Edited 20 Jun 2019 16:18, 2 years ago, edited by Ethan1395

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Guys, we have been constantly repeating ourselves to each other all throughout the topic, you are misunderstanding the things I am saying and perhaps I have been misunderstanding some of the things you have been saying. So I would like to respond do you all at once in dot points:

• I would never suggest to stop building infrastructure in Sydney to allocate resources elsewhere, Sydney needs MORE infrastructure; Northern Beaches rail line, rail lines following major arterial roads such as King Georges Road and Victoria Road, ESR extension, SWRL extension, etc.
  The only thing I would suggest to not build so resources can be allocated elsewhere would be High Speed Rail if it were ever seriously considered, as the cost of high speed rail would be equal to the cost of all the required infrastructure in Sydney, Wollongong Newcastle, and leave enough left over to upgrades existing rail to MSR.
  
• I would never suggest building the same amount or same kinds of infrastructure that Sydney has in Newcastle, you could never justify a turn-up-and-go 4 minute frequency metro or the world's longest trams or 8 carriage DD trains in Newcastle. Sydney has 4M people and growing and needs these services that couldn't be justified in Newcastle. The issue is that Newcastle has NOTHING, the issue is not that it doesn't have the same as Sydney.
  
• Before anything else is built, the current services need to be fixed and made usable. Fix the line between Newcastle and Fassifern for local services by building stations next to the local destinations the line passes, improving pedestrian access to existing stations, improve connections with the Hunter Line, and improving frequencies to 3 or 4 trains per hour. At the same time, make improvements bus, ferry, and light rail services.
  See how patronage improves, and then and ONLY then, talk about building new lines.
  
• Light rail extension as opposed to building new lines (current line should still be upgraded) would be sufficient provided it turned into an actual network with multiple lines and serving all major areas. Light rail is probably are more suitable service than heavy rail in a city the size and population of Newcastle or Wollongong, assuming the services would be faster or the equal speed of driving.
  Although heavy rail might actually be CHEAPER since corridors have been preserved - but it would face local opposition from people who wouldn't want to lose their bike tracks or have trains running in their backyard, despite the fact that having rail lines would do better for the community than a walking track in an unwalkable city.
  
• Regarding cars and the cost of living, the big issue is the REQUIREMENT to own 4 cars to get buy out of Sydney, even in Sydney people will always choose to own multiple cars, but it's reasonable to get by with just 1 in many cases.
  The inexcusable problem is the fact that the services are so poor (ranked 5th worst in the state) that hiring managers, even for 17 year olds, don't like to hire people who catch public transport, requiring people to get a car before getting a job, instead of getting a job to pay for a car, and since the only way to get a car without a job is to come from a family wealthy enough to pay for all the costs, it's clear to see the issue.
  RTT_Rules pointed out that you don't need to be rich to buy a car, but buying the car is the easy part, all of the associated costs of insurance, registration, maintenance, repairs, servicing, etc can cost on average $500 a month, and you are somehow meant to pay this before getting a job?
  This might be excusable in rural Australia or a regional town, but in a costal city of 400K, it's not.
  
• Regarding the cost of improving services, will it cost money? yes. Billions? hopefully not. But how much money does it cost now to run services that carry primarily air and empty seats and the occasional pensioner? It is cheaper to run empty services than to construct usable ones? probably, but what's more sustainable.
  In fact, the services are so underutilized since local destinations have no stations and existing stations lack the basic pedestrian infrastucture for them to even be accessible, that more people advocate for closure of local stations than improvements, which solution sounds best though:
        -close local stations such as Booragul, Teralba, Cockle Creek, Kotara, and Adamstown, and use the line almost soley for the Sydney commute
        -once the Fassifern-Hexham line is built, close the line entirely and turn it into a rail trail and construct a large commuter car park at Fassifern
        -construct new local stations and upgrade accessibility to existing stations, and improve service frequency between Newcastle and Fassifern
  
• Regarding the geographically diverse employment opportunities, while I have said in the past that few worked in the CBD, there is still enough people working there to make some Hunter Line services run standing room only (according to a6et), so why couldn't a proper local service from Fassifern do the same thing? also, new stations along the existing line will help with proving PT to some of the geographically diverse employment opportunities.
  
• Regarding current patronage, you rely on current patronage statistics of any form to get an idea of how many could use improved services since current services are almost unusable (Keolis Downer recently announced that three bus routes 41, 43, and 48 would have the service frequency dropped to every 2 hours due to an expansion of the on demand service which is NOT cost effective PT).
  Who want to rely on a train that you need to risk your life to cross the road to access the station, or a bus that if you miss, you are either stuck for an hour or 2 or until the next morning waiting for the next service which mean an expensive Uber ride?
  
• This topic is entirely about local public transport and is unrelated to the Sydney commute, while it's clear that intercity/interurban routes need realignment and curve easing, and parking upgrades are needed at Gosford and Woy Woy.

Hope this clears things up a little bit, so we don't have to feel like we need to keep repeating ourselves to each other, and making this topic a burden.