Whats ARTC Doing

 
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
When and where is ARTC going to start the upgrades to the east coast interstate main lines , any facts available ?

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  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
When and where is ARTC going to start the upgrades to the east coast interstate main lines , any facts available ?
"BDA"


On the North Coast line, there is 60km of Duplication planned past Wallarobba, plus 14 major curve straightening deviations totalling 100km.

Even if the location of the deviations is unclear at this time, some of them could probably be guessed at. For example from Banyabba to Camira Creek.

There are also numerous examples of isolated curve, sometimes just a single sharp curve that spoils an otherwise fast section. Such as Koolkhan (240m 12chains 60km/h) spoiling a 80km/h section. Also Coombell (two reverse curves of 440m 80km/h) spoiling a 13km long section of 115km/h.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
When and where is ARTC going to start the upgrades to the east coast interstate main lines , any facts available ?
"BDA"


The Sep update of News on the ARTC gives more details of the 15 deviations on the NSW North Coast line, including kilometrages.

See http://www.artc.com.au/docs/news/pdf/outline_of_nsw_invest_program.pdf
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
When and where is ARTC going to start the upgrades to the east coast interstate main lines , any facts available ?
"BDA"


The Sep update of News on the ARTC gives more details of the 15 deviations on the NSW North Coast line, including kilometrages.


See http://www.artc.com.au/docs/news/pdf/outline_of_nsw_invest_program.pdf
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Again I should have been more specific . Which part of the system first and when .
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
ARTC North Coast Deviations

Here are details according to ARTC.

#_ __ km__ Start ____________ km__ Finish

00 __ 194.0 Telarah __________ 231.0km Wallarabba - possible duplication.
00 __ 231.0 Wallarobba _______ 294.0       Stratford - duplication.
01 __ 352.4 Kimbriki _________ 360.3 Killawarra Deviation
02 __ 389.5 Kundle Kundle ____ 401.0 Coopernoo Deviation – bypass Melinga
03 __ 427.9 Johns River ______ 435.6 Herons Creek
04 __ 491.2 Kundabung _______ 497.5 Maria Creek
05 __ 525.5 Tamban _________ 536.4 Eungai
06 __ 556.9 Wirrimbi ________  561.8 Nambucca Heads
07 __ 588.0 Repton __________ 593.8 Bonville
08 __ 688.1 Braunstone ______ 695.0 Grafton
14 __ 706.5 Koolkhan ________ 713.6 Kyarran
11 __ 720.0 Little Lawrence ___ 730.0 Gurranang
12 __ 756.0 Camira Creek ____ 776.0 Rappville
13 __ 780.0 Coombell ________ 790.0 ?
09 __ 828.0 Cedar Point ______ 833.6 Kyogle
10 __ 846.3 Wiangaree _______ 852.8 The Risk



It is not clear if the deviations are numbered by ARTC in order of priority or randomly.
  DavidB Moderator

Location: Canberra
On the North Coast line, there is 60km of Duplication planned past Wallarobba, plus 14 major curve straightening deviations totalling 100km.

Even if the location of the deviations is unclear at this time, some of them could probably be guessed at. For example from Banyabba to Camira Creek.
"awsgc24"

Most loops to have turnouts replaced to allow 60km/h diverge.

Cheers
David
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
When and where is ARTC going to start the upgrades to the east coast interstate main lines , any facts available ?
"BDA"


The Sep update of News on the ARTC gives more details of the 15 deviations on the NSW North Coast line, including kilometrages.


See http://www.artc.com.au/docs/news/pdf/outline_of_nsw_invest_program.pdf
"awsgc24"


page 7 of this report mentions works in SA for Port River stage 2&3 $80.0m ??  What are these works?  Anyone guess?
  DavidB Moderator

Location: Canberra
Is the rebuilding of Sandgate an ARTC project? The plans were around long before ARTC proposed taking the lease but I don't know if funding was ever appropriated for RIC to do it.

