid projects any head way, something even the Fed ALP picked up on and refused to fund almost any proposal to lack of belief they will actually make it happen.

As I said before, perhaps in 20 years or so when the tram life is near expired, the decision will be made to return trains to Newcastle?

Someone commented recently that the lack of commonality between the Newcastle and Sydney trams was stupid. If we think these short trams in Newcastle will be under used, what the hell would have happened if they used a SSELR tram?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
A few corrections to some above comments


Whitlam - really, you want to reference him, serious? left Australia almost bankrupt, record inflation and interest rates. Did so well he has gone down in history of being the only PM to be fired by the Governer General and his decision later backed up by the Australian People.
RTT_Rules

I'm going to ignore most of what you have written Shane...suffice to say I'm also not going to sit here all night to rebuke the nonsense you have written about Labor governments which was well documented by the right leaning Murdoch media and conservative politicians for the past 40 years or so.

However suffice to say, Gough Whitlam was elected less than 1 year before the 1973 oil crisis where the world price of oil nearly doubled and supply severely restricted and you have the gall to blame Gough for Australia's economy of that time.

https://www.thebalance.com/opec-oil-embargo-causes-and-effects-of-the-crisis-3305806

Moreover...and particularly for our younger posters...take a look and digest what Gough Whitlam's government achieved in 3 short years, with a hostile Opposition and Senate. The achievements are astounding Exclamation

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/gough-whitlam-left-a-long-list-of-achievements-20141021-119cpu.html

Mike.
  Transtopic Assistant Commissioner

A few corrections to some above comments

Transtopic
Selling assets, where do you draw the line? Should the govt therefore not Nationalise Petrol stations and Shopping centres, what about local milkbar, what about the mining sector?  Think of all that recurring revenue, Certainly the champions of Nationalization in Venezuela thought so, now look at them now.

The simple answer is the role of Govt is to goven, not run enterprise. They have proven globally they are generally not every good at it! How many examples of govt F'ups in former Australian govt state or Fed do we need to go through to demonstrate this. Squandering cash reserves, setting rates below replacement cost, election year not price rises, year after double that.  The issue in some govt sectors that have clearly suffered through privatisation is lack of suitable regulation by the govt as well as going down the path without understanding what they are actually doing. ie trying to sell the likes of V/line, Tasrail and ANR NG operations.

Govt run enterprise is fine when there is a lack of viable competition and typically, in the case of banking, shipping, printing press, telephones etc there is more than enough competition for the sector to not need direct govt involvement and just govt policy for the industry.

RTT_Rules
Did I suggest Nationalisation?  No, I didn't.  You've twisted my comments to suit your argument.  You're really scraping the bottom of the barrel Shayne to suggest that.

Of course there's no role for government in running enterprises such as banking, insurance and airlines amongst other things, in which there's a competitive market in private enterprise.  What I'm against is the privatisation of government monopoly services, which should be operated in the public interest, not in the interest of shareholders.  Where do you stop?  Do you privatise the Tax Office, the Treasury or the Parliament itself, which is clearly absurd?  Would you prefer the government to be privatised and run by the corporate sector?  Give me a break!

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