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ninthnotch
Dr Beeching
Joined: May 25, 2003
Last Visited: May 16, 2007
Location: Not here. Try another castle.
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 11:29 pm
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There is a group based in the State Mine Heritage Park site in Lithgow, headed by a South African company called Ozback Tours (or some such). They have an ABS dining car, some other ex Intercapital Daylight cars, two Tulloch DRC's (FTH1221 and 1226) and an ex-Southern Aurora LAN car (that they are not using).
The plan is to gut the cars (which they are doing), refit them as a five-star hotel, get some flat cars, put minibuses on them, run these cars from Lithgow-Sydney-Adelaide-Darwin stopping at various centres, dropping off the minibuses off a ramp attached and the overseas passengers at various stations, carting them about the desert in the biddy-bus to gawk at Coober Pedy, Uluru and Kakadu, carting them back to Sydney, and charging around $15,000.00 for the privilege.
The two Tullochs will become a bar/dinning, the ABS another dining, the rest are to be largish sleeper cabins.
When I was there, work was going on in the Tullochs to outfit them, and te cars were painted in a dark red colour scheme, with a lighter red across the windowline. They seemed to be pretty serious about it...
What is also interesting is that they have contracted Silverton to provide locomotives - wonder if they'll use C's?
That's an attention-getter!
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standard_gauge
Dr Beeching
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
Last Visited: Oct 26, 2008
Location: Outside the toilet, waiting for Della Bosca to come out !!
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Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:22 am
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| ninthnotch wrote: | There is a group based in the State Mine Heritage Park site in Lithgow, headed by a South African company called Ozback Tours (or some such). They have an ABS dining car, some other ex Intercapital Daylight cars, two Tulloch DRC's (FTH1221 and 1226) and an ex-Southern Aurora LAN car (that they are not using).
The plan is to gut the cars (which they are doing), refit them as a five-star hotel, get some flat cars, put minibuses on them, run these cars from Lithgow-Sydney-Adelaide-Darwin stopping at various centres, dropping off the minibuses off a ramp attached and the overseas passengers at various stations, carting them about the desert in the biddy-bus to gawk at Coober Pedy, Uluru and Kakadu, carting them back to Sydney, and charging around $15,000.00 for the privilege.
The two Tullochs will become a bar/dinning, the ABS another dining, the rest are to be largish sleeper cabins.
When I was there, work was going on in the Tullochs to outfit them, and te cars were painted in a dark red colour scheme, with a lighter red across the windowline. They seemed to be pretty serious about it...
What is also interesting is that they have contracted Silverton to provide locomotives - wonder if they'll use C's? |
er.....I saw those carriages at Lithgow 5 days ago, and there are some maps inside those carriages, with line from Sydney to Darwin via Melbourne, Adelaide and Alice Spring highlighted, I assume that would be the route taken. I don't think it's going to be an all 5 star accomodation GSPE style train but instead a range of accomodation provided, from deluxe to backpacker share shower style, but the aim would be backpack. Hence there are more backpack rooms, interesting enough the deluxe room was rebuilt of the original toilet !!
But I have some doubt if they would succeed, think about it, how many train tour companies died? ALOT!!! it's not a cheap practice to start up a new railway business.
Hey?..whatever happen to my warning level?
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BlueBird 255
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Feb 25, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: Victoria
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Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 5:39 pm
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any pics of these cars?
also do they have a power van?
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aus&serbian_rail
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Jun 13, 2003
Last Visited: Apr 4, 2004
Location: Liverpool NSW 2170
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standard_gauge
Dr Beeching
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
Last Visited: Oct 26, 2008
Location: Outside the toilet, waiting for Della Bosca to come out !!
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:34 am
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| aus&serbian_rail wrote: | For more information refer to
http://www.ozbackexplorer.com/english/index.html |
Wow....when I see that all I can say is..watch out GSR...their offer price is just as good or cheaper than Ghan. The accomodation is similar too, (I wonder if GSR would let them use Keswick terminal? if they don't there is always Goodwood station...)
Hey?..whatever happen to my warning level?
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alco961
Station Master
Joined: May 11, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008
Location: In South Oz
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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 6:00 pm
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Well, I can remember I travelled on the IP Sydney to Pirie for $33.00, Secound class sleeper & included 3 meals.... What a way to travel, well, it was then. I must say, LOL that was in 1973 on my return from NZ.
Overland my first trip on that was for $9.90, sitting up that one. Those fares are single tickets
The last trip on the IP was to Perth for near on $700
These days of course it is all money, private companies are looking to return their shareholders the best profits they can. That of course is the diff between Government & Private.
