The ongoing issues with escalators at Southern Cross

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I myself have seen the escalators at Southern Cross out for maintenance/repair for long periods (6 weeks in one instance).  It is worrying if not perplexing why we have these issues when clearly SCS should or ought to have a maintenance agreement with an escalator repair company who can be called upon to get the system working.

This from yesterday.

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  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
I myself have seen the escalators at Southern Cross out for maintenance/repair for long periods (6 weeks in one instance).  It is worrying if not perplexing why we have these issues when clearly SCS should or ought to have a maintenance agreement with an escalator repair company who can be called upon to get the system working.

This from yesterday.

bevans
Didn't they tender out the contract last year and it was one by a different mob to previous?

"we'll do it cheaper" they said. What they didn't say was how long it would take them to get around to it.

BG
  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Saw some speculation on Facebook/Twitter that the escalators were a custom build rather than an off-the-shelf model, and that the delay is due to a part being required that’s not in the country.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Saw some speculation on Facebook/Twitter that the escalators were a custom build rather than an off-the-shelf model, and that the delay is due to a part being required that’s not in the country.
potatoinmymouth
Who owns / is responsible for the escalators, Southern Cross Station / Infranexus or PTV/Metro/Vline?

BG
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Saw some speculation on Facebook/Twitter that the escalators were a custom build rather than an off-the-shelf model, and that the delay is due to a part being required that’s not in the country.
potatoinmymouth

If this were the case and I don;t dispute it all the contracts for support I have been involved in require the maintenance vendor to have targets for service restoration and therefore the vendor must keep parts in the country accessible and in a manner which enables the maintenance company to meet it's contractual obligations.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Saw some speculation on Facebook/Twitter that the escalators were a custom build rather than an off-the-shelf model, and that the delay is due to a part being required that’s not in the country.

If this were the case and I don;t dispute it all the contracts for support I have been involved in require the maintenance vendor to have targets for service restoration and therefore the vendor must keep parts in the country accessible and in a manner which enables the maintenance company to meet it's contractual obligations.
bevans
You would remember from your experience, though, that the specifications in a Service Level Agreement are subject to negotiation and agreement between the customer and the vendor. They aren't set unilaterally.

If the contractor will be required to procure and holding a large inventory of custom parts to meet the desired level of service, then the price of the SLA is going to go up. If the customer does not wish to pay the higher price, they will have to agree to longer delivery times or the contractor is going to walk away from the negotiations.

For all we know, the owner/operator of these escalators has decided that keeping the price down is a higher priority than getting them fixed quickly, and has negotiated their SLA on that basis. After all, they do have another set at the other end of the platform.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

And there are dozens of officers there each day to redirect the punters away from the faulty escalators.  Any savings they may have had with a cheaper contract would've evaporated very quickly.

Muppets.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
You would remember from your experience, though, that the specifications in a Service Level Agreement are subject to negotiation and agreement between the customer and the vendor. They aren't set unilaterally.

If the contractor will be required to procure and holding a large inventory of custom parts to meet the desired level of service, then the price of the SLA is going to go up. If the customer does not wish to pay the higher price, they will have to agree to longer delivery times or the contractor is going to walk away from the negotiations.

For all we know, the owner/operator of these escalators has decided that keeping the price down is a higher priority than getting them fixed quickly, and has negotiated their SLA on that basis. After all, they do have another set at the other end of the platform.
justapassenger

I tend to agree and my response was I admit one where a government would expect the facilities at the heart of moving passengers safely from platform to concourse and vv would be available with minimal downtime.  Spares holding is surely something at the heart of all maintenance contracts.

This just through on twitter.

  potatoinmymouth Chief Commissioner

Would definitely be owned/contracted by Southern Cross Station, but the contractual situation would be complicated by some sort of requirement for this being in the PPP. Two seperate contracts, but SCS isn’t necessarily free to make a decision on the usual commercial bases.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
And also think of the pressure this is placing on metro trains and their passengers.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
Would definitely be owned/contracted by Southern Cross Station, but the contractual situation would be complicated by some sort of requirement for this being in the PPP. Two seperate contracts, but SCS isn’t necessarily free to make a decision on the usual commercial bases.
potatoinmymouth
Is this the quality of service & accountability that we can expect - when the "AirRail Melbourne" consortium get their hands on the Airport Rail?

With $5B from Feds and $5B from Vic, they should both tell the PPP guys to stick their extra money, and work to a plan that doesn't just build a bigger shopping centre.

cheers
John
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
You wouldn't mind so much if there was something new about escalators, but I rode on them when I was a nipper, and that's over six decades ago.
It stinks of "buy the cheapest we can find."
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
You wouldn't mind so much if there was something new about escalators, but I rode on them when I was a nipper, and that's over six decades ago.
It stinks of "buy the cheapest we can find."
Valvegear

Bingo which seems to ring true across all things rail in this state.  No pressure to actually solve the problem in a reasonable period of time.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I tend to agree and my response was I admit one where a government would expect the facilities at the heart of moving passengers safely from platform to concourse and vv would be available with minimal downtime.
bevans
That sounds like a lovely idea, but isn't this in Victoria where the lunatics bean counters are in charge of the asylum public transport system?

