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Scott54
Beginner
Joined: Oct 06, 2003
Last Visited: Oct 13, 2003
Location: Helensville, New Zealand
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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:30 am
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Could anyone assist me with some places I can go on the web to research the cost of subsidies for commuter rail services anywhere. I am in a local community forum that is discussing how best to improve poorly used public transport in Auckland, New Zealand. A city of 1 million people with little use of public transport but lots of use of cars and motorways. One supporter of bus transport said that worldwide rail commuter journeys were subsidised by $8 per trip. I want some evidence to refute this, but have found little of relevance. Auckland city is trying to develop and improve a run down commuter rail service and there is much public opposition to the likely short term costs involved. Perth, Australia is a very similar city and they have successfully rejuvenated their rail system. I would really appreciate being pointed to some pro-rail information.
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John of Melbourne
The Ghost of George Stephenson
Joined: Jan 30, 2003
Last Visited: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Melbourne suburbs
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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:15 am
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| Scott54 wrote: | | Could anyone assist me with some places I can go on the web to research the cost of subsidies for commuter rail services anywhere. I am in a local community forum that is discussing how best to improve poorly used public transport in Auckland, New Zealand. A city of 1 million people with little use of public transport but lots of use of cars and motorways. One supporter of bus transport said that worldwide rail commuter journeys were subsidised by $8 per trip. I want some evidence to refute this, but have found little of relevance. Auckland city is trying to develop and improve a run down commuter rail service and there is much public opposition to the likely short term costs involved. Perth, Australia is a very similar city and they have successfully rejuvenated their rail system. I would really appreciate being pointed to some pro-rail information. |
I don't know of anywhere that has this laid out, but looking at various websites such as Victoria's Department of Infrastructure site may, if you search enough, have enough information to allow you to figure it out yourself.
Another approach is to find out how much bus (and car) journeys are subsided for comparison. Any fair comparison should take into account not just the cost of building and maintaining the road system itself, but of all other expenses associated with providing the roads, such as traffic police, court time spent on motoring offences, the cost to the community of accidents, etc. Most of the equivalent rail costs are either borne by the railway or are quite minimal on the railway (e.g. comparitively fewer accidents), whereas for the roads they are spread out over so many different bodies that the total cost is not obvious.
In fact, you almost don't need to find this out. Ask your supporter of bus transport for the figure. Chances are, he won't know it, in which case you can ask why he thinks rail is a greater subsidy when he doesn't know what the bus figure is.
If he makes out that he does know it, such as by claiming that buses have no subsidy, ask if that takes into account all the other factors that I mentioned above. Most likely it wouldn't.
Of course you can always ask him to provide a reference to support his claim of $8/trip. Has he evidence for that figure? If he has, then you have something to work with to refute it (assuming that it is incorrect). If not, the claim is worthless anyway.
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mjja
Sir Nigel Gresley
Joined: Jan 13, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 26, 2008
Location: Mount Waverley, Melbourne
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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:00 am
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Janes World Railways may have some info.
Happy Gunzelling and remember, "Go by rail!"
Michael Angelico
President, Smart Passengers Inc
(My opinions are my own unless specifically stated.)
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