Railway Archaeology Quiz #4

 
  B 67 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland
Australian Portland Cement had a tunnel in their Fyansford line.
"Sonofagunzel"

Yep, that's the one I was thinking of. Just to show I can think of things outside of Gippsland.  Laughing
And before anyone says it, I'm aware there was a tunnel near Powelltown, but I'm not aware of it being a particularly "substantial" one (the bump).
"B 67"
I suppose it depends on what you mean by "substantial", but the Bump tunnel was a reasonable length.  There was also a tunnel on Henry's (if I recall correctly) tramway out of Forrest.
"John of Melbourne"

I probably should've reworded the question when I realised The Bump was a possible answer. I know it was a reasonable length. But I've never seen photos of it or had a look myself when I've driven over it. I had a feeling there may be other tunnels on various tramways, but I sort of assumed such tunnels would be somewhat roughly constructed. But perhaps not.
Anyway, I got the answer I was hoping for.

Sonofagunzel's turn.

Sponsored advertisement

  Sonofagunzel Chief Commissioner

Can't think of anything challenging so here's an easy one - what is (was) the structure between the tracks next to the pedestrian overbridge at Petersham (NSW)?

Hopefully some more interesting NSW questions will come from the winner (not that Vic questions aren't interesting).
  B 67 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland
Can't think of anything challenging so here's an easy one - what is (was) the structure between the tracks next to the pedestrian overbridge at Petersham (NSW)?

Hopefully some more interesting NSW questions will come from the winner (not that Vic questions aren't interesting).
"Sonofagunzel"

Depends if the winner asks NSW questions.  Wink
I've been on that bridge, but can't think what structure you mean. And at present I don't have time ot check my photos or video to see if I can work it out. Shall do that late tonight in the unlikely event nobody else has answered.
  Sonofagunzel Chief Commissioner

Why do I suddenly feel so lonely here (apart from B67)?
  robbo Train Controller

Can't think of anything challenging so here's an easy one - what is (was) the structure between the tracks next to the pedestrian overbridge at Petersham (NSW)?

Hopefully some more interesting NSW questions will come from the winner (not that Vic questions aren't interesting).
"Sonofagunzel"


Either a signalling hut or the remains of the original platforms 2 and
3? (Petersham used to have 4 platforms, the present no. 1 is still there but not used. - I think the present 2 platforms were built later when the line was upgraded to 6 tracks.)[/img]
  Sonofagunzel Chief Commissioner

I was looking for a more specific answer ...

As I seem to have stopped an active and interesting thread in its tracks (no pun intended), what I might do is hand over to John of Melbourne (who answered B67's question more comprehensively that I did anyway - are you still around?) and start a new (NSW) quiz.  (I didn't do that in the first place cause I thought it'd be cheating - one must earn the right to the honour of asking a question!)

Off you go John.
  B 67 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland
I was looking for a more specific answer ...

As I seem to have stopped an active and interesting thread in its tracks (no pun intended), what I might do is hand over to John of Melbourne (who answered B67's question more comprehensively that I did anyway - are you still around?) and start a new (NSW) quiz.  (I didn't do that in the first place cause I thought it'd be cheating - one must earn the right to the honour of asking a question!)

Off you go John.
"Sonofagunzel"


It does stop for a day or two now and then. So I wouldn't worry about it. Smile
  Sonofagunzel Chief Commissioner

Yes , but looking at the history (would that be Railway Archaeology Quiz Archaeology?), Quiz #3 was killed by a NSW question also.
  T411 Moderator

Location: Somewhere
Yes , but looking at the history (would that be Railway Archaeology Quiz Archaeology?), Quiz #3 was killed by a NSW question also.
"Sonofagunzel"


Which incidentially I gave an answer for to which I have never been told whether I was correct or not! (And I'm a Vic resident Smile)
  B 67 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland
Sonofagunzel. Maybe you threw some people by asking a question about a line that isn't closed.  Laughing
  TA 2000 Chief Commissioner

Location: SA - I wish!
Sonofagunzel. Maybe you threw some people by asking a question about a line that isn't closed.  Laughing
"B 67"


i've deleted his question.
  Sonofagunzel Chief Commissioner

It seems that it is not the done thing to start a new Quiz even though I answered the last question on the old Quiz correctly.  Trap for young players! Embarassed

Anyway, the answer to my question was - the structure was formerly the men's toilet on the now demolished platforms 2 and 3 (it's one of the few, if not the only, trace that a platform was ever there).

