| home |
|
| news |
|
| discussions |
|
| content |
|
| site |
|
|
| technical support | Need Help? Lodge a support ticket!
Note: This is for technical support only. General questions about railways should be posted to the Forums.donation 
Please Donate!photo comp Have YOU voted yet on Photo of the Month?
Click Here!
Voting Closes 31/12search |
| |
| Author |
Message |
RJ-3820
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Last Visited: Aug 7, 2006
Location: Docklands VIC
contact
|
post
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:32 am
|
|
Well the Canberra line is serviced by the Goulburn Civil Team, i must admit a while back i was in the yard Canberra, on my day off, having lunch in my car when a RIC car pulled right up behind me and he got out to enquire of my doings.... but when i showed him my ID (i was a Safeworking Officer back then) he wished me a nice day and left!!!
|
|
 |
Brassy
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jun 04, 2004
Last Visited: Jul 1, 2006
Location: Gippsland
contact
|
post
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:42 am
|
I think it also has a lot to do with your age. In the minds of these petty bureaucrats, young people are always suspicious.
I regularly go photographing on rail property in Victoria, and because I am an Old Fart, no-one seems to question me. Of course the other thing is that I always wear a high-vis vest and hat.
The only time I was approached was when the wrecking train was dismantling the overhead on the Pakenham - Warragul section and I was on the tracks with my camera. I was quite politlely asked to get off. Mind you, at the time I was talking to the train driver who told the official to "f**k off and stop being so full of bulls**t".
It seems that train drivers outrank petty officials 
|
|
|
Rodo
Chief Commissioner
Joined: May 12, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 23, 2008
Location: Southern Riverina
contact
|
post
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:45 am
|
| Brassy wrote: |
The only time I was approached was when the wrecking train was dismantling the overhead on the Pakenham - Warragul section and I was on the tracks with my camera. I was quite politlely asked to get off. Mind you, at the time I was talking to the train driver who told the official to "f**k off and stop being so full of bulls**t".
It seems that train drivers outrank petty officials |
When I was doing my first safeworking course with the old SRA in 1985, I was taught that we do outrank such people and policemen as well, the inspector told me to reply to them all in such a manner.
Cheers,
Lord Rodo ~ ~ el Ambassadorio del Lithgovian Peoples Republic & Evil Empire
~ clod morning specialist. Viva Lithgovia !
|
|
|
DavidB
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 11, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 25, 2007
Location: Canberra
contact
|
post
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:23 am
|
The question of who outranks who and whose powers are greater isn't clearly defined. When I was doing my humble tourist railway safeworking course, we were told that under certain circumstances we could challenge police directions. For example if they say we have to evacuate NOW we could respond that we will secure the train (handbrakes, dets, etc) and THEN move, or refuse to move the train backwards when on Ticket. Even though we were volunteers, we had certain powers and authority delegated by VicTrack. I don't know what the situation is now.
On a similar note, I was once told that an RSM could beat up a 2nd Lieutenant and then say "Did you enjoy that, Sir?"
Cheers
David
|
|
|
Gwiwer
Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: Far away yet close at hand in images of elsewhere
contact
|
post
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:15 pm
|
The law on photography might vary between states but this is my general interpretation of current practice.
Railways including stations and bridges / underpasses which are owned or managed by the railway authority are PRIVATE property and made available for members of the public when using the railway.
Land outside the fence (or boundary, where there is no fence) may also be the private property of someone else.
Personal (as opposed to commercial) photography is generally permitted in PUBLIC places but it is good etiquette to seek permission first from anyone who may be identifiable in your images. Privacy laws may apply to retention of identifiable personal images. Persons of Aboriginal descent may also object to being photographed on cultural grounds, which we do need to respect.
If on private property permission should ALWAYS be sought, even for personal photographs (those not intended for publication or commercial gain), and you may be asked to move on if this is not gained. Use of video or obviously full-on professional kit is likely to attract negative attention.
You should ALWAYS make appropriate enquiries before submitting work for publication; some tourist railways actually have a statement to this effect in their brochure.
Having regard to all the above, if you are simply taking snaps of your mates in front of a train, or station sign, you are unlikely to be challenged. There are a few self-important people out there who seem to take delight in telling us where to go, but they often have a certain element of right on their side however rude they might be.
I don't use tripods on station platforms, don't wander across tracks, wear hi-vis when linesiding, and ask permission when I feel it's appropriate. And I've seldom had any problems.
CEO Penhayle Bay Railway. Ferroequinologist. BA Hons (Honourable Bachelor of Aquatarts  )
The wise yet mysterious Sir Gwiwer Greybeard |
|
|
cpdbear
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
contact
|
post
|
|
|
Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 1:36 pm
|
| Gwiwer wrote: | | Railways including stations and bridges / underpasses which are owned or managed by the railway authority are PRIVATE property and made available for members of the public when using the railway. |
It's not quite that simple. A lot of railway property in Canberra is actually Commonwealth land. This means that the operator may be operating under rules that are not appropriate. States can not make rules that are binding on the Commonwealth, the Commonwealth needs to take action to agree to be bound by those rules. This use to cause a lot of problems for Australian National as different legal rules applied to different bits of their property. Some property was actually SA Government land under AN control and some was actual Commonwealth property. SA police have no power on Commonwealth property, they need to be asked or seek permission first before they can operate. It's a jurisdiction issue.
