Additional services on the Geelong line

 
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
At first what appeared to be a huge announcement is a bit of a let down. One extra service each way on weekdays.

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2011/04/15/253591_news.html

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  Skipdaddyo Chief Train Controller

Location: Living the dream
Link should read

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2011/04/15/253591_news.html

8)

A service every 11 minutes in the am and every 13 in the pm isn't altogether bad mind you - my local station has 10 up services between 0720 and 0905 (vs 9 at Geelong) and 11 down services which leave Flinders Street between 1600 and 1800 (vs 9 for Geelong)
  SteamtoStay Chief Commissioner

Location: Building floorplates
According to the full set of press releases;

* Geelong gets a new 6-car VLocity on the up in morning peak, departing Marshall at 7:08 and arriving at Southern Cross at 8:22 and a down FN set departing Southern Cross at 16:47 for a 17:53 arrival in Geelong.

* The 6:02am up ex Bendigo will start from Eaglehawk at 5:46 and now be 2x 2VL instead of 1x 3VL, and it will have an added stop at Gisborne.

* The 6:03am up ex Eaglehawk will instead start from Bendigo at 6:12, and will later have one of its two 2VL sets swapped with a 3VL set - but not immediately, due to infrastrucutre changes required at Bendigo.

* The 7:38 Wendouree train will now depart at 7:33, and the 16:37 train from Melbourne will depart at 16:36, both having an added stop at Ballan.

* The 18:25 Bairnsdale train will instead depart Southern Cross at 18:36.

* The 6:00 Traralgon to Melbourne train will instead depart at 5:50.

* The 6:44 Traralgon to Melbourn train will instead depart at 6:28, arriving in Melbourne at 8:51 instead of 9:00.

* A lot of other trains and coaches will depart/arrive a few minutes earlier or later.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Are the Geelong and Bendigo the only lines which will see increased services?

--Bill
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
According to the full set of press releases;...  
"SteamtoStay"


It might actually be better to post links to the press releases than to inaccurately type up a list. Geelong, Bendigo, Ballarat, Gippsland and Seymours links in that order, below.

http://www.vline.com.au/about/news/mediareleases/1417652551/Article.aspx

http://www.vline.com.au/about/news/mediareleases/1573047608/Article.aspx

http://www.vline.com.au/about/news/mediareleases/867669989/Article.aspx

http://www.vline.com.au/about/news/mediareleases/506910704/Article.aspx

http://www.vline.com.au/about/news/mediareleases/1573992675/Article.aspx

Interesting politics behind the Ballan and Gisborne stops and a few minutes added to Geelong services here and there will IMO see a corresponding reduction in travel time when RRL is completed. Therefore giving more media 'bang for buck' publicity.

Needless to say, Ballan will now have an excellent weekday commuter service now, with a departure at 7:55, EXPRESS to North Melbourne and change to loop around 8:45 will have in in my office by 9AM Exclamation  8)


So no more 64 minutes trips to Ballarat?
"Duncs"


Funny thing with the 64 mins flagship time to Ballarat is it's quite a slack T/T and it has easily been done in under an hour by some of the more 'enthusiastic' drivers.

Mike.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

So no more 64 minutes trips to Ballarat?
  ParkesHub Chief Commissioner

..... and there will IMO see a corresponding reduction in travel time when RRL is completed. ....
"The Vinelander"


What's the scope to achieve this works completion?
  DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

Needless to say, Ballan will now have an excellent weekday commuter service now, with a departure at 7:55, EXPRESS to North Melbourne and change to loop around 8:45 will have in in my office by 9AM


Which won't be possible with RRL.

No twenty minute or half hourly daytime Geelong services then?

Half hourly Geelongs would have been very cost effective as V/Line struggles to find parking places for trains during the day.  Still, it was a Labor promise so it has to be ignored for a while, lest Labor claim the credit for the initiative.
  712M Chief Commissioner

* The 6:44 Traralgon to Melbourn train will instead depart at 6:28, arriving in Melbourne at 8:51 instead of 9:00.
"SteamtoStay"


Interesting that the journey will take 7 minutes longer. Is the train still going to be run with a Sprinter pair?
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Caveat  Emptor .  

Filter out the "spin".

1. Werribee is the ONLY line with a total timetable re-write , others are basically same Metro tt.

2. Wait till we see the details of the actual timetables in the case of especially Geelong one suspects that with a higher frequency Werribee Metro service an 11 minute headways if IIRC then the existing Geelongs are going to be moved to fit in with the Werribee pattern, and no doubt slowed within the Metro area to allow the higher frequency Werribee service in the Peaks.

3. All this would not be so bad after 40 years if the Geelong Off-Peak frequency between the Peaks had been increased to at least every 40 minutes .  (Current hourly services with 5 car trains are full and standing on departing North Geelong.)

