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$2 for $90m lease FA

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realmakoym8 Chief Commissioner   Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Last Visited: Jul 18, 2007
Location: Melbourne


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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:23 pm
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,9948615%255E2862,00.html


$2 for $90m lease
Peter Mickelburough, state politics reporter
25jun04

THE US owner of Victoria's rail freight operations is threatening to sue after the State Government offered it $2 for a track lease it paid $90 million for.

Rail America leased thousands of kilometres of track for 45 years in 1999 as part of its $163 million purchase of the financially troubled V/Line Freight Corporation.
In documents seen by the Herald Sun, the company says the Department of Infrastructure demanded it surrender its lease for $1 plus a $1 consideration payment if it sells its operation as planned.

Rail America said it would lose more than $80 million on the pending sale of Freight Australia, the successor to V/Line Freight Corporation.

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission is expected to rule on the sale to Pacific National, a joint venture of transport giants Patricks and Toll Holdings, within days.

Rail America executive chairman William Pagonis told Premier Steve Bracks in April that the $2 surrender demand had caused "significant damage" to the sale price.

"Rail America intends to complete the sale of Freight Australia, exit the international markets and focus on our North America franchise," a copy of the April 30 letter seen by the Herald Sun says.

"Clearly, if we are prevented from doing so we must seek alternative remedies to protect our shareholders from the very substantial financial damage caused by the department's actions."

The letter says the company paid $89.7 million for the long-term track lease in 1999 and has since invested more than $130 million in the operation.

Transport Minister Peter Batchelor said selling or relinquishing the track to the Government was not a condition of the proposed sale.

But public transport director Peter Harris was required under the lease to consider the public interest before approving the sale.

"(He) is considering a number of public interest issues, including ensuring open access, co-operation with the Government and other operators on infrastructure projects and a strong commitment to delivering safety and maintenance," he said.

An April 30 letter to Mr Harris from Rail America says the initial suggested sale price of $375 million was reduced after government officials told prospective buyers of the state's intention to "seize control" of the track.

The letter also accuses the Government of releasing confidential information to prospective buyers.

"The state interfered with our proposed commercial transaction by linking any consent to a surrender of the lease for $2," the letter says.

Opposition Leader Robert Doyle said government meddling would again leave taxpayers with expensive legal bills.

"Freight Australia must not turn into another Seal Rocks," Mr Doyle said, referring to the

$46.8 million in government legal costs and payouts associated with the Seal Rocks Sea Life Centre last year.

Freight Australia declined to comment yesterday.



There is only one way any building or object or structure could collapse strait down. You would have to remove the resistence below it.
The force of the building pushing up is greater than that of the part of the building falling down.
 
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freightgate Chief Commissioner   Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 12, 2008
Location: Albury, New South Wales


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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:55 pm
My comments would include that freight Australia is already a Seal Rocks. It is a disaster in terms of return for Victoria.

What has Marinus spent the $130m on?

Please someone enlighten me.



CNNNN - "Mr. Howard, what do you think of our new ethanol flavoured lollypops?" Umm Mr. Howard? ..... Mr. Howard??????? ..........
 
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witsend Chief Commissioner   Joined: Jan 01, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 29, 2008
Location: The Beautiful Copper Coast, and sometimes, just north of Pt. Pirie


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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:11 pm
Can't be maintenance.

3 x G Class, Notch 8, Belair Station, 25km/h



Regards,

Samuel Wittwer
Member - LC of Yorke Peninusula Rail
 
s
former employee Chief Train Controller   Joined: Oct 21, 2003
Last Visited: May 20, 2006


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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:40 pm
freightgate wrote:
My comments would include that freight Australia is already a Seal Rocks. It is a disaster in terms of return for Victoria.

What has Marinus spent the $130m on?

Please someone enlighten me.


witsend wrote:
Can't be maintenance.

3 x G Class, Notch 8, Belair Station, 25km/h


Rebuilds of Early series X class Locos And V544.