Cheers
David
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney

Most loops to have turnouts replaced to allow 60km/h diverge.
"DavidB"


No changes are therefore required to the signalling for trains departing a loop with a 60km/h turnout, except the addition of a suitable speed board.

For arriving trains entering the loop through these 60km/h turnouts, the Red/Red/Small Green aspect would want to be replaced by Red/Yellow-Band aspects, with a Flashing Yellow at the previous distant signal to advise of the 60km/h turnout ahead.

Is that what is intended?
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

page 7 of this report mentions works in SA for Port River stage 2&3 $80.0m ??  What are these works?  Anyone guess?
"freightgate"

Do you mean "what are stages 2 and 3" or "what is the Port River project"?
If you go this URL you will see some answers to both questions:
http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/transport_network/projects/port_xpress/index.asp

John
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
page 7 of this report mentions works in SA for Port River stage 2&3 $80.0m ??  What are these works?  Anyone guess?
"freightgate"

Do you mean "what are stages 2 and 3" or "what is the Port River project"?
If you go this URL you will see some answers to both questions:
http://www.transport.sa.gov.au/transport_network/projects/port_xpress/index.asp

"duttonbay"


Stages 2 & 3

Stage 3 is the Rail bridge over the Port River.

Tenders for Stages 2 and 3, the Road and Rail Bridges, closed on the 24 August. The Road and Rail Bridges, estimated to have a capital cost of approximately $136 million will be delivered through a Design-Construct-Maintain-Operate contract. A contract should be awarded in 2005 and works should be completed late 2006 - early 2007.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
What access to what facilities will the bridges provide?  Is this a previously non-rail site?

--Bill
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

The new rail bridge will provide direct access to the Birkenhead and Pelican Point line - the existing route requires freight trains to join to the Trans-Adelaide suburban line, climb up and over the Commercial Road viaduct, then over the river and the dual gauge bridge, before separating again at Glanville and heading back towards Birkenhead.  
With the direct access the freight trains will save quite a deal of time, and also not interfere with the suburban passenger service.
There's lots a rail served stuff up that line - the Penrice stone train unloads up there, and there are Grain and Container terminals (more?)
John
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
So at the moment ARTC is a Dulux Overhaul ie pretty white line across the tracks at Macarthur and Telarah ? Maybe they're waiting to see if Lil Johnny Rotten or Milton The Mugster get in .
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
So at the moment ARTC is a Dulux Overhaul ie pretty white line across the tracks at Macarthur and Telarah ? Maybe they're waiting to see if Lil Johnny Rotten or Milton The Mugster get in .
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
They have finally done something , their vehicles (road and rail) have grown ARTC stickers over the RIC ones . Nothings been painted yet so no demolition on the horizon so far .
  bobcarey Assistant Commissioner

Location: offrail
DavidB wrote that most loops to have 60 k/m/p/h entry and exit. On Artc website, latest claims only 50 k/m/p/h/ speed. Maybe there is a later document .
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Probably a typo , can't see millions being spent to up turnout speeds from 50 to 60 . Also many of the loops could be re railed and sleepered because you'd be taking your life in your hands to do much over 25km/h even if the signalling permitted it which it dosen't .
  MD Chief Commissioner

Location: Canbera
Probably a typo , can't see millions being spent to up turnout speeds from 50 to 60 . Also many of the loops could be re railed and sleepered because you'd be taking your life in your hands to do much over 25km/h even if the signalling permitted it which it dosen't .
"BDA"



There was also supposed to be a modification to the CTC interlockings in NSW  to allow simultaenous entry to loops , which is what VIC,SA and WA CTC already allows.
It makes sense if you have 1500 M or longer loops in that you can have trains crossing without stopping.

MD
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Probably a typo , can't see millions being spent to up turnout speeds from 50 to 60 . Also many of the loops could be re railed and sleepered because you'd be taking your life in your hands to do much over 25km/h even if the signalling permitted it which it dosen't .
"BDA"


While the short 400m loops might have rotten track, presumably the lengthened loops of 750m or 1500m would have their track upgraded to mainline standard as part of any lengthening project, would it not?
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney

There was also supposed to be a modification to the CTC interlockings in NSW  to allow simultaenous entry to loops , which is what VIC,SA and WA CTC already allows.
"MD"


Note that simultaneous arrival at CTC crossing loops in WA was supposed to have been disconnected as recommended by the coroner after the Hines Hill head on collision.

