Geelong line platform lengthening

 
  wongm GEEWONG

Location: Geelong, Victoria
From the Geelong Advertiser:
http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2008/09/06/17992_news.html

Extra carriages for busy V/line services

Jane Harper

Station works start on Monday, which will allow an extra carriage to be added to each of Geelong's four busiest trains by the end of the year, creating an extra 80 seats on each service.

At present, stations at Marshall, South Geelong and North Geelong are only long enough to accommodate six carriages, but extending the platforms by three metres will create enough space for a seventh carriage to be added.

The work at Marshall Station is expected to be completed within a few weeks, but will take longer at North and South Geelong stations as lengths of track have to be moved.

Work will start at North Geelong as soon as Marshall is completed, and at South Geelong at the end of the football season.

Disruption to services should be minimal and it is expected the extra carriages will be added by Christmas.


Seems like a waste at Marshall all they need is 3 metres more, and they only built it a few years ago.

They might end up extending them even further to 8 cars as well, but I wonder if they end up doing it later on, needing to call the guys back again and driving up the cost... Rolling Eyes

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  574M White Guru

Location: Shepparton
So, where do we get the extra carriage from? Shocked
  Loco Administrator Railpage 2 Developer

Location: Melbourne
My guess would be a 3 car V/Locity, along with 2 x 2 Car ones.

= 7 cars...
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Now none of this announcement really makes much sense.
Seven car N sets have been operating as 1715 Dn Sth Geelong well before the 05/2006 timetable.

Firstly, 7 N cars are  160m long (180m with N loco)
2 car V/L + 3 car V/L + 2 car V/L  =  7 car Vlocity = 175m

Secondly, current platform lengths are Marshall  160m, Sth Geelong 159m, Geelong  (1) 205m (2/3) 185m  Nth Geelong  173m  North Shore 173m  Corio  159m  Lara  173m  Little River  159m  Werribee  Dn  170m  Up 159m Newport  159m  Footscray  Dn 159m Up  163m  Nth Melbourne (5/6) 159m .

Media report mentioned extra car on 4 busiest peak period services. That would suggest 2 Up and 2 Down stopping Marshall, Sth Geelong, Geelong, Nth Geelong, and Nth Melbourne services. Also media said take longer to extend at Sth Geelong and Nth Geelong account track moves needed.

Marshall -  7 N cars will fit in 163m at Marshall but not 7 V/L .
Sth Geelong - 7 N cars will fit in 163 m but not 7 V/L .
Geelong - already able to hold 7 N cars or 7 V/L  on all plats .
Nth Geelong - Already able to hold 7 N cars and with a few extra metres could hold 7 V/L.  
Nth Melbourne - (5/6) Could possibly be extended in Up direction (Signalling complications  / track circuits etc ?)

Also whilst it would require moving Annet locked points further in down direction at Sth Geelong, to extend Nth Geelong at down end there should be no signals or track involved it is straight railed .

The extra cars come available as a result of cascade following arrival of V/L centre cars .

Agree, this is Mickey Mouse stuff - as a minimum the plats at Marshall,
Sth Geelong, Nth Geelong, Lara, Nth Melbourne (5/6) should be extended to 175 - 180m to accommodate 7 car V/L trains running both the Express or Ltd Express stopping patterns.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
From the Geelong Advertiser:
http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2008/09/06/17992_news.html

Extra carriages for busy V/line services

Jane Harper

Station works start on Monday, which will allow an extra carriage to be added to each of Geelong's four busiest trains by the end of the year, creating an extra 80 seats on each service.

At present, stations at Marshall, South Geelong and North Geelong are only long enough to accommodate six carriages, but extending the platforms by three metres will create enough space for a seventh carriage to be added.

The work at Marshall Station is expected to be completed within a few weeks, but will take longer at North and South Geelong stations as lengths of track have to be moved.

Work will start at North Geelong as soon as Marshall is completed, and at South Geelong at the end of the football season.

Disruption to services should be minimal and it is expected the extra carriages will be added by Christmas.


Seems like a waste at Marshall all they need is 3 metres more, and they only built it a few years ago.

They might end up extending them even further to 8 cars as well, but I wonder if they end up doing it later on, needing to call the guys back again and driving up the cost... Rolling Eyes
"wongm"


Hi Marcus, think of the bigger picture.

You know Marshall isn't going to be the terminus forever, err, you do don't you Question
  Mickelaar The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: At the layout, tinkering.
Any improvement is good improvement.

Wouldn't Werribee and the Melbourne station lengths need to be amended also?
  DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

No obvious forward planning in the building of Marshall platform, eh?

Now, lets see how they are going to extend North Melbourne!

