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des
Beginner
Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Last Visited: Aug 21, 2003
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:41 pm
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Can anyone give me more a sense of the traffic patterns for freight trains coming into Sydney? Any info would be most appreciated.
1) About how many freight trains(all types-containers, coal, grain, steel, goods, other) per day on average use the Main Western line through the Blue Mountains and Parramatta?
2) About how many freight trains per day use the Main North line between Sydney and Newcastle?
3) Do any freight trains run via Central Station and the North Shore line(across the Harbor Bridge)?
4) About how many freight trains per day use the Main South Line, north of Moss Vale?
5) About how many freights run on the South Coast Line, and how many on the Unanderra-Moss Vale line? Which junction do South Coast Line freights use to reach Enfield, the Main West Line, and the Main North Line, Illawarra or Marrickville?
6) Currently double stacks from Perth are not allowed east of Parkes(to Sydney/Brisbane) and Adelaide(to Melbourne), correct? The recent freight upgrade proposal suggest creating a Melbourne-Sydney route for double stacks, such as bypassing the electric lines with a new line parallel to the Main South electric tracks from MacArthur to Chollura, correct? Is the plan to run Perth-Sydney double stacks via Parkes-Stockingbingal-Cootamundra-Main South line(to avoid the Main Western line via the Blue Mountains), and Melbourne-Perth via Parkes, or will Adelaide-Melbourne also be cleared for double stacks? Will clearance for double stacks also be created north from Sydney to Newcastle and Brisbane?(Seems like that could get very expensive.)
OK, lots of questions, but thanks in advance for any insights you may have.
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Bwana
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jul 21, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 5, 2008
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 8:17 am
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| des wrote: | Can anyone give me more a sense of the traffic patterns for freight trains coming into Sydney? Any info would be most appreciated.
3) Do any freight trains run via Central Station and the North Shore line(across the Harbor Bridge)?
5) About how many freights run on the South Coast Line, and how many on the Unanderra-Moss Vale line? Which junction do South Coast Line freights use to reach Enfield, the Main West Line, and the Main North Line, Illawarra or Marrickville?
6) Currently double stacks from Perth are not allowed east of Parkes(to Sydney/Brisbane) and Adelaide(to Melbourne), correct? The recent freight upgrade proposal suggest creating a Melbourne-Sydney route for double stacks, such as bypassing the electric lines with a new line parallel to the Main South electric tracks from MacArthur to Chollura, correct? Is the plan to run Perth-Sydney double stacks via Parkes-Stockingbingal-Cootamundra-Main South line(to avoid the Main Western line via the Blue Mountains), and Melbourne-Perth via Parkes, or will Adelaide-Melbourne also be cleared for double stacks? Will clearance for double stacks also be created north from Sydney to Newcastle and Brisbane?(Seems like that could get very expensive.)
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3) No, as far as I know never
5) Can't give you freight train frequencies, but they generally use the metropolitan freight lines, ie Meeks Road Junctions (Marrickville), then Sefton or Lidcombe junctions to head south (rare because of the Unanderra - Moss Vale line), Lidcombe for the west and Flemington and Strathfield junctions to head north (via Epping). To get to Botany they have to go into Enfield then turn around.
6) I would imagine the tunnels will discourage, if not stop any chance of double stacking into Sydney. It would be possible to go via Parkes-Stockinbingal-Cootamundra and Parkes-Dubbo-Gulgong-Muswellbrook-Maitland to go north, but taking such a route means tunnels are still encountered , and I seem to remember there's a height restriction on the Paterson Bridge.
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standard_gauge
Dr Beeching
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
Last Visited: Oct 26, 2008
Location: Outside the toilet, waiting for Della Bosca to come out !!
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:52 am
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3) No, as far as I know never
5) Can't give you freight train frequencies, but they generally use the metropolitan freight lines, ie Meeks Road Junctions (Marrickville), then Sefton or Lidcombe junctions to head south (rare because of the Unanderra - Moss Vale line), Lidcombe for the west and Flemington and Strathfield junctions to head north (via Epping). To get to Botany they have to go into Enfield then turn around.
6) I would imagine the tunnels will discourage, if not stop any chance of double stacking into Sydney. It would be possible to go via Parkes-Stockinbingal-Cootamundra and Parkes-Dubbo-Gulgong-Muswellbrook-Maitland to go north, but taking such a route means tunnels are still encountered , and I seem to remember there's a height restriction on the Paterson Bridge.[/quote]
(3) It does during track work(@#&*$%ing track work I heard you say?) or if you count ballast train for track work as a freight train, you do see them occasionally.
(5) tip, look at Intercity timetable, when you see a big gap between trains that means there is a freight train
Hey?..whatever happen to my warning level?
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phar lap
Junior Train Controller
Joined: May 16, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 10, 2004
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 2:48 am
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qwerty
Last edited by phar lap on Sat Sep 20, 2003 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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standard_gauge
Dr Beeching
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
Last Visited: Oct 26, 2008
Location: Outside the toilet, waiting for Della Bosca to come out !!
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:22 am
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| frankwozniak wrote: | | James C wrote: |
(5) tip, look at Intercity timetable, when you see a big gap between trains that means there is a freight train |
LOL i dont know where you come up with that one |
As far as Illawara line and Blue Mountain line, it's true.
Hey?..whatever happen to my warning level?
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des
Beginner
Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Last Visited: Aug 21, 2003
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:26 pm
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Thanks for the info so far, it is much appreciated.
Actually I am not looking for exact frequencies on these lines, just rough estimates of freight trains per day, like a half dozen or less, a dozen, or two dozen+.