To restore simultaneous arrivals, one would have to do one or more of the following:

* provide safety margin (overlap) between starting signal and fouling point.
* provide catch points, such as between Junee and Albury.
* provide ATP (Automatic Train Protection) of some kind.
  MD Chief Commissioner

Location: Canbera

There was also supposed to be a modification to the CTC interlockings in NSW  to allow simultaenous entry to loops , which is what VIC,SA and WA CTC already allows.
"MD"


Note that simultaneous arrival at CTC crossing loops in WA was supposed to have been disconnected as recommended by the coroner after the Hines Hill head on collision.

To restore simultaneous arrivals, one would have to do one or more of the following:

* provide safety margin (overlap) between starting signal and fouling point.
* provide catch points, such as between Junee and Albury.
* provide ATP (Automatic Train Protection) of some kind.
"awsgc24"


Yes but why.
There arnt any catchpoints in VIC or SA (I dont know about WA.) or any kinds of ATP.
Apart from Hines Hill where the accident would still have happened even without simultaenous crossings (it would have been a head on.)
Im unaware of a single incident where an accident has happened on CTC territory due to simultaenous crossings being allowed.

MD
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney

There was also supposed to be a modification to the CTC interlockings in NSW  to allow simultaenous entry to loops , which is what VIC,SA and WA CTC already allows.
"MD"


Note that simultaneous arrival at CTC crossing loops in WA was supposed to have been disconnected as recommended by the coroner after the Hines Hill head on collision.

To restore simultaneous arrivals, one would have to do one or more of the following:

* provide safety margin (overlap) between starting signal and fouling point.
* provide catch points, such as between Junee and Albury.
* provide ATP (Automatic Train Protection) of some kind.
"awsgc24"


Yes but why.
There arnt any catchpoints in VIC or SA (I dont know about WA.) or any kinds of ATP.
Apart from Hines Hill where the accident would still have happened even without simultaenous crossings (it would have been a head on.)
Im unaware of a single incident where an accident has happened on CTC territory due to simultaenous crossings being allowed.

MD
"MD"


Junee-Albury is the only section in Australia to have loop catchpoints at every crossing loops (plus Willow Tree, Kankool, and a few odd loops on steep grades on the North Coast line).

The catch points provide a safety margin if the train entering the loop and the driver miscalculates, particularly if the train length is almost as long as the loop lengths.

Other states probably don't bother with catchpoints because
* traffic desity is less.
* loops are straight and level, and visibility is good.

At Hines Hill the suggestion is that the driver (and possibly the boy with him) miscalculated the distance to the starting signal at red thus causing the collision.

At Hines Hill, it is not known if the driver had suffered a Violet Town-like heart attack and had gone through several signals.

At Hines Hill, if there had been no simultaneous arrival, the driver with the boy would have had to have gone through two red signals, not likely unless he/they were asleep or had suffered heart attacks.

A half decent ATP system would have prevented the Hines Hill collision.

Catchpoints on the main line as well as the loop would have prevented the Hines Hill collision, at the cost of a derailment, and an unpredicatable amount of collision.

Surely a half decent ATP system would be better than catchpoints, since you would avoid a derailment caused by the catchpoints.

At Hines Hill, the loop was only slightly longer than one of the trains, illustrating the point that loops should if possible be a few hundred metres longer than any train.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Because the rugged terrain on the North Coast make duplications and deviations slow and difficult to design for land acquisition reasons amongst others, ARTC have decided to opt for a more limited program of works on the North Coast, mainly loop extensions and CTC works.

Hopefully, deviations and duplications will be back on the agenda in the next round of Auslink proposals.

On the South, much of the track is straight for long distances, so that duplication is simple, and deviations unnecessary.

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