And, will this cause a longer delay getting in to Southern Cross as the train waits for a suitable length platform to become free?
  fullofrubbish Assistant Commissioner

Location: Brunswick
Now, lets see how they are going to extend North Melbourne!
"DalyWaters"


Easy. Don't stop there  Twisted Evil
  574M White Guru

Location: Shepparton
My guess would be a 3 car V/Locity, along with 2 x 2 Car ones.

= 7 cars...
"Loco"


I did think of that, but I don't think its going to happen. Big waste of trainsets, I'd say.

Hi Marcus, think of the bigger picture.

You know Marshall isn't going to be the terminus forever, err, you do don't you
"The Vinelander"


A new station called Seachange nearby Ocean Grove?
  fast01 BUTTSCRATCHER!

Location: Somewhere your not.
My guess would be a 3 car V/Locity, along with 2 x 2 Car ones.

= 7 cars...
"Loco"


I did think of that, but I don't think its going to happen. Big waste of trainsets, I'd say.
"574M"
Really? You'd better tell the Cars office quick smart that they are wasting a set on every single 2x2x2 V'locity run then...
  scottydl Train Controller

The platform lengthening at the locations on the Geelong corridor will be completed in time for the 9th November VLP & Connex major timetable changes. There will be 2 x 2 Car & 1 x 3 Car Vlocity configurations on the following trains, which are the heaviest peak runs as regular commuters will vouch for -

1640 Dn Marshall & 1729 Dn Marshall flagship. The morning runs will be the 0650 Up Marshall and the 0717 Up Sth Geelong flagship. Also various off-peak and weekend running as single 3 Car units.

The 3rd 3 Car unit (VL 39) is out doing more testing on Tuesday and hopefully will finally take up its 1520 Traralgon & 0710 Up run some time later in the week.

The 4th & 5th units VL 38 (currently at Bombardier) and VL 37 (to go in as soon as 39 comes out) are planned for the increased Geelong line capacity mentioned above - by the 9th November.
  Loco Administrator Railpage 2 Developer

Location: Melbourne
My guess would be a 3 car V/Locity, along with 2 x 2 Car ones.

= 7 cars...
"Loco"


I did think of that, but I don't think its going to happen. Big waste of trainsets, I'd say.
"574M"


There will be 2 x 2 Car & 1 x 3 Car Vlocity configurations on the following trains, which are the heaviest peak runs as regular commuters will vouch for -
"scottydl"


Back to what I was saying earlier?  Rolling Eyes
  alstom_888m Chief Commissioner

Location:
A new station called Seachange nearby Ocean Grove?
"574M"


Doubt it, that whole area is marshland. Be very expensive to lay tracks to Ocean Grove. It would be nice seeing as it's currently serviced by a bus every 2-3 hours with nothing after about 5:30pm, but rail... I just don't see it happening.

BTW: Marshall - marshland... geddit?  Twisted Evil
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Note that there is another thread about Overshooting Platforms, albeit in Sydney, which has some relevance to this thread.

http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11343567.htm

All other things being equal, for fastest stops at platforms, platforms should be "significantly longer" than the trains that stop there. Otherwise the train has to slow carefully and with precision, which wastes time.

So extend the platforms by 20m not 3m. Priority should be given to platforms on steep falling gradients particularly where approach speeds are high; in Sydney this would be Pymble, Janalli, Oatley, Denistone amongst other stations.

This is one of the few things that can be done quickly to speed up Melbourne trains.


Questions: A) Are platforms in Melbourne/Brisbane/Perth/Adelaide marked with 3/6 car markers like the 4/6/8 car markers in Sydney?

B) To help passengers position themselves on the platforms, there should also be markers for the REAR of the trains. Is this done?

C) Do the electronic destination indicators on the platforms in Melbourne, etc, say how many cars the trains have, like wot Sydney does?

D) Does the minister or her minders ever read posts like this on Railpage?
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

...like wot Sydney does?
"awsgc24"

what?

Does the minister or her minders ever read posts like this on Railpage Australia™?

If the answer was "yes", any credibility goes out the window when words like "wot" appear...
  wongm GEEWONG

Location: Geelong, Victoria
Seven car N sets have been operating as 1715 Dn Sth Geelong well before the 05/2006 timetable.

Sth Geelong - 7 N cars will fit in 163 m but not 7 V/L. Also whilst it would require moving Annet locked points further in down direction at Sth Geelong.
"kuldalai"

At South Geelong a 7 car N set hangs over - back in 2005 they ran a number of them of a morning, and the back door would hang off:
[img]http://images.fotopic.net/yavwlc.jpg[/img]

While the platform can fit all the cars, it doesn't work with up trains as the loco is hanging off and fouling the level crossing. Not an issue with trains starting at Marshall (they set off the gates before arriving) but for trains starting at South Geelong it is an issue.