Cheers
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mjja
Sir Nigel Gresley
Joined: Jan 13, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 4, 2008
Location: Mount Waverley, Melbourne
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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 6:10 pm
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At least the profit motive means they have to actually look after their customers (give good service etc) and cut down on the waste and bureaucracy. As far as they can within the regulations that is.
Happy Gunzelling and remember, "Go by rail!"
Michael Angelico
President, Smart Passengers Inc
(My opinions are my own unless specifically stated.)
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aus&serbian_rail
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Jun 13, 2003
Last Visited: Apr 4, 2004
Location: Liverpool NSW 2170
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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:18 pm
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| mjja wrote: | | At least the profit motive means they have to actually look after their customers (give good service etc) and cut down on the waste and bureaucracy. As far as they can within the regulations that is. |
Unfortunately, me and my mates wanted to go Adelaide by train, but was more economic to go by Virgin Blue. Forget the service I want cheap fare and enough room to have a walk. This story doesn't keep water.
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alco961
Station Master
Joined: May 11, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008
Location: In South Oz
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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:44 pm
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| mjja wrote: | | At least the profit motive means they have to actually look after their customers (give good service etc) and cut down on the waste and bureaucracy. As far as they can within the regulations that is. |
Yes & going private meant we still have some form of railways in this state. The way AN were going would have had nothing. Rail travel these days is really aimed at the tourist not some much the person who wants to go from Point A to Point B. Most places you can fly cheaper, but miss seeing everything. It is still a great way to travel though. As the SAR said; "No driving strain, when you go by train"
Cheers
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zipitidoodah
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 22, 2003
Last Visited: Apr 28, 2007
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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:33 pm
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| James C wrote: | | aus&serbian_rail wrote: | | In 10 years they'll end up like historic/touristic railway because no one is so crazy to spend that much money and time for traveling. Even tourists will turn away, for that money you can do much more than 'see the desert'. For the money that you spend on Sydney-Perth train fare you could easily get to London. |
Not quite, having work with some ARTC /Westnet rail and RIC access charge recently I found there is little GSR can do to lower the price. ARTC/RIC and Westnet rail really charged too much.
GSR is not happy about it too, GSR has asked
(evidence here http://www.ncc.gov.au/pdf/CERaNtSu-012.pdf ) all these rail access bodies to lower the access charge for passenger train basically because passenger trains gets the most expensive charge at any given route despite passenger carriages really doesn't damage rail track as much as freight trains do....the current rail access charge is in favour of slow freight trains, not passenger trains.
At the moment all GSR can do is to give as much to passengers as possible to make the expensive ticket well worthy, hence you get all that stuff like the travelling certificate, the blue ocean cocktail champian and 24 hours snack on board....etc |
Do they pay more because they need priority over other trains, in terms of needing to get to the destinations on time?
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standard_gauge
Dr Beeching
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
Last Visited: Oct 26, 2008
Location: Outside the toilet, waiting for Della Bosca to come out !!
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 12:18 am
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| zipitidoodah wrote: | | James C wrote: | | aus&serbian_rail wrote: | | In 10 years they'll end up like historic/touristic railway because no one is so crazy to spend that much money and time for traveling. Even tourists will turn away, for that money you can do much more than 'see the desert'. For the money that you spend on Sydney-Perth train fare you could easily get to London. |
Not quite, having work with some ARTC /Westnet rail and RIC access charge recently I found there is little GSR can do to lower the price. ARTC/RIC and Westnet rail really charged too much.
GSR is not happy about it too, GSR has asked
(evidence here http://www.ncc.gov.au/pdf/CERaNtSu-012.pdf ) all these rail access bodies to lower the access charge for passenger train basically because passenger trains gets the most expensive charge at any given route despite passenger carriages really doesn't damage rail track as much as freight trains do....the current rail access charge is in favour of slow freight trains, not passenger trains.
At the moment all GSR can do is to give as much to passengers as possible to make the expensive ticket well worthy, hence you get all that stuff like the travelling certificate, the blue ocean cocktail champian and 24 hours snack on board....etc |
Do they pay more because they need priority over other trains, in terms of needing to get to the destinations on time? |
No, access charge is usually according to the maximum speed of the train in operation, hence XPT(130-160kph) Cargo Sprinter (130kph)and GSR trains(115kph versus normal freight trains at 80-110kph) has to pay the maximum charge. If the passenger train runs late, bad luck, they would have to wait for other trains that are on time, as the case of Sydney-Melbourne XPT if ran late, it would have to wait all the Sydney bound freight near Melbourne, if Overland overdue, it would have to wait Patrick, SCT trains out of Melbourne.
