Cartoonist Michael Leunig - Cancelled

 
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Perhaps you could ponder these abstractions instead:

Where would these places have been built?
How many would be built?
For how many people each?
At what cost?
Where would the staff come from?
Why would those staff be so keen to not see their families for MONTHS on end?
How much would the staff need to be paid to be away from their families for that long?
For the arrivals that became truly ill how do you get them to hospitals quickly?
  If you more or less have a hospital on site:
  a) Where did that money come from?
  b) Why do those Drs and nurses not want to see their families for MONTHS on end?
  c) How much are you paying them to be away from their families for that long?
Where does the food come from?

Depending on how you answer those there are still more questions.

The system of hotel quarantine was fine, certainly better than what you propose, the root cause of the long lockdowns in Victoria were the lack of curtailment of movement in the population.
Aaron
What do you mean "ponder these abstractions"? The Victorian one would be in Mickleham, see this page. The Queensland government is also building one.
No, the system of hotel quarantine is not as good as what the Victorian, Queensland and Western Australian governments are proposing - an epidemiologist, Mary-Louise McLaws, said so.
What is the "lack of curtailment of movement"? This year, due to variants of concern and inadequate hotel ventilation, there have been multiple cases of these variants escaping quarantine and snap lockdowns due to them.

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  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
...no Covid vaccine available today prevents transmission, no vaccine manufacturer has ever claimed that their vaccine could.
This is the same with all vaccines, take vaccines against polio and measles.
Myrtone
We have discussed this before.

Consider two dice, one numbered with two of each number 1-3, another numbered with only six 1s. Rolling a 4 is the perfect result you're looking for, 2 and above is 'good enough' but a number 1 is still okay.

Clearly neither is going to give you a perfect result, but you have a lot more chance of getting close to the 'perfect' 4 with the 1-3 die than you do with the 1 only die. The 1-3 die will be 'good enough' 2/3 of the time, but the other die will never achieve those numbers.

The 1-3 die is like the Prevenar/Infanrix/Pneumovax/Gardasil vaccines, the die with only the 1s is like the current range of Covid vaccines (and BCG vaccine in adults).
Aaron

Not all vaccines are created with equal efficacy.


You cannot show us a place where high vaccination rate has eliminated community transmission. That is admittedly a partial calling of your bluff, I certainly cannot be bothered attempting to chase down your potential facts from myth. I don't know for sure that vaccination has not lead to zero community transmissions but I am making a good guess based on knowledge of how the vaccines work, and more subtly banking on the fact that if you actually had evidence of this you would have just mentioned a case, instead of vaguely saying 'many cases' and hoping the rest of us would automatically accept it.
We can find many places where this has been done with measles, even though the M.M.R vaccine is also less than 100% effective.
Myrtone
Tell us where the MMR vaccine is indicated for use against Covid? Again, as mentioned above, not all vaccines are created equally. There are several colloquial sayings we use to describe similar situations at my work - 'You have to piss with the cock you've got', 'smoke em if you've got em', basically saying we use what we have on hand, sometimes it's not ideal, but all you've got.


If anyone in any of those states becomes infected with the virus it is virtually guaranteed that their infection would be from a domestic source rather than foreign.
Unless a quarantine worker gets infected or some escaping quarantine infects someone else.
Myrtone
They're still unlikely to be Chinese resident, if they're here they're probably Australian resident.


So what is the chance of a Chinese sourced infection anywhere in Australia (or NZ since you included them) occurring 'right now'?
It could happen in quarantine or if someone returning from there escapes quarantine. However, along with New Zealand, we were one of the few countries to stop travel from mainland China at a point when practically all infections in the world were Chinese sourced.
Myrtone
Still waiting for Chinese resident to arrive, let alone 'escape' quarantine.

The United Arab Emirates has a population of over 9 million and only recorded 88 new cases yesterday.
Myrtone
Are they contact tracing? Are they actively testing? You cannot see a case you're not testing for.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
If a dice has 6 ones, then 1 is the only number than can be rolled and I'm sorry, this is not like even COVID-19 vaccines, transmission among the vaccinated is a lot less common than among the unvaccinated. Transmission of measles does not occur in areas with a high enough M.M.R vaccine uptake. Likewise, COVID-19 might well be eliminated from areas with a high enough COVID-19 vaccine uptake across all age groups, that's higher than the U.A.E has now.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
You hate people with intellectual disabilities, I get it.
don_dunstan
What percentage of them do I 'hate', don?

Some of them or all of them?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
I'm sure that Aaron, with his excellent grasp of statistics would appreciate the story about the deer hunters - a teacher, a doctor and a statistician.
A deer was sighted, the doctor took a shot and missed by a metre to the right. The teacher took his shot and missed by a metre to the left. "Got him", said the statistician.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
I had a scroll back to the 28th, and noted some comments by the Representative of the South Australian Intelligentsia.

My observations are in upper case.

“I was hanging onto one data point because it's indicative of what's really going on - haven't been able to find any references to Victorian suicide rates during lock-down because they're simply not available. “ WRONG.