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Bwana
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jul 21, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 5, 2008
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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 8:33 am
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| James C wrote: |
As far as Illawara line and Blue Mountain line, it's true. |
If you look at the timetables, you'll notice that both lines get a train an hour during off-peak, at the same time every hour (38 and 57 minutes past the hour respectively ex-Sydney). Given this regularity of service, I find it hard to believe they are affected by freight movements. Also, both lines have a relief line every 10km or so, so it is unlikely this interference would be necessary.
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awsgc24
Minister for Railways
Joined: Feb 18, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 5, 2008
Location: Sydney, NSW
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 9:27 am
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| des wrote: |
6) Currently double stacks from Perth are not allowed east of Parkes(to Sydney/Brisbane) and Adelaide(to Melbourne), correct? The recent freight upgrade proposal suggest creating a Melbourne-Sydney route for double stacks, such as bypassing the electric lines with a new line parallel to the Main South electric tracks from MacArthur to Chollura, correct? Is the plan to run Perth-Sydney double stacks via Parkes-Stockingbingal-Cootamundra-Main South line(to avoid the Main Western line via the Blue Mountains), and Melbourne-Perth via Parkes, or will Adelaide-Melbourne also be cleared for double stacks? Will clearance for double stacks also be created north from Sydney to Newcastle and Brisbane?(Seems like that could get very expensive.)
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The question of bringing double stacking to Sydney to Sydney is an economic one, and a competitive one. Clearly is costs an unknown ammount of money to make Melbourne/Parkes to Sydney via Moss Vale double stack. Providing double stacking eliminates a "break of stacking gauge" at Parkes.
It would definitely seem a good idea to make all new bridges, tunnels and signal gantries on likely double stack lines compatible with double stacking.
Consideration needs to be given to the design of a "break of stackin gauge" terminal at say Parkes, where a double stack train arrives from Perth/Adelaide/Darwin and needs to be split in the shortest possible time into single stack trains to Brisbane via Merrygoen, Sydney via Katoomba and Albury via Stockinbingal. The existing sidings at Goobang Junction and Parkes are not necessarily suitable for this splitting. The process in reverse also needs to be considered.
One size fits all?
_ Railway gauge _ _ _ _ : Mostly YES; Almost always 1435mm _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ .
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ : except sugar cane trams, rocket launch pads, telescopes.
_ _ Shoe/hat/ ring sizes: NO_ _ _ _ _ .
May use SUW 2000 VGA to bridge break-of-gauge.
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Skindog the Hawk
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Aug 23, 2003
Last Visited: May 6, 2008
Location: Wollongong
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:28 pm
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Quick question from the slightly uninitiated...what the hell is double stacking??
Skindog.
Can we Darwinise or euthanase ChromeDome??
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Bwana
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jul 21, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 5, 2008
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:34 pm
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Put Simply, double-stacking is placing another container on top of an existing container on a train. The obvious advantage is the ability to transport twice as many containers. The obvious difficulty is this makes the vehicle/train a couple of metres higher, which can be a problem when travelling under tressels, bridges, tunnels, electrified track etc.
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Skindog the Hawk
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Aug 23, 2003
Last Visited: May 6, 2008
Location: Wollongong
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 3:15 pm
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| Bwana wrote: | | Put Simply, double-stacking is placing another container on top of an existing container on a train. The obvious advantage is the ability to transport twice as many containers. The obvious difficulty is this makes the vehicle/train a couple of metres higher, which can be a problem when travelling under tressels, bridges, tunnels, electrified track etc. |
Thanks Bwana - I thought was the case...just wasn't sure... 
Skindog.
Can we Darwinise or euthanase ChromeDome??
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Riccardo
Minister for Railways
Joined: Aug 20, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 4, 2008
Location: Elsewhere
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:00 pm
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| Bwana wrote: | | Put Simply, double-stacking is placing another container on top of an existing container on a train. The obvious advantage is the ability to transport twice as many containers. The obvious difficulty is this makes the vehicle/train a couple of metres higher, which can be a problem when travelling under tressels, bridges, tunnels, electrified track etc. |
Is it a problem when under electrified track?
I believe this issue was fixed on the Fremantle-North Fremantle section where the overhead is very high.
In NSW all remaining electric trains are double deck which implies that they are already high to begin with and the pantos should be able to reach even higher, one would think.
What about putting no-conducting matting on top of the containers. I suppose this would be an extra cost, and you would need a way of automatically installing it at terminals.
If you need to get in touch, drop a comment at the Transport Textbook or on my blog.
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Riccardo
Minister for Railways
Joined: Aug 20, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 4, 2008
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:01 pm
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| Bwana wrote: | | Put Simply, double-stacking is placing another container on top of an existing container on a train. The obvious advantage is the ability to transport twice as many containers. The obvious difficulty is this makes the vehicle/train a couple of metres higher, which can be a problem when travelling under tressels, bridges, tunnels, electrified track etc. |
Is it a problem when under electrified track?
I believe this issue was fixed on the Fremantle-North Fremantle section where the overhead is very high.
In NSW all remaining electric trains are double deck which implies that they are already high to begin with and the pantos should be able to reach even higher, one would think.
What about putting no-conducting matting on top of the containers. I suppose this would be an extra cost, and you would need a way of automatically installing it at terminals.
If you need to get in touch, drop a comment at the Transport Textbook or on my blog.
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Bwana
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jul 21, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 5, 2008
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Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:34 am
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The wires can be reset higher, as can bridges, and tunnels can be dug lower, it's all possible, but it's all also very expensive.
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