Spares holding is surely something at the heart of all maintenance contracts.
bevans
That sounds a little weird to me.

I've only ever come across service agreements where the time to get the repairs is specified, not the details of how the provider would handle their inventory. If the job is getting done as the contract requires, it shouldn't be any of the customer's business whether the parts used to fix the faults were shipped from stock held in Keilor Park or Kuala Lumpur.

The decision that the customer does need to make is on how high a level of service they are happy to pay for. At the end of the day, they are the only ones who can weigh up the options offered (e.g. high cost for guaranteed low downtime, low cost for risk of higher downtime, some option in the middle for both) by the contractor/s and decide which one does the best job of meeting their priorities.

This being Victoria, I'm sure the aforementioned bean counters think that having sets at both ends of the platform means a bit of downtime is no big deal and that the cheaper option is worth taking because they can divert the difference to a road upgrade.
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
You're all missing the point.
They're cheap crap made in China. All elevator/ escalator companies do it. Other parts of the industry come from Europe, USA, Japan.

Go to your shopping centre with a Myers. What escalators do they have?? Either the O&K or Otis ones. Even the City Loop stations have the old Otis ones. Point is, these were all built like a brick you know what, and go forever. Can't get parts for them BUT THE PARTS DIDNT EFFING BREAK!!

Nowadays it's all cheap crap made in the same facility with a different badge on it AND it's all got to come from overseas.

You wanna blame someone - start with effing accountants. They're the pr1cks responsible for this. Why?? Parts cost money. Spare parts are wasted money, and shelf space to hold parts that are wasted money - is more wasted money.

Try having a sane discussion with one of these oxygen thieves, and they'll start having conniptions. I truely recommend this if you've not had the pleasure.

Ever heard of manufacturing for something just in time. That's called wait till the last minute. Same goes for spare parts. Just order one when we need it, so the COST is minimal. Oh, what about the down time and inconvenience - bad luck. I can wiggle out of any clause you've got re holding spare parts;
- we've used the last one, they're obsolete (industry speak for drop your pants - you need a whole new one!!)
- we're waiting on the part to come in from overseas.
- we haven't received it yet.

Then, you're also dealing with the internal machinations of the service provider who pays bonuses to their service reps. These mongs get paid bonuses to NOT spend money on parts etc for the service guys to do their job ????.

But, the real kick to the balls.............
Well, we're going to give the service to someone else. That's going to teach you. ???? No, the other mobs are just as bad if not worse. AND if they're not the original equipment manufacturer AND they haven't got a spare whatever to raid the required parts off (they have accountants too), then you get to bend over again.

And so the cycle of the self licking ice cream continues.

Regards
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
Oh, the punchline.  Sorry.

They don't make em like they used to, and with escalators they need to.

Flimsy crap not designed and built for the purpose is always going to have a reduced lifespan.

Pretty sure these may have.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
You wanna blame someone - start with effing accountants. They're the pr1cks responsible for this. Why?? Parts cost money. Spare parts are wasted money, and shelf space to hold parts that are wasted money - is more wasted money.
"davesvline"
I often wonder why accountants have a spare wheel in the car - costs money and takes up space.
  historian Deputy Commissioner

You wanna blame someone - start with effing accountants. They're the pr1cks responsible for this. Why?? Parts cost money. Spare parts are wasted money, and shelf space to hold parts that are wasted money - is more wasted money.
I often wonder why accountants have a spare wheel in the car - costs money and takes up space.
Valvegear
You very likely don't have a spare wheel. Most cars have a 'space saver wheel' - imho not the same thing at all.

And you have a space saver wheel for exactly the reasons that davesvline identified - accountants. The wheel is cheaper. The car structure might be a little cheaper. (It's also great for the wheel industry as well.)
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
You very likely don't have a spare wheel. Most cars have a 'space saver wheel' - imho not the same thing at all.
"historian"
In many cases; yes. In my case; no ( but we digress!)
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
So now we know who is at fault

  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
You very likely don't have a spare wheel. Most cars have a 'space saver wheel' - imho not the same thing at all.
In many cases; yes. In my case; no ( but we digress!)
Valvegear

Or in my case NO spare at all. The MINI has run-flat tyres.

Mike...(digressing further)
  Madjikthise Deputy Commissioner

Now the lifts at Flagstaff are out of action for a week. Fun times.
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Now the lifts at Flagstaff are out of action for a week. Fun times.
Madjikthise

Again?  They were out of service late last year for weeks.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

For goodness sake!  If these escalators were at Myer, David Jones, or Chaddy, they would be repaired in no time.

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