I'll have another go at a NSW question (but really I'm more interested in hearing other NSW questions than I am in asking them):

An earlier question asked about streets which still have railway-related names even though the relevant railway feature is no longer there.  Can anyone think of two examples in Sydney (I'm sure there are more than two, but I only know of that number - I'll pay any two examples from Sydney)?
  Riccardo Minister for Railways

Location: Gone. Don't bother PMing here.
Castle Hill has a station st

Otherwise how about the tramway arcade in Rockdale, or Pippita St, which refers to a station that no longer exists.

Remember, unlike Melbourne, not a lot of rail infrastructure in the Sydney metro area has actually been removed, most lines that were built are still in use.
  Sonofagunzel Chief Commissioner

I did a little research after posting my question (not rigorous or entirely comprehensive, mind you) and I came up with two more definite examples, three other possibilites and three additional examples where I have no idea why these streets are named the way they are.  Unless I'm mistaken, all of these examples are railway, not tramway, related.  

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Pippita station was named after the street, rather than the street being named after the station.

You're warm with your Castle Hill example, but not correct.

On a separate point (ie not in response to Riccardo), and if it's not moving the goalposts too much, can I add a requirement that the successful answerer explain their answer (ie say what the feature was and on what railway it was located)?
  B 67 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland
I did a little research after posting my question (not rigorous or entirely comprehensive, mind you) and I came up with two more definite examples, three other possibilites and three additional examples where I have no idea why these streets are named the way they are.  Unless I'm mistaken, all of these examples are railway, not tramway, related.  

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Pippita station was named after the street, rather than the street being named after the station.

You're warm with your Castle Hill example, but not correct.

On a separate point (ie not in response to Riccardo), and if it's not moving the goalposts too much, can I add a requirement that the successful answerer explain their answer (ie say what the feature was and on what railway it was located)?
"Sonofagunzel"


Well, I guess it can be considered Sydney. At least these days. But 2 I can think of so far are Station St in Camden and perhaps Tramway Drive at Currans Hill. Also there's an Outram Pl. I've never been there, so I'm just using a map. And wouldn't know if they were in existance when the Camden line was open. But I feel it is a safe bet that they were named after the dismantled Camden line / tramway.

Well, it's the best I can come up with so far. I'm not a Sydney person after all.  Wink
  John of Melbourne The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Melbourne suburbs
Castle Hill has a station st
"Riccardo"
You're warm with your Castle Hill example, but not correct.
"Sonofagunzel"
How could a Station Street in Castle Hill not be railway related?  Oh, there isn't one! Smile  (According to my Sydway at least.)

I'm not certain which was named after which, but I think Model Farms Road in Northmead was named after Model Farms Siding on the former Castle Hill/Rogan's Hill railway.
  Sonofagunzel Chief Commissioner

Well, I guess it can be considered Sydney. At least these days. But 2 I can think of so far are Station St in Camden and perhaps Tramway Drive at Currans Hill. Also there's an Outram Pl. I've never been there, so I'm just using a map. And wouldn't know if they were in existance when the Camden line was open. But I feel it is a safe bet that they were named after the dismantled Camden line / tramway.

Well, it's the best I can come up with so far. I'm not a Sydney person after all.  Wink
"B 67"


Even though I wasn't going to count tramway related examples, I think there's enough doubt in the case of the Camden line to pay your first two examples (don't know about the third).