The taxpayer will have to pay indirectly for upgrading/maintenance of the regional infrastructure which is so run down so I think that $2 is a fair price to pay. FA virtually did very little maintenance on tracks unless they had a derailment or accident then the damage was repaired.
The DOPT will not allow it to get transfered against the public interest.
The sale to PN was valued at $285 m, They bought VLF for just under $163 m so they made a gain of $122 m before any purchase/investment.
So any legal action against the State they would loose as most of the assets have depreciated in value therefore their investment has not been at a loss.

Ray



Ray
 
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realmakoym8 Chief Commissioner   Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Last Visited: Jul 18, 2007
Location: Melbourne


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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:05 pm
Yes and giving that this an American company you could imagine the court circus thats going to follow.....

I say screw FA and pay your dues.

I cant buy a house and do nothing with it no maintenance etc and expect to sell it 5 years later for triple what I paid. (assuming a flat market with 2% growth). Industry has added value on customer margins but there is nothing new with FA. No new stock, locos, equipment and that work they have done has had a tax margin applied on capital investments. So you be FUBAR m8!



There is only one way any building or object or structure could collapse strait down. You would have to remove the resistence below it.
The force of the building pushing up is greater than that of the part of the building falling down.
 
s
Fireman Dave Chief Commissioner   Joined: Jan 12, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Probably Filthy McFaddens


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Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 3:36 pm
Firstly you guys critsizing FA for not undertaking any maintenance to the BG network are forgeting 1 very important fact. When rail America bought Vline Freight it included to lease on the BG network, this included having to allow 3rd party access, but at a rate at which a return could be made on the investment. This right to "make money", for want of a better term, was removed by the Bracks government.
If I was Rail America I wouldn't want to spend large amounts of money on infrastructure so others can make money at my expence.
Also the reason FA has incresed in value is because as far as being an operator it has expanded and has a large number of contracts outside of Victoria, that Vline Freight didn't have.



Dave Malcolm
DRIVER, PN CMD
 
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mjja Sir Nigel Gresley   Joined: Jan 13, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 26, 2008
Location: Mount Waverley, Melbourne


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Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:51 pm
The limit on what FA could charge for track access was because Kennett didn't want them blocking the competition by "conveniently" putting the price of track access too high. It's just an illustration that government interference, even with the best intentions, can backfire.

I put a comment in the News section on this subject but I'll expand on it here:

What should happen is that Rail America/FA and the government should try to settle this out of court. FA should concede that the track today is not in as good condition as when they bought it. The government should concede that it's not nice to seize things off companies if you want to do business with them later. Then they should come to an agreement like "If you fix up the track by doing all the deferred maintenance to get it to the state it was in when you got it (or get it to some national standard of condition - if there is such a thing) then we'll buy it off you at the proper price."

But don't bet on anything.



Happy Gunzelling and remember, "Go by rail!"

Michael Angelico
President, Smart Passengers Inc
(My opinions are my own unless specifically stated.)
 
s
freightgate Chief Commissioner   Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 12, 2008
Location: Albury, New South Wales


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Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:06 pm
Fireman Dave wrote:
If I was Rail America I wouldn't want to spend large amounts of money on infrastructure so others can make money at my expence.

Also the reason FA has incresed in value is because as far as being an operator it has expanded and has a large number of contracts outside of Victoria, that Vline Freight didn't have.


Dave, you raise some good points. However, I am sure the need for investment would have come in somewhere. I understand at handback, track condition needs to be the equivilient of what it was when FA was separated. Someone else could confirm this.

Further, I agree FA has taken on contracts outside of Victoria. I would suggest (rather flipantly) this is so since FA doesn;t want to investment in track and was happy to push interstate because it was not picking up the tab for the maintenance.

I would also make the comment, that FA has not chased the large amount of business in Victoria, that it does have direct access to, rather, it has run the local business down.