In SA some railway property is not actually railway property, it is a legal right of way through someone else's property. I have been informed that a lot of the old railway yards are examples of this. The station building and yard were sold off to a private buyer with the railway track through the yard being the legal equivalent of an easement through the new owners property. Don't know if this is similar in other states, but it was done to make the sale of the land cheap and simple.
| Gwiwer wrote: | | Land outside the fence (or boundary, where there is no fence) may also be the private property of someone else. |
That's up the owner to police not the railways. I have been asked by railways staff not to take photos of an accident from a public road. I told him were to go and he just wandered off in a huff realising that he was not going to get away with his attempt to stop possible bad publicity. Could you image him even attempting to trying the same trick on the tv media.
| Gwiwer wrote: | | You should ALWAYS make appropriate enquiries before submitting work for publication; some tourist railways actually have a statement to this effect in their brochure. |
and lots of museums claim copyright to material that isn't theirs, doesn't mean that it is legal or enforceable. Lots of people seem to think that because they have seen it on a tv shows that they can do it when in fact the legal process is generally very different. Very few of these types of disclaimers etc. have much legal weight. (Disclaimer: If you want legal advice about a particular situation see a lawyer, don't believe what your friends tell you)
| Gwiwer wrote: | | I don't use tripods on station platforms, don't wander across tracks, wear hi-vis when linesiding, and ask permission when I feel it's appropriate. And I've seldom had any problems. |
Generally I have found that you have problems when someone has nothing better to do with their time. Generally the worst any of these people can do is call the police (normal or railway). It's a bit like the signs in stores saying a condition of entry is the right to search your bag, the owner does not have the power to demand this. If you refuse all they can do is detain you whilst the police are called assuming that they have a realistic suspicion that you have done something wrong. The police do have these sorts of powers. Most of rubbish you get from these people is designed to make them seem important in what if generally a very boring job.
|
|
|
DavidB
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 11, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 25, 2007
Location: Canberra
contact
|
post
|
|
|
Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 2:29 pm
|
| cpdbear wrote: | | It's not quite that simple. A lot of railway property in Canberra is actually Commonwealth land. |
Was. Some of the land in the yard was ceded to the ACT government in 1989 and the remainder transferred (or possibly sold for $1) to SRA when the ANRC was wound up. The fences do not necessarily indicate the boundaries of ownership.
The former Trackfast and Brambles sheds are certainly on ACT land, and I think so is the museum. The pet food supplier was kicked out of the Trackfast shed by ACTPLA because it was not zoned for retail (only for storage).
The running lines and bits of the yard are owned by Railcorp and leased to ARTC.
Like a lot of places in Canberra, it's very hard to get a definitive answer if you point to any given bit of land and ask who actually owns it.
Cheers
David
|
|
|
cpdbear
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
contact
|
post
|
|
|
Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 6:31 pm
|
|
The other thing I forgot to point out is that NSW laws don't apply in ACT, so it is possible that a lot of the rules that SRA use are not valid as they may not have the approrate legislation in the ACT backing them up.
|
|
|
Kiwi Rob
Junior Train Controller
Joined: May 07, 2005
Last Visited: Jul 22, 2008
contact
|
post
|
|
|
Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 7:11 pm
|
|
Sounds like there are some petty minded staff members in Canberra who don't seem to know or care about fostering relations with their most valuable allies. Old school railwaymen wouldn't dare do stuff like this,and it's a sad reflection of the erosion of the traditional railway culture in NSW.Regarding Drivesafe's comments on the law on photography on railway property in NSW, in practice it's very hard to police and can you really imagine someone being pinged for takings pics of Rydal or Boppy Mountain stations?
|
|
|
DavidB
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 11, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 25, 2007
Location: Canberra
contact
|
post
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:44 pm
|
I now have the official word, in writing, from the Chief Minister in his capacity as Attorney General.
There are no legal restrictions to non-commercial photography under ACT laws. The only laws apply to commercial photography and trespass. He states "Train enthrusiasts should exercise care that they do not trespass on land or property while pursuing their interests."
Regarding being questioned or challenged bystaff, security contractors or poiice, "security officers and company employees are properly concerned to anyone whose behaviour could be construed as suspicious, including people taking photographs no matter how innocently". The suggestion is to "inform relevant parties (transport company employees, private security contractors or police) prior to engaging in a photograpy session. Such an educative approach would be likely to assuage the concerns of the security officials, thereby minimising the possibility that such officials would attempt to disrupt the legitimate activities of amateur photographers".
From this we can conclude:
- we can take photographs provided we don't trespass (we already knew this)
- informing staff can help but permission is not required (we knew this too)
- taking photographs is a legitimate activity (nice to have it officially from the Chief Minister)
Cheers
David
|
|
|
|
|
All times are GMT + 10 Hours
|
You cannot post new threads in this forum
You cannot reply to threads in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB 2.0.6 © 2001 phpBB Group
Theme images and concept © 2004 by Michael Greenhill and Railpage, All Rights Reserved.
Version 2.0.6 of PHP-Nuke Port by Tom Nitzschner © 2002 www.toms-home.com
|
|