The examples I came up with were:
1   Station St, Newtown: The station has since been moved further to the east.
2   Station St, Camden (on the closed Camden-Campbelltown line)
3   Railway St, Baulkham Hills: (Parramatta - Rogans Hill)
4   Terminus St, Castle Hill (this is an interesting one, because it either a double example or doesn't count at all.  This is because Castle Hill was not always the terminus of that line.  So even while the railway existed, it was named for a railway feature that was no longer there.  However, if it was called Terminus St from the tramway days, then it's not railway related!)
5   Terminus St, Liverpool (Liverpool is no longer the terminus).

Then there are the mysteries (if anyone can enlighten me, I'd appreciate it!):
1   Station St, Naremburn (was there ever a station there?)
2   Rail Place, Chipping Norton (was there ever a railway there?)
3   Railway Pde, Condell Park (ditto)
4   Terminus Rd, Seven Hills (I didn't think this station was ever a terminus)
5   Terminus St, Petersham (ditto).

So over to you, B67.
  B 67 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland
Well, I guess it can be considered Sydney. At least these days. But 2 I can think of so far are Station St in Camden and perhaps Tramway Drive at Currans Hill. Also there's an Outram Pl. I've never been there, so I'm just using a map. And wouldn't know if they were in existance when the Camden line was open. But I feel it is a safe bet that they were named after the dismantled Camden line / tramway.

Well, it's the best I can come up with so far. I'm not a Sydney person after all.  Wink
"B 67"


Even though I wasn't going to count tramway related examples, I think there's enough doubt in the case of the Camden line to pay your first two examples (don't know about the third).

The examples I came up with were:
1   Station St, Newtown: The station has since been moved further to the east.
2   Station St, Camden (on the closed Camden-Campbelltown line)
3   Railway St, Baulkham Hills: (Parramatta - Rogans Hill)
4   Terminus St, Castle Hill (this is an interesting one, because it either a double example or doesn't count at all.  This is because Castle Hill was not always the terminus of that line.  So even while the railway existed, it was named for a railway feature that was no longer there.  However, if it was called Terminus St from the tramway days, then it's not railway related!)
5   Terminus St, Liverpool (Liverpool is no longer the terminus).

Then there are the mysteries (if anyone can enlighten me, I'd appreciate it!):
1   Station St, Naremburn (was there ever a station there?)
2   Rail Place, Chipping Norton (was there ever a railway there?)
3   Railway Pde, Condell Park (ditto)
4   Terminus Rd, Seven Hills (I didn't think this station was ever a terminus)
5   Terminus St, Petersham (ditto).

So over to you, B67.
"Sonofagunzel"


Well, I'd probably not have found most of the others you listed. Since there's apparently no objections I guess I should come up with a question.

Had history been kinder to Melbourne's Rosstown Railway (like it had actually opened and had trains run on it), then what would the station at Koornang Rd, Carnegie have had in common with Maffra? The answer I'm looking for is a kind of traffic that would've been / was generated.
  John of Melbourne The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Melbourne suburbs
Had history been kinder to Melbourne's Rosstown Railway (like it had actually opened and had trains run on it), then what would the station at Koornang Rd, Carnegie have had in common with Maffra? The answer I'm looking for is a kind of traffic that would've been / was generated.
"B 67"
Just going on what the Rosstown railway was intended for, sugar beet?

And if I'm not mistaken, the Rosstown Railway was opened and a train did run on it.  The opening train was the last train to run!
  B 67 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland
Had history been kinder to Melbourne's Rosstown Railway (like it had actually opened and had trains run on it), then what would the station at Koornang Rd, Carnegie have had in common with Maffra? The answer I'm looking for is a kind of traffic that would've been / was generated.
"B 67"
Just going on what the Rosstown railway was intended for, sugar beet?

And if I'm not mistaken, the Rosstown Railway was opened and a train did run on it.  The opening train was the last train to run!
"John of Melbourne"


Sugar beet was the answer. Maffra had sugar beet too. There's a small museum dedicated to it which is never open when I'm there.