There is very little NEW business on rail in victoria since FA took over. Very little. Yet, freight business has grown substantially during that period.

comments anyone?



CNNNN - "Mr. Howard, what do you think of our new ethanol flavoured lollypops?" Umm Mr. Howard? ..... Mr. Howard??????? ..........
 
s
ParkesHub Chief Commissioner   Joined: Jul 29, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008


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Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:24 pm
freightgate wrote:


I would also make the comment, that FA has not chased the large amount of business in Victoria, that it does have direct access to, rather, it has run the local business down.

There is very little NEW business on rail in victoria since FA took over. Very little. Yet, freight business has grown substantially during that period.

comments anyone?


They haven't been banging on the door at 672 Footscray Road, I can tell you that much. Whereas PacNat and ARG are here quite often. FA seem unable to work in with forwarders in joint ventures. In fact, actively work against them. FCL got a contract from Incitec a couple of years back to move trainloads of fertiliser from Newcastle to Geelong (near Geelong). When we approached FA, they wanted us to basically hand the whole deal over to them! Go figure that one. We ended up doing a joint venture with LVR who sourced their equipment from CFCLA and did the business using North Dynon yard. FA came back with their begging bowl....but it was too late. Deal done.

As you say, freightgate, there are ample opportunities for freight business. I guess FA may have changed the name, colour scheme, etc but the haven't changed the attitudes entrenched in their sales and marketing.

ARG may not be perfect but at least they'll listen to proposals and make a few of their own.
 
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freightgate Chief Commissioner   Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 12, 2008
Location: Albury, New South Wales


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Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:30 pm
ParkesHub wrote:
They haven't been banging on the door at 672 Footscray Road, I can tell you that much. Whereas PacNat and ARG are here quite often. FA seem unable to work in with forwarders in joint ventures. In fact, actively work against them. FCL got a contract from Incitec a couple of years back to move trainloads of fertiliser from Newcastle to Geelong (near Geelong). When we approached FA, they wanted us to basically hand the whole deal over to them! Go figure that one. We ended up doing a joint venture with LVR who sourced their equipment from CFCLA and did the business using North Dynon yard. FA came back with their begging bowl....but it was too late. Deal done.


This is just like the many stories I have heard and read about FA. I know of business that will use rail once FA and their management are out of the picture. Victoria and southern NSW are full of opportunities for rail.

Quote:
As you say, freightgate, there are ample opportunities for freight business. I guess FA may have changed the name, colour scheme, etc but the haven't changed the attitudes entrenched in their sales and marketing.


I have a heard from people on this website regarding opportunities in Robinvale and wagon loads of containers to the Port of Melbourne. FA are no-where to be seen and the people who have the freight would not work with them anyhow.

I reiterate my view, Victoria will be a better place, railway speaking, with FA management gone asap. When RA purchased FA, from a management perspective, they just shuffled dekc chairs on the titanic.

I just wonder how profitable they would be if they kept the track maintained to the same level of government once did.



CNNNN - "Mr. Howard, what do you think of our new ethanol flavoured lollypops?" Umm Mr. Howard? ..... Mr. Howard??????? ..........
 
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freightgate Chief Commissioner   Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 12, 2008
Location: Albury, New South Wales


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Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:32 pm
Further, I have heard of larger opportunities in places like Mildura (seen here and on grapevine) where FA is not even interested to the extent, they retrenched their marketing and sales people in Mildura.

I have never been up there, but understand it to be a large produce area which needs fast and reliable access to australia's ports for their produce.

Where is FA?

just let another operator in and start delivering service to customers.