If you were going to move the Annet locked points in a down direction, you might as well remove the siding altogether. It appears sonly some signallers actually use it, others prefering to use the siding on the other side, as it can be operated from the interlocking frame - someone doesn't need to walk down with the key to operate it. If they are short of space then they could extend the siding on the other side more towards Queenscliff.

Nth Geelong - Already able to hold 7 N cars and with a few extra metres could hold 7 V/L.
"kuldalai"

The up platform used to have about 5 more metres of length at the up end, until the RFR related resignalling. I think they needed the extra room for the signal, so it was cut back and removed. The station sign and lamp was sitting out in the middle of nowhere until a few months ago.

Wouldn't Werribee and the Melbourne station lengths need to be amended also?
"dad2natalie"

The main capacity constraints are on the 'flagship' expresses - and they express run from North Geelong to North Melbourne. The all stopper trains are not at 6 cars long yet - for example the 0656 up Geelong is a 3 or 4 car N set, and the 1736 down South Geelong is a pair of Sprinters.

Are platforms in Melbourne/Brisbane/Perth/Adelaide marked with 3/6 car markers like the 4/6/8 car markers in Sydney?
"awsgc24"

Melbourne has markers for the front of 3/6 car sets, as well as for 3 car units by themselves (they stop near the station entry)

V/Line has started to paint V1 / V2 / V3 markers onto platforms, marking the stopping locations of VLocities.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Re Scotty DL's posting .  A 7 car Vlocity is assumed as being 175m long (unless the intermediate cars in the 3 car set are shorter than 25m). So a set made up of  2 + 3 + 2 = 7 cars would be 175m which in excess of the stated planned extension platform length of 163m .  Even allowing say for the leading and trailing noses to be off platform the length would only come back to something like  169m and require very precise stopping .

So either the platforms are going to be longer than 163m or one could have half the rear car off the platform if one could electrically lock that door . In that way passenger access would still be available to the rear car by one doorway .

Still seems an incomplete picture. Generally with signal sighting, stopping , approach speeds it is desirable to have the platform 10m overlength for some margin of flexibility .

With Sth Geelong the Annett siding could come out altogether, and the old Queenscliff line siding beyond Swanston St lx is long enough to hold two trainsets and locos . (The ability to extend this siding further in a Down direction is limited by the close proximity of the Wood St level crossing . In reality this should be connected here back into the mainline and thus provide a much needed crossing loop at South Geelong at low cost.) In that case the platform extension at Sth Geelong could be taken further out towards the Dn Home departure signal , especially with a platform level repeater signal like at the Up end of the platform .
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
...like wot Sydney does?
"awsgc24"

what?

Does the minister or her minders ever read posts like this on Railpage Australia™™?

If the answer was "yes", any credibility goes out the window when words like "wot" appear...
"duttonbay"


How often is it necessary to state that it's not just gunzels that read these posts  QuestionRolling Eyes
  574M White Guru

Location: Shepparton
.

Still seems an incomplete picture. Generally with signal sighting, stopping , approach speeds it is desirable to have the platform 10m overlength for some margin of flexibility .
"kuldalai"


I think you are very much right here, and that perhaps, someone, somewhere, has made an incorrect citation / misquoted/miscalculated, etcetera, etcetera. There is really no point in arguing among ourselves if this refers to N or VL sets until the correct figures are provided.
  Deanodriver Chief Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
A new station called Seachange nearby Ocean Grove?
"574M"


Doubt it, that whole area is marshland. Be very expensive to lay tracks to Ocean Grove. It would be nice seeing as it's currently serviced by a bus every 2-3 hours with nothing after about 5:30pm, but rail... I just don't see it happening.

BTW: Marshall - marshland... geddit?  Twisted Evil
"alstom_888m"


If you wanted to run a track to Ocean Grove, you'd probably be better off re-doing the Bellarine line, and branching off to Ocean Grove after Drysdale (gives the added advantage (if the room still exists) of introducing an eastern Geelong station, Leopold and Drysdale).

Having lived on the Bellarine for a long time (still do), the area needs a decent bus service first. Whilst a return of regular pax trains might be good for gunzels, a more regular bus service would be fine. If you want to get to Geelong by 8am from most of the Bellarine, the ONLY bus available will get you there before 7am.

Wouldn't Werribee and the Melbourne station lengths need to be amended also?
"dad2natalie"

The main capacity constraints are on the 'flagship' expresses - and they express run from North Geelong to North Melbourne. The all stopper trains are not at 6 cars long yet - for example the 0656 up Geelong is a 3 or 4 car N set, and the 1736 down South Geelong is a pair of Sprinters.
"wongm"


The 1736 Down could probably use a third car, though (I used it regularly in the summer, was fairly full). I can see it receiving a three car VLo sometime in the future.