“You don't have a business, Aaron, you're another one of these public servants on this board who doesn't know what all the fuss is about when there's a lockdown.” WRONG.

“Obviously you don't have enough real work to do.” WRONG.

“You work in a program set up and wholly-funded by taxpayers.” WRONG.

“He said that the suicide rate in 2021 was definitely the same as it was in 2020 and then couldn't produce numbers to support that assertion so he changed the goal-posts.” WRONG.

“The reason why you think lock-downs are the right strategy is because you don't know anyone who has suffered, lost businesses, lost livelihoods or their house from it - it doesn't affect you - you can't see those people and therefore you don't care. You live in a bubble not exposed to the economic realities that other people are.” COMPLETE GUESSWORK.


That's not a bad record for three days is it?  I suspect most people would consider it to be a total cock-up.
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
I had a scroll back to the 28th, and noted some comments by the Representative of the South Australian Intelligentsia.

My observations are in upper case.

“I was hanging onto one data point because it's indicative of what's really going on - haven't been able to find any references to Victorian suicide rates during lock-down because they're simply not available. “ WRONG.

“You don't have a business, Aaron, you're another one of these public servants on this board who doesn't know what all the fuss is about when there's a lockdown.” WRONG.

“Obviously you don't have enough real work to do.” WRONG.

“You work in a program set up and wholly-funded by taxpayers.” WRONG.

“He said that the suicide rate in 2021 was definitely the same as it was in 2020 and then couldn't produce numbers to support that assertion so he changed the goal-posts.” WRONG.

“The reason why you think lock-downs are the right strategy is because you don't know anyone who has suffered, lost businesses, lost livelihoods or their house from it - it doesn't affect you - you can't see those people and therefore you don't care. You live in a bubble not exposed to the economic realities that other people are.” COMPLETE GUESSWORK.


That's not a bad record for three days is it?  I suspect most people would consider it to be a total cock-up.
Valvegear
There would also be a massive suicide uptick after the Victorian Lockdown's, again, WRONG, I tried to pinpoint exactly where Don said that, it's buried somewhere back in the Covid-19 Thread.
  emmastreet Chief Train Controller

Location: Goulburn Valley
It appears Michael Leunig has also been cancelled on RP.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
He draw a picture of mum and a kid watching a sunset on the television when a real one was happening outside. Irony. A one trick pony in my book. Good riddance to him.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
PRO TIP - Whilst all of that is totally true, I am not actually going to tell you Don - it's a secret.
Aaron
I don't care what the complexities of your comfy, cosseted government supported existence is; the fact remains that you are still untimely employed by the government in a nice secure well-paid job.

People suffered immensely - they lost jobs, they lost businesses, they lost houses. The fact that you consistently refuse to acknowledge the suffering of others throughout this thing tells me all I need to know. People lost jobs, lost businesses, lost homes - but like Marie Antoinette you don't have a clue about any of that because you can't see it.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
What percentage of them do I 'hate', don?

Some of them or all of them?
DirtyBallast
Probably all of them since you've a straight-up bigot.

You're likely one of those people who complains about how minority races are so hard done by in Australia and then uses the intellectually disabled as the butt of your jokes.

In fact that's exactly what you isn't it mate.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I had a scroll back to the 28th, and noted some comments by the Representative of the South Australian Intelligentsia.

My observations are in upper case.

“I was hanging onto one data point because it's indicative of what's really going on - haven't been able to find any references to Victorian suicide rates during lock-down because they're simply not available. “ WRONG.

“You don't have a business, Aaron, you're another one of these public servants on this board who doesn't know what all the fuss is about when there's a lockdown.” WRONG.

“Obviously you don't have enough real work to do.” WRONG.

“You work in a program set up and wholly-funded by taxpayers.” WRONG.

“He said that the suicide rate in 2021 was definitely the same as it was in 2020 and then couldn't produce numbers to support that assertion so he changed the goal-posts.” WRONG.

“The reason why you think lock-downs are the right strategy is because you don't know anyone who has suffered, lost businesses, lost livelihoods or their house from it - it doesn't affect you - you can't see those people and therefore you don't care. You live in a bubble not exposed to the economic realities that other people are.” COMPLETE GUESSWORK.


That's not a bad record for three days is it?  I suspect most people would consider it to be a total cock-up.
Valvegear
So what now you speak for Aaron?

The only reason that you're suddenly invested in this is because you're yet another one who hasn't suffered on iota throughout this thing (apart from not being able to get a haircut so you told us) and in fact considers the lock-downs totally necessary to protect his own life.  Selfish to the very core.