NB: With the Werribee / Williamstown / Laverton Off-Peak pattern the options for Geelong Off-Peak are Hourly, 40 minutes or 20 minutes.

Hourly is grossly inadequate now, 20 minutes would be extravagant at this time, but it should have moved up to 40 minutes with this tt change. A 40 minute Off-Peak frequency also works OK beyond Geelong with alternate trains terminating at South Geelong and Marshall .
  Speed Minister for Railways

It might actually be better to post links to the press releases than to inaccurately type up a list.
"The Vinelander"
Better still would be to identify some inaccuracies that you see in SteamToStay's post and to illustrate them with quotations from the press-releases.

An exceprt is the best way of evaluating whether each reader is sufficiently interested in an article to follow the link to read the rest.
  Deanodriver Chief Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
* Geelong gets a new 6-car VLocity on the up in morning peak, departing Marshall at 7:08 and arriving at Southern Cross at 8:22 and a down FN set departing Southern Cross at 16:47 for a 17:53 arrival in Geelong.
"SteamtoStay"


And how's that up train going to go with the existing 0717 South Geelong? Chances are it'll be stuck behind it all the way (unless of course that all the services are getting re-done).
  SteamtoStay Chief Commissioner

Location: Building floorplates
And how's [the new 7:08 up ex Marshall] going to go with the existing 0717 South Geelong? Chances are it'll be stuck behind it all the way (unless of course that all the services are getting re-done).
"Deanodriver"

I don't know, but my best guess would be either that the 7:17 will depart South Geelong as soon as the 7:08 ex Marshall gets to Geelong (having shunted from one of the sidings), and/or some reorganisation of stopping patterns, and/or use of the overtaking facilities past Geelong, and/or the 7:17 will be retimetabled to run a few minutes later.
  Deanodriver Chief Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
And how's [the new 7:08 up ex Marshall] going to go with the existing 0717 South Geelong? Chances are it'll be stuck behind it all the way (unless of course that all the services are getting re-done).
"Deanodriver"

I don't know, but my best guess would be either that the 7:17 will depart South Geelong as soon as the 7:08 ex Marshall gets to Geelong (having shunted from one of the sidings), and/or some reorganisation of stopping patterns, and/or use of the overtaking facilities past Geelong, and/or the 7:17 will be retimetabled to run a few minutes later.
"SteamtoStay"


I'd imagine the retimetabling of the whole lot would be in order. After all, if this 0708 is taking 74 minutes to get to Southern Cross (as opposed to 78min of the 0715 Marshall stopper that runs with an N set), it'll be stopping all stations. I doubt there'd be two stopper services and an express within such a short space of time.

Surely what's to happen is that the 0708 VLocity service is meant to replace the 0715 loco-hauled service (higher capacity of six VLos compared to an FN set), with the loco and N set used to create a new service (or simply run the stopper later).

http://www.vline.com.au/maps-stations-stops/lineinfo/geelong.html

Any chance as part of the retimetabling to be able to run the 0643 Geelong from South Geelong or Marshall? After all, as is there's 43 minutes between the 0613 South Geelong and the 0650 flagship (which stops at South Geelong at 0656). Considering how busy South Geelong gets, you'd think another service would be warranted, even with the capacity issues down of Geelong.
  712M Chief Commissioner

The new timetables are now available on the V/Line website.
http://www.vline.com.au/timetables/timetables/upcomingtt.html
  712M Chief Commissioner

Also noted that the 16:47 down Traralgon flagship will now also stop at Bunyip and Longwarry. The last train to Traralgon will depart Melbourne 15 minutes later.

Geelong basically has a new timetable for peak hours.
  Craig Chief Commissioner

Location: Edithvale, VIC
I note there is a substantial increase in the number of trains between South Geelong & Marshall on both weekdays & weekends.

Kind Regards


Craig Smile
  Deanodriver Chief Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
And 40 minute weekday down services between 1-4pm.

That said, if you want to go from South Geelong to Corio in the morning, you'd better be prepared to change trains at Geelong.
  alstom_888m Chief Commissioner

Location:
I don't think anyone ever does that somehow...
  Sir Thomas Bent Minister for Railways

Location: Banned
I don't think anyone ever does that somehow...
"alstom_888m"
Well, no-one with their own teeth, anyway.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

The new Geelong/Werribee line timetable re-write is actually quite an improvement for both VLP and Metro pax given the constraints of the existing infrastructure and the need to provide extra peak trips .

VLP have been very devious in putting out the usual spin and also releasing the full tt detail just ahead of the easter break hoping it will slip beneath the radar, as far as perceived nasties .

VR spin -  most trains move a few minutes and some trains have extended travel times by a few minutes .