It seems that most of the peak AM stopper services are FN/VN sets, excepting the first two (which I'd imagine are Sprinters), the express services, and of course, SN7.

Would there be a case for a third express service on the Geelong line? Naturally, there's not the rollingstock, but assuming there was.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Now the Ministers Press Release in Geelong area makes no mention of extending North Geelong, and only talks of Marshall & South Geelong .

Appears GA may have stuffed report up and that is Nth Melbourne they were talking about extending  (presumably 5/6), not Nth Geelong (which is already over 173m .)  

Marshall needs around 13m to fit on 7 V/L and same at South Geelong, not
3 m.  Geelong plats are all capable of holding 7 V/L now. Ditto Nth Geelong and Lara. With 13m on 5/6 at Nth Melbourne then 7 car V/locities can be run on these two stopping seuences covering some of the most crowded services :
1. Marshall, Sth Geelong, Geelong, Nth Geelong, Nth Melbourne.
2. Marshall, Sth Geelong, Geelong, Nth Geelong, Lara, Nth Melbourne.

The stopping sequences mentioned in 1 cover the four peak services nominated by Scottydl as 7 car operations :  0650 Up Mshl  0717 Up Sgr  1640 Dn Mshl and  1729  Dn Mshl .
  wongm GEEWONG

Location: Geelong, Victoria
Linky to the media release.

Platforms at two Geelong stations will be lengthened to allow V/Line to run the biggest short-distance passenger trains in the state from the end of this year.

Wootzor! Roll out the streamers and balloons for one extra car!
  Deanodriver Chief Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
The stopping sequences mentioned in 1 cover the four peak services nominated by Scottydl as 7 car operations :  0650 Up Mshl  0717 Up Sgr  1640 Dn Mshl and  1729  Dn Mshl .
"kuldalai"


Actually, don't the sets used in the Geelong services (especially the up ones) become other services as well? After all, the 0717 Up South Geelong is the return leg of the 0555 Down service. Isn't it an 0830 Traralgon service as well (or do they remove units)?

Likewise with the 0650 Up Marshall, I've seen it leaving Southern Cross as the 0810 Ararat, with all six cars still attached. Will the stations along the Traralgon and Ararat lines also be able to support the seven car trains, or will the extra units all be removed at Southern Cross/timetabling changes?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line


Likewise with the 0650 Up Marshall, I've seen it leaving Southern Cross as the 0810 Ararat, with all six cars still attached. Will the stations along the Traralgon and Ararat lines also be able to support the seven car trains, or will the extra units all be removed at Southern Cross/timetabling changes?
"Deanodriver"


Due to the much lighter pax loading on the early down Ararat, though more pax that you might expect for that time of the morning for a down service, as I used to see it go through North Melb whilst waiting for my loop train.
It looks like at least one set is locked off so the conductor can keep an eye on pax. This would also allow the extra car to travel to Ararat with the locked cars.

I believe the train is broken up at Ballarat to provide an up service whilst a single set continues to Ararat.

Mike.
  wongm GEEWONG

Location: Geelong, Victoria
As mentioned in a dribble soaked thread:
http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1136317.htm#1136317

The 16.13 down Marshall does not change consist, however the 17.36 down South Geelong gets an extra sprinter attached to its consist.
Of perticular interest is that the 16.40 and 17.29 down Marshall services will operate as 7 car Vlocities.
"Nexas"

I'd imagine the 0650 Marshall and 0717 South Geelong up services have the seventh car as well. Smile
"Deanodriver"


Yes, correct.

All four services operate express between North Melbourne and North Geelong. North Melbourne is having two platforms extended to accomodate the lengthened trains.
"Nexas"


The works to North Melbourne platform 5/6 - the signals are being relocated south for an extra car worth of platforms. I first though it had to do with the new concourse:
[img]http://www.railgeelong.com/gallery/geelong-line/north-melbourne/image/500/D608_0832.jpg[/img]

South Geelong got a new set of points at the down end on Saturday / Sunday. The foreground ones will be removed for the platform:
[img]http://www.railgeelong.com/gallery/geelong-line/south-geelong/image/500/D611_1198.jpg[/img]

And Marshall has been like this for a while, with a bit added at the up end and a lot more at the down:
[img]http://www.railgeelong.com/gallery/geelong-line/marshall/image/500/D611_1161.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.railgeelong.com/gallery/geelong-line/marshall/image/500/D611_1158.jpg[/img]

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