Hey?..whatever happen to my warning level?
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Tonymercury
Dr Beeching
Joined: May 17, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 4, 2008
Location: Botany NSW
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 7:18 am
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| James C wrote: | | aus&serbian_rail wrote: | For more information refer to
http://www.ozbackexplorer.com/english/index.html |
Wow....when I see that all I can say is..watch out GSR...their offer price is just as good or cheaper than Ghan. The accomodation is similar too, (I wonder if GSR would let them use Keswick terminal? if they don't there is always Goodwood station...) |
But James.
You posted earlier-
"GSR is not happy about it too, GSR has asked
(evidence here http://www.ncc.gov.au/pdf/CERaNtSu-012.pdf ) all these rail access bodies to lower the access charge for passenger train basically because passenger trains gets the most expensive charge at any given route despite passenger carriages really doesn't damage rail track as much as freight trains do....the current rail access charge is in favour of slow freight trains, not passenger trains. "
So, just how accurate do you thimk the new people's prices are?
Tony Bailey
A Yahoo Groups that may be of interest-
RailNewsInternational
A group designed to disseminate International news items.
To subscribe to it, you can just send a blank e-mail to-
RailNewsInternational-subscribe@yahoogroups.com |
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Tonymercury
Dr Beeching
Joined: May 17, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 4, 2008
Location: Botany NSW
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 7:21 am
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| aus&serbian_rail wrote: | | mjja wrote: | | At least the profit motive means they have to actually look after their customers (give good service etc) and cut down on the waste and bureaucracy. As far as they can within the regulations that is. |
Unfortunately, me and my mates wanted to go Adelaide by train, but was more economic to go by Virgin Blue. Forget the service I want cheap fare and enough room to have a walk. This story doesn't keep water. |
So what you really wanted was the cheapest fare?
If you had really wanted to go by train the fare wold not have mattered, surely?
Tony Bailey
A Yahoo Groups that may be of interest-
RailNewsInternational
A group designed to disseminate International news items.
To subscribe to it, you can just send a blank e-mail to-
RailNewsInternational-subscribe@yahoogroups.com |
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mjja
Sir Nigel Gresley
Joined: Jan 13, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 4, 2008
Location: Mount Waverley, Melbourne
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Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 1:36 pm
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Not picking on you or anything, but if you really want the very cheapest, try walking. There's even less service than Virgin Blue, it takes even longer than the Overdue, but it is cheaper. Obviously there are limits to your wish to get the cheapest possible trip.
Nobody wants to waste money - they'll get the cheapest trip that they consider worthwhile. If they don't need to be able to walk around and don't want a club car, they go by Virgin. If they want an in-flight meal, Qantas. If they want a really nice overnight thing, the Overland.
GSR know it will be very hard to compete with the likes of Virgin on price, what with track access fees as high as they are etc. So they go for a market where people are willing to pay a bit extra to get a club car, complimentary champagne at the start, breakfast, etc.
Happy Gunzelling and remember, "Go by rail!"
Michael Angelico
President, Smart Passengers Inc
(My opinions are my own unless specifically stated.)
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aus&serbian_rail
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Jun 13, 2003
Last Visited: Apr 4, 2004
Location: Liverpool NSW 2170
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2003 5:40 pm
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| mjja wrote: | Not picking on you or anything, but if you really want the very cheapest, try walking. There's even less service than Virgin Blue, it takes even longer than the Overdue, but it is cheaper. Obviously there are limits to your wish to get the cheapest possible trip.
Nobody wants to waste money - they'll get the cheapest trip that they consider worthwhile. If they don't need to be able to walk around and don't want a club car, they go by Virgin. If they want an in-flight meal, Qantas. If they want a really nice overnight thing, the Overland.
GSR know it will be very hard to compete with the likes of Virgin on price, what with track access fees as high as they are etc. So they go for a market where people are willing to pay a bit extra to get a club car, complimentary champagne at the start, breakfast, etc. |
Look, I travelled around Europe by train (nearly around) and there is no one who can tell me that I'm not a railfan. I didn't care about price because prices were low and although trip might took about 20 hours I enjoyed the trip and saved the money.
But honestly I'm not prepared to work a week just to afford train fare to Adelaide and loose another week travelling when I can do that on Virgin Blue for 2 hours and pay less. Someone mentioned service? Why would u need a meal for such short time?
And honestly I'm not prepared to spend my holiday on slow and expensive train.I'd rather go and try QR tilt train, Brisbane-Cairns and have a good swim.
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