The REALITY is :
* Most peak trains moved and by up t0 9 even 20 minutes !
* Many trains have extended travel times around 6 minutes.
* Many peak period trains have altered stopping sequences.
*  The Up morning Peak is markedly different to the existing tt.

VLP should have sold the positives of this timetable instead of being so mischievious .

The positives:
PM :  40 minute frequency from 1320 to 1600, then 20 minutes to 1640, then 10 minutes to 1730 then 20 minutes to 1900 .

Altered disciplined stopping patterns in the Peak periods that spread the loadings better over the available services .

As far as practicable operationally all trains to/from Marshall .

Geelong line travellers need to study the new tt carefully or they could be in for some shocks; like 0646 Up goes from Ltd Stops to SAS and takes 12 longer . The morning Up Peak ex Marshall & South Geelong from 0615 onwards is completely different.

Overall a very good effort at a new timetable that maximizes peak hour capacity for both Metro & VLP passengers .  Something VLP should have sold more positively.
  RATLSNAKE Chief Train Controller



Geelong line travellers need to study the new tt carefully or they could be in for some shocks; like 0646 Up goes from Ltd Stops to SAS and takes 12 longer . The morning Up Peak ex Marshall & South Geelong from 0615 onwards is completely different.
"kuldalai"


No I think you're already confused.

The new 0646 is the current 0656 SAS service.  All they've done is pushed this service back 10 mins.  I've been catching it for years.

You're thinging of the current 0643 Ltd Stopper.  This service will soon be pushed back to make it the 0630.  So as you can see they've not made a Ltd Service to a SAS.

The truth is, they've added bugger all NEW services.  What they HAVE done is reshuffle the times around, for the most part starting trains a LOT earlier than before, and extending the arrival times because they've realised with the congestion that is never going to go away (or until some form of RRL), the old arrival times could never be met.  All this now confirms is that this reduces the chances of compensation, and now guarantees travel from Geelong to Melbourne on paper now takes longer than before.

I welcome improvements, but after studying these new times, I suspect this change will create more issues than improve.  I hope time proves my theory wrong for all commuters' sakes.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
Being from North of the Murray and making a short visit to Geelong, I made the trip from Geelong to Southern Cross and return today, which is probably my first trip on a Victorian Train for about 15 years.

Departure from Geelong was (on-time) at 09:34 on a 5 Car Velocity which stopped All Stations to Werribee, then Newport, Footscray and North Melbourne along the way. The train was quite full from Geelong and there were standees upon departure from Corio. All ran well until approaching Werribee, where we stopped 3 times before the platform itself, thus putting us about 5 minutes down. Similarly, it was a slow crawl from Footscray to North Melbourne, and several stops between North Melbourne and Platform 1 at Southern Cross where arrival was 10 minutes late.

The return was on a 7 Car Velocity (with standees upon departure) departing at 16:40 which ran non-stop between North Melbourne and North Geelong, though we made 4 stops between Platform 6 at Southern Cross and North Melbourne, the first being barely out of the platform and the last must have been with the lead car in the platform at North Melbourne, as I was in the 6th which was under the flyover. After we eventually got away it seemed all OK until we slowed to a crawl approaching Laverton, and thence at low speed until just short of Werribee, after which the fast run ensued to Corio. Arrival at Geelong was 10 minutes late.

I am guessing that the delays around Werribee/Laverton are due to Suburban Trains and that the throat of the approach to Southern Cross is (badly) choked? It seems that there is some slack built into those timetables, for those extra stops and slow running accounted for far more than the 10 minutes delay.

All in all, the service was very good, the (female) conductors both ways informative, the trains themselves clean and seats comfortable and even flyers on the seats (16:40 service) advising of the TT changes. The biggest problem that I could see is getting in and out of Southern Cross, and I can’t blame VLine for that.

Is getting in and out of Southern Cross always like that, or did I chance upon a bad day? I did notice when we departed, that en route to North Melbourne there were 2 stationary Velocity sets inbound about 100 metres apart on an adjacent track.
  RATLSNAKE Chief Train Controller



Is getting in and out of Southern Cross always like that, or did I chance upon a bad day? I did notice when we departed, that en route to North Melbourne there were 2 stationary Velocity sets inbound about 100 metres apart on an adjacent track.
"mikesyd"


Always mate.  Every day, nearly every train I catch.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line


Is getting in and out of Southern Cross always like that, or did I chance upon a bad day? I did notice when we departed, that en route to North Melbourne there were 2 stationary Velocity sets inbound about 100 metres apart on an adjacent track.
"mikesyd"


Always mate.  Every day, nearly every train I catch.
"RATLSNAKE"


Which sums up perfectly my strong advocacy for the RRL, and why the Baillieu government is now supporting the project.

Mike.  

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