I'm aware a train ran on the Rosstown line. But was it a loco hauled train or just a trolley? I read it was only a gangers trolley - with a trailer or two I think. If so, I wouldn't think you could say the line actually opened for traffic, even if officially, it was open.
Oh! I just noticed that I did say "had trains (plural) run on it).  Wink
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

[quote="B 67"][quote="John of Melbourne"][quote="B 67"]Had history been kinder to Melbourne's Rosstown Railway (like it had actually opened and had trains run on it), then what would the station at Koornang Rd, Carnegie have had in common with Maffra? [/quote]
[quote]Sugar beet was the answer. Maffra had sugar beet too. There's a small museum dedicated to it which is never open when I'm there.[/quote]
The sugar beet factory was at Elsternwick, not Carnegie. Had everything gone to plan there would have been sugar beet trains running through across Koornang Rd, but I don't recall that any plans to build a station there, and in any case doubt whether there would have been any sugar beet traffic originating or terminating there.
  B 67 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland
[quote="duttonbay"][quote="B 67"][quote="John of Melbourne"][quote="B 67"]Had history been kinder to Melbourne's Rosstown Railway (like it had actually opened and had trains run on it), then what would the station at Koornang Rd, Carnegie have had in common with Maffra? [/quote]
[quote]Sugar beet was the answer. Maffra had sugar beet too. There's a small museum dedicated to it which is never open when I'm there.[/quote]
The sugar beet factory was at Elsternwick, not Carnegie. Had everything gone to plan there would have been sugar beet trains running through across Koornang Rd, but I don't recall that any plans to build a station there, and in any case doubt whether there would have been any sugar beet traffic originating or terminating there.[/quote]

Oh dear. One of the hazards of me not being sure of the facts. But I'd been busy a couple of days and had to come up with a question quickly. I grabbed the Rosstown Railway book and glanced through it rather than read it all. One of the maps showed a mill site at Koornang Rd. I mistook that for the factory I guess. Sorry! Embarassed

I may have got the location slightly wrong (hey, it is all Melbourne to me) but I still got the answer I was after. The annoying part is that I was originally going to ask about a kind of traffic on the line (rather than a location on it) that was also at Maffra. I might've got away with that.

One of the things I like about this quiz is that I'm always learning something from it. Even when I don't have a clue about the answers...or the questions it seems. Laughing
  John of Melbourne The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Melbourne suburbs
I'm aware a train ran on the Rosstown line. But was it a loco hauled train or just a trolley? I read it was only a gangers trolley - with a trailer or two I think. If so, I wouldn't think you could say the line actually opened for traffic, even if officially, it was open.
"B 67"
I thought that it was a train, but I couldn't quote you any details, so I could be wrong.
Oh! I just noticed that I did say "had trains (plural) run on it).  Wink
"B 67"
Drat.  You got me on a technicality!
===============================================
My question:

Assuming that all lines that have ever been open in Victoria were open at the same time, what would have been the longest train journey that could have been operated starting and finishing at Spencer Street without changing trains or reversing direction, and also meeting the following rules:
  • You are confined to running lines only; no sidings.
  • You must not go over the same pair of tracks (i.e. up and down) more than once (e.g. you cannot go down the down line and later come back up the up line, but you can go down the Caulfield Local tracks and come back up the Caulfield Through tracks, as that is a different pair.)
  • Very trivial exceptions may be allowed to the previous rule, such as within station limits.
  • The Geelong broad gauge tracks count as one pair.
  • You can cross tracks that you have been over before.
  • You are confined to lines operated by the Victorian Railways and its successors.
  • This question relates to the operation of a special train; it has nothing to do with what services were operated.
Describe the route.