CNNNN - "Mr. Howard, what do you think of our new ethanol flavoured lollypops?" Umm Mr. Howard? ..... Mr. Howard??????? ..........
 
s
mjja Sir Nigel Gresley   Joined: Jan 13, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 26, 2008
Location: Mount Waverley, Melbourne


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Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:40 pm
ParkesHub wrote:
They haven't been banging on the door at 672 Footscray Road, I can tell you that much. Whereas PacNat and ARG are here quite often. FA seem unable to work in with forwarders in joint ventures. In fact, actively work against them. FCL got a contract from Incitec a couple of years back to move trainloads of fertiliser from Newcastle to Geelong (near Geelong). When we approached FA, they wanted us to basically hand the whole deal over to them! Go figure that one. We ended up doing a joint venture with LVR who sourced their equipment from CFCLA and did the business using North Dynon yard. FA came back with their begging bowl....but it was too late. Deal done.


There's a pic of three ELs on the front of a full consist of FCL containers in my section of the gallery.



Happy Gunzelling and remember, "Go by rail!"

Michael Angelico
President, Smart Passengers Inc
(My opinions are my own unless specifically stated.)
 
s
ParkesHub Chief Commissioner   Joined: Jul 29, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008


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Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:54 pm
freightgate wrote:
Further, I have heard of larger opportunities in places like Mildura (seen here and on grapevine) where FA is not even interested to the extent, they retrenched their marketing and sales people in Mildura.


A bit off-topic but...that reminds me of the story the (now ex) FCL NSW Manager told me about the Blayney terminal. Freightrail put the Blayney terminal up for tender because they didn't think the NSW Central West had anymore opportunities for large freight volumes. Blayney is now the largest inland container terminal in the country...bigger than Shepparton, even. Look at Parkes...about 150km further west. FA is exactly the same to my way of thinking. While many branchlines were uneconomic to start with, with that kind of thinking they never stood a chance.

mjja wrote:

There's a pic of three ELs on the front of a full consist of FCL containers in my section of the gallery.


You should get the negs and get yourself a proper print before you depart!
 
s
freightgate Chief Commissioner   Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 12, 2008
Location: Albury, New South Wales


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Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:59 pm
ParkesHub wrote:
A bit off-topic but...that reminds me of the story the (now ex) FCL NSW Manager told me about the Blayney terminal. Freightrail put the Blayney terminal up for tender because they didn't think the NSW Central West had anymore opportunities for large freight volumes. Blayney is now the largest inland container terminal in the country...bigger than Shepparton, even. Look at Parkes...about 150km further west. FA is exactly the same to my way of thinking. While many branchlines were uneconomic to start with, with that kind of thinking they never stood a chance.


We have already had the chat about Wahgunyah. What a waste and turned a customer anti rail. But before everyone starts telling me that was v/line, well aren't they the same management team?

As for Shepparton, how many trains leave shep per day for Melbourne? Are they yet carrying fresh produce?

Also, what ever happened to the Kraft Foods plant that was once near shepp? Do they use rail at all?

--Bill



CNNNN - "Mr. Howard, what do you think of our new ethanol flavoured lollypops?" Umm Mr. Howard? ..... Mr. Howard??????? ..........
 
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ParkesHub Chief Commissioner   Joined: Jul 29, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008


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Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:06 pm
freightgate wrote:
ParkesHub wrote:
A bit off-topic but...that reminds me of the story the (now ex) FCL NSW Manager told me about the Blayney terminal. Freightrail put the Blayney terminal up for tender because they didn't think the NSW Central West had anymore opportunities for large freight volumes. Blayney is now the largest inland container terminal in the country...bigger than Shepparton, even. Look at Parkes...about 150km further west. FA is exactly the same to my way of thinking. While many branchlines were uneconomic to start with, with that kind of thinking they never stood a chance.


We have already had the chat about Wahgunyah. What a waste and turned a customer anti rail. But before everyone starts telling me that was v/line, well aren't they the same management team?

As for Shepparton, how many trains leave shep per day for Melbourne? Are they yet carrying fresh produce?

Also, what ever happened to the Kraft Foods plant that was once near shepp? Do they use rail at all?

--Bill


I'd be surprised if any of them use rail except, perhaps, for export freight.
 
s
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