So mind your own business, Misses Jessop.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I'm sure that Aaron, with his excellent grasp of statistics would appreciate the story about the deer hunters - a teacher, a doctor and a statistician.
A deer was sighted, the doctor took a shot and missed by a metre to the right. The teacher took his shot and missed by a metre to the left. "Got him", said the statistician.
Valvegear
Valvegear + Aaron 4 eva XXXXXXX
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Well, there we are . . . four consecutive posts from the Great One, and no hint in any that he's made the well documented mistakes that were listed.
Just the usual schoolyard-style of nit-picking irrelevancies.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Well, there we are . . . four consecutive posts from the Great One, and no hint in any that he's made the well documented mistakes that were listed.
Just the usual schoolyard-style of nit-picking irrelevancies.
Valvegear
I could say the exact same thing about your list of grievances - it's all just your ego-inflated opinion about what you think.

And as usual you won't go anywhere near my observation that the people who complain the loudest are the ones who didn't do one iota of the heavy lifting during the lock-downs.

"What are all those people complaining about - I'm okay, I don't know what their problem is!"
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
What percentage of them do I 'hate', don?

Some of them or all of them?
Probably all of them since you've a straight-up bigot.

You're likely one of those people who complains about how minority races are so hard done by in Australia and then uses the intellectually disabled as the butt of your jokes.

In fact that's exactly what you isn't it mate.
don_dunstan
Probably...likely etc. Well, haven't you gone shy all of a sudden. Cluck cluck cluck! Where are the table thumping black and white claims now? Maybe the penny has dropped that if I dislike a person with a disability, it might not be because of their disability? Just like people dying with covid may not have died because of covid....which has been trotted out ad nauseam by some buffoon over the journey. Even you should see the analogy in that.
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
Come on then Don, where are the massive suicide rates in Victoria then?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Anyone with a weak heart should avoid this thread because of the possibility (admittedly extremely remote) that the SA expert might admit to being wrong somewhere instead of answering everything with schoolboy drivel. Even when confronted with incontrovertible proof of his errors he resorts to taunts and ignores the facts.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
PRO TIP - Whilst all of that is totally true, I am not actually going to tell you Don - it's a secret.
I don't care what the complexities of your comfy, cosseted government supported existence is; the fact remains that you are still untimely employed by the government in a nice secure well-paid job.

People suffered immensely - they lost jobs, they lost businesses, they lost houses. The fact that you consistently refuse to acknowledge the suffering of others throughout this thing tells me all I need to know. People lost jobs, lost businesses, lost homes - but like Marie Antoinette you don't have a clue about any of that because you can't see it.
don_dunstan
You seem to care about the complexities of my job (it’s actual quite simple, I turn up, I do stuff, I get paid - no different to any other job really) - you mention in near every post.

I am not employed by the government you idiot. I have literally lost count of how many times - and I am good at counting.

I work for a listed company, of which I have just checked and cannot see that anything that looks like a government entity holding even a share. My job is somewhat comfy, but that’s mostly because I am good at it, and with experience comes comfort and ease, after all, what else is experience good for?

People suffered immensely, I don’t dispute that, this dispute you will recall is about whether that suffering lead to and increased rate in suicides - so far that looks exceptionally unlikely.

Let’s not forget though Don, your single data point for this dispute was ‘under 18 year old females’.

You think I am in a privileged position?

Lost jobs, lost businesses, lost houses due to Covid leading to increased suicide? In under 18 year old females? A bunch of 18 year old girls lost jobs, businesses and HOUSES? I didn’t own a house at 18, and excuse me if I admit I don’t much care if any 18 year old is forced into selling property - there’s a limit to tolerable privilege even for me.

I don’t work for the government, or even a government supported industry - just in case you’re still struggling with that.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
I don’t work for the government, or even a government supported industry - just in case you’re still struggling with that.
"Aaron"
Don't worry about it; he's just struggling because everyone can see he was wrong (again).
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
From memory, Don's Massive Suicide Uptick in Teenagers data point was a correct claim of a 700% increase in a year. Looks impressive, but looked less impressive when the numbers were revealed to be an increas from one suicide to seven. Terribly sad nonetheless, but not the image of an Australian Stalingrad that Don was trying to paint.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I was actually looking for other data, but mis-clicked and found this - it might be interesting reading for you Don.

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/causes-death/causes-death-australia/2020#2020-covid-19-mortality


2020: SuicidesFor people who died by suicide in 2020:
  • There were 3,139 deaths due to suicide (2,384 males and 755 females). This compares to 3,318 suicides in 2019 (2,502 males and 816 females).
  • The age-standardised suicide rate was 12.1 deaths per 100,000 people, a 6.2% decrease from 2019.
  • For females, the suicide rate was the lowest since 2013 and for males the lowest since 2016.
  • The median age at death for people who died by suicide was 43.5.
  • Suicide was the 15th leading cause of death compared to the 13th in 2019.
  • Over 90% of people who died by suicide had risk factors identified including depression, substance use and abuse, and issues in spousal relationships.
The third dot point is pretty interesting wouldn’t you say?

Even the second dot point, in comparison to the last year before Covid there was a 6.2% reduction in suicides in the first year of Covid (with all the lockdowns) and likely year of the biggest ‘change in lifestyle’ in memory.
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
Still can't find the Data for suicides in October in Victoria, but I suspect it will be around the same.

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