To give you an example, except this one starts and finishes at Oakleigh and includes a non-VR line:  Oakleigh - Waverley Road - East Camberwell - Fairfield - Clifton Hill - Jolimont - Melbourne Central - Flinders Street - Elsternwick - (via Rosstown Railway) - Oakleigh.
  Riccardo Minister for Railways

Location: Gone. Don't bother PMing here.
Probably a trick question but I will fire away

pre 1956

Meringur Red Cliffs Ballarat N Geelong Spencer St (inner viaduct lines) Flinders StRushall Royal Park Spencer (outer viaduct lines) Flinders Traralgon Maffra Stratford Orbost? Smile

sorry missed the bit about starting at Spencer St.


Is it Spencer N Geelong Ballarat Maryborough Castlemaine Bendigo Inglewood Dunolly Maryborough Ararat Horsham E Natimuk Hamilton Penshurst Koroit Warnambool Irrewarra Cressy Linton Junction Ballarat Spencer St inner viaduct Flinders Rushall Royal Park Spencer outer viaduct Flinders (City Loop) once more through Spencer outer circle Fairfield Clifton Hill back through Flinders one more pair of tracks to Spencer
  B 67 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland
I'm aware a train ran on the Rosstown line. But was it a loco hauled train or just a trolley? I read it was only a gangers trolley - with a trailer or two I think. If so, I wouldn't think you could say the line actually opened for traffic, even if officially, it was open.
"B 67"
I thought that it was a train, but I couldn't quote you any details, so I could be wrong.
Oh! I just noticed that I did say "had trains (plural) run on it).  Wink
"B 67"
Drat.  You got me on a technicality!
===============================================
My question:

Assuming that all lines that have ever been open in Victoria were open at the same time, what would have been the longest train journey that could have been operated starting and finishing at Spencer Street without changing trains or reversing direction, and also meeting the following rules:
  • You are confined to running lines only; no sidings.
  • You must not go over the same pair of tracks (i.e. up and down) more than once (e.g. you cannot go down the down line and later come back up the up line, but you can go down the Caulfield Local tracks and come back up the Caulfield Through tracks, as that is a different pair.)
  • Very trivial exceptions may be allowed to the previous rule, such as within station limits.
  • The Geelong broad gauge tracks count as one pair.
  • You can cross tracks that you have been over before.
  • You are confined to lines operated by the Victorian Railways and its successors.
  • This question relates to the operation of a special train; it has nothing to do with what services were operated.
Describe the route.

To give you an example, except this one starts and finishes at Oakleigh and includes a non-VR line:  Oakleigh - Waverley Road - East Camberwell - Fairfield - Clifton Hill - Jolimont - Melbourne Central - Flinders Street - Elsternwick - (via Rosstown Railway) - Oakleigh.
"John of Melbourne"


Now this is different. And if I were keen enough, I'd be using my map measurer to assist. But here's a route I've come up with. I'm assuming that when all these lines were open, they were all broad gauge too.  Smile

Spencer St - Newport - Altona - Geelong - Colac - Koroit - Penshurst - Dunkeld - Hamilton - East Natimuk - Ararat - Maroona - Cressy - Gheringhap - Ballarat - Ararat - Maryborough - Creswick - Daylesford - Carlsruhe - Clarkefield - Lancefield - Kilmore - Bendigo - Castlemaine - Maryborough - Dunolly - Inglewood - Bendigo - Echuca - Toolamba - Mangalore - Broadmeadows - Sunshine - Footscray - Nth Melbourne - Royal Park - Nth Fitzroy - Clifton Hill - Fairfield - Hughesdale - Sth Yarra - Windsor - St Kilda - Flinders St - Museum - Spencer St.

Whew! I'm not sure this totally fits into your rules John. But hands up all those who'd be booking their Steamrail tickets for a tour like that? I wonder how many days it would take - not including photo stops?

Perhaps I could find a longer route if I actually measure all the distances. But I'll be honest and say I have better things to do with my time.  Laughing


Damn! I just noticed I missed an important rule. No reversing directions. I'll try again later.  Embarassed

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: B 67, Sonofagunzel, T